Bolas 5
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SkyDekker 1,465
QuoteBut.. . . The government has to intervene! We obviously don't know enough to be able to make our own decisions. We aren't smart enough to decide what is moral and what is not.
Considering the majority of Americans cannot stop themselves from stuffing their mouths and getting overweight and obese, you as a nation have already proven being unable to make healthy decisions for yourself.
QuoteQuoteBut.. . . The government has to intervene! We obviously don't know enough to be able to make our own decisions. We aren't smart enough to decide what is moral and what is not.
Considering the majority of Americans cannot stop themselves from stuffing their mouths and getting overweight and obese, you as a nation have already proven being unable to make healthy decisions for yourself.
Define overweight. While you are at it, tell us what temperature the Earth is supposed to be.
rushmc 23
QuoteQuoteQuoteBut.. . . The government has to intervene! We obviously don't know enough to be able to make our own decisions. We aren't smart enough to decide what is moral and what is not.
Considering the majority of Americans cannot stop themselves from stuffing their mouths and getting overweight and obese, you as a nation have already proven being unable to make healthy decisions for yourself.
Define overweight. While you are at it, tell us what temperature the Earth is supposed to be.
"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln
Marinus 0
QuoteDefine overweight.
"a medical condition in which excess body fat has accumulated to the extent that it may have an adverse effect on health, leading to reduced life expectancy and/or increased health problems."
And there's statistics that show the US is one of the fattest nations on earth.
Shotgun 1
QuoteQuoteQuoteI don't disagree. All "marriages" should be civil unions in the eyes of the government. If a couple want to get to have their civil union ceremony performed in a church that's between them and the church. They can also call it marriage or whatever else they want.
What is the difference between a legal marriage and a legal civil union? Aside from the fact that other countries might not recognize the "civil union" . . .
Right now, if people don't want the government involved, they can do whatever ceremony and call their relationship whatever they want to call it. You can choose not to have the government involved in your relationship. (Well, unless you split up and your ex decides to involve them.)
And it's not even on the table to change all legal marriages to civil unions. So for now it makes more sense to extend the privileges/responsibilities of marriage to same-sex couples.
Unfortunately there are still certain rights, particularly with healthcare, that are only given to married people. There are also certain tax benefits in some situations.
I meant what is the difference to you? It sounded like you were saying that there should only be civil unions recognized by the government, and that the government should not be involved in "marriage." Or did I misunderstand?
rehmwa 2
QuoteI meant what is the difference to you? It sounded like you were saying that there should only be civil unions recognized by the government, and that the government should not be involved in "marriage." Or did I misunderstand?
I think it's an important distinction. If we only acknowledged the legal benefits aspect for any type partnering as a civil union, then the focus is simple in terms of promoting equal rights between individuals. The government should ONLY be involved in the types of things that a couple individuals could generate with a simple legal document anyway. These discussion seem to generate productive discussion.
the term marriage is goofy, in most of the arguments I hear are emotional and snippy and otherwise, and talk about who's sleeping with who, or some vague notion that it'll magically create respect or acceptance - this is all subjective and not really the point of the government involvement. It's really nobody's business.
I don't normally respect the semantics that goes on here, but this argument really does seem to take on distinctly different personalities depending on which term is used
In the meantime, any two people (or three, or whatever) that have chosen to make a partnership, but don't yet have the legal ability to get it sanctioned by the government, are complete and total idiots if they don't go get a lawyer to layout a contract to approve things like hospital visits and power of attorney, and wills, etc etc etc etc.
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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants
rehmwa 2
QuoteAnd it's not even on the table to change all legal marriages to civil unions.
it's a shame since that's the real solution
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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants
Shotgun 1
QuoteQuoteAnd it's not even on the table to change all legal marriages to civil unions.
it's a shame since that's the real solution
Not really a solution. Mitt Romney has stated that he is even against same-sex civil unions, and I'm sure a lot of people agree with him. North Carolina just voted to ban same-sex civil unions as well.
I don't buy the semantics crap.
I've always seen "marriage" as a legal thing. If others choose to see it as religious, then that's their business, and there's no reason to get the government involved if they don't want to.
rehmwa 2
QuoteNot really a solution. Mitt Romney has stated that he is even against same-sex civil unions, and I'm sure a lot of people agree with him. North Carolina just voted to ban same-sex civil unions as well.
well, I disagree with Mitt and NC on this one. it's not really the business of a large group or government on how two people want to legally contract their support to each other.
you can buy the semantics stuff or not - I also see it as a legal thing, but we're in the minority - that's the whole point. the fact that others do make it 'crap', as you note, is why it IS a problem
unless you have the power to take people's emotional reaction to a word (that's people of BOTH sides of the argument make it an 'emotional' issue, not 'religious', as you state) out of the issue
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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants
Shotgun 1
QuoteI also see it as a legal thing, but we're in the minority
Going to get a marriage license from the government is pretty much acknowledging marriage as a legal thing. So everyone who is legally married must recognize the legal aspect of it, whether they chose to have a religious ceremony or not. (If it wasn't important for the government to recognize their marriage, then why bother with the license and such?)
Bolas 5
QuoteQuoteQuoteAnd it's not even on the table to change all legal marriages to civil unions.
it's a shame since that's the real solution
Not really a solution. Mitt Romney has stated that he is5 even against same-sex civil unions, and I'm sure a lot of people agree with him. North Carolina just voted to ban same-sex civil unions as well.
I don't buy the semantics crap.
I've always seen "marriage" as a legal thing. If others choose to see it as religious, then that's their business, and there's no reason to get the government involved if they don't want to.
It boils down to this. Gay couples just want the same rights and privileges as heterosexual married couples. The only way to currently get that is being married.
There are 3 ways to accomplish this
* Let them marry. Easiest solution but does not reform outdated marriage laws.
* Give them ALL rights but make it a separate process. "Separate but equal", sounds familiar.
* Reform marriage laws so all are treated consistently by the government. Part of this might be conversion of all marriages to civil unions. This would take the most work, but would prevent similar issues in the future.
Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting
If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.
If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.
QuoteQuoteDefine overweight.
"a medical condition in which excess body fat has accumulated to the extent that it may have an adverse effect on health, leading to reduced life expectancy and/or increased health problems."
And there's statistics that show the US is one of the fattest nations on earth.
So what! You skinny Euros look like you have Bulimia but we don't bash you for it. Probably because your governments don't yet feed you and wipe your chins.....yet.
Unfortunately there are still certain rights, particularly with healthcare, that are only given to married people. There are also certain tax benefits in some situations.
If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.
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