NFL and NHL Players Unions and League Discipline

[lawrocket 3]

A couple of days ago, the NHL Players Association filed an appeal on behalf of Raffi Torres, who was suspended for 25 games for an illegal hit that resulted in Marion Hossa leaving the ice on a stretcher.

In football, the NFL Players Association has filed a grievance with the NFL over the suspensions of former and current Saints players, including the one-year suspension of Jonathan Vilma, for participating in a bounty scheme where rewards were allegedly put out for injuring opposing players.

This is a spot where I am left scratching my head at unions. The Players Associations are there to stand up for their members. Unions have traditionally been involved in workplace safety. So what I'm wondering is why isn't the union doing something to punish people who are out injuring its members? Is the NHLPA putting Raffi Torres ahead of Hossa?

And the NFLPA? There's a lot being mentioned about head injuries, etc. Does the NFLPA - who is presumptively tasked with keeping the best interests of the players in mind - have any responsibility in terms of protecting its players?

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[SkyDekker 1,465]

Suspended players don't make money. No money means no union dues.

[rushmc 23]

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A couple of days ago, the NHL Players Association filed an appeal on behalf of Raffi Torres, who was suspended for 25 games for an illegal hit that resulted in Marion Hossa leaving the ice on a stretcher.

In football, the NFL Players Association has filed a grievance with the NFL over the suspensions of former and current Saints players, including the one-year suspension of Jonathan Vilma, for participating in a bounty scheme where rewards were allegedly put out for injuring opposing players.

This is a spot where I am left scratching my head at unions. The Players Associations are there to stand up for their members. Unions have traditionally been involved in workplace safety. So what I'm wondering is why isn't the union doing something to punish people who are out injuring its members? Is the NHLPA putting Raffi Torres ahead of Hossa?

And the NFLPA? There's a lot being mentioned about head injuries, etc. Does the NFLPA - who is presumptively tasked with keeping the best interests of the players in mind - have any responsibility in terms of protecting its players?

the union has a legal requirement to do so

same if someone is fired for good reason

The union has no choice

They can sit on it and then withdraw it later if they want to

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[normiss 906]

We have previously decided that unions are bad.

[JohnRich 4]

There seems to be a conflict between protecting the players from bodily harm, and from protecting the player's income. They shouldn't be putting the income of rule-breakers above the health of their victims.

[lawrocket 3]

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the union has a legal requirement to do so

same if someone is fired for good reason

The union has no choice

I understand that totally. It's why this is in Speakers Corner versus "Legal Memo."

What do we do when the enemy is within?

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[kallend 2,182]

IMNSHO, Torres should be in custody, charged with assault/battery.

The Saints coach who ran the bounty scheme should be in custody too, along with any player who received money for deliberately causing injury. Plus a bunch of others who were accessories before, during and after the fact.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[rushmc 23]

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the union has a legal requirement to do so

same if someone is fired for good reason

The union has no choice

I understand that totally. It's why this is in Speakers Corner versus "Legal Memo."

What do we do when the enemy is within?

They have created their own catch 22

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 23]

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IMNSHO, Torres should be in custody, charged with assault.

The Saints coach who ran the bounty scheme should be in custody too, along with any player who received money for deliberately causing injury. Plus a bunch of others who were accessories before, during and after the fact.

One rule I think they should have is the following

If any player, injures another through and action that is positively shown to be flagrant, he will be out as long as the player he hurts.

If the insured’s career is ended, so is the offenders career.

I always thought this since McMann (for the Bears who I still hate) was injured when he was thrown to the ground well after the play was over and there was no doubt it was a flagrant penalty. McMann was out for a long time but in reality, it ended his career

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Andy9o8 3]

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What do we do when the enemy is within?

I believe the term is "seppuku".

[popsjumper 2]

Go ahead and shoot me.
For the first time ever, I totally agree with JohnRich, Kallend, AND RushMC.



This is a beer event, I know.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[kelpdiver 2]

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The Saints coach who ran the bounty scheme should be in custody too, along with any player who received money for deliberately causing injury.

The entire point of the pass rusher is to get to the QB and beat him into submission. How is that not deliberate and if a specific injury occurs, the cause?

The McMahon crippling was a pretty blatant event...no disputing the play was over and not justifiable. Same is perhaps true for most of the rolling up on the ankle hits. But the difference between a valid "QB hit during throw" to "late hit" is a very fine margin when you have 300lb guys who run the 40 in about 4.5 seconds. A lot of plays are right on that margin and will be difficult to make a criminal judgement. Hockey is much harder, given it already has the enforcer as a team role.

[kelpdiver 2]

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Suspended players don't make money. No money means no union dues.

But injured players don't get their contracts renewed and also pay no dues. Few suspensions last more than a few games. Career ending hits are forever. They will be replaced with next year's fodder, I mean draft, but at lower salaries.

(begging the question - what are dues - flat rate, percentage of salary, ?)

[kallend 2,182]

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The Saints coach who ran the bounty scheme should be in custody too, along with any player who received money for deliberately causing injury.

The entire point of the pass rusher is to get to the QB and beat him into submission. How is that not deliberate and if a specific injury occurs, the cause?

The McMahon crippling was a pretty blatant event...no disputing the play was over and not justifiable. Same is perhaps true for most of the rolling up on the ankle hits. But the difference between a valid "QB hit during throw" to "late hit" is a very fine margin when you have 300lb guys who run the 40 in about 4.5 seconds. A lot of plays are right on that margin and will be difficult to make a criminal judgement. Hockey is much harder, given it already has the enforcer as a team role.

I can differentiate between injuries incidental to the nature of the game, and injuries DELIBERATELY inflicted. I'm sure you can too.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[kelpdiver 2]

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I can differentiate between injuries incidental to the nature of the game, and injuries DELIBERATELY inflicted. I'm sure you can too.

what percentage of the time? 30? You won't even be able to identify which Saints caused injuries were deliberate versus intentional.

You've been asked this sort of thing often before, and never able to actually codify it beyond "I know what I sees."

[kallend 2,182]

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I can differentiate between injuries incidental to the nature of the game, and injuries DELIBERATELY inflicted. I'm sure you can too.

what percentage of the time? 30? You won't even be able to identify which Saints caused injuries were deliberate versus intentional.

You've been asked this sort of thing often before, and never able to actually codify it beyond "I know what I sees."

Easy - the ones that received bounty payouts. Also the coaches that ran the bounty system.

And yes, I DO know what I see.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[kelpdiver 2]

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what percentage of the time? 30? You won't even be able to identify which Saints caused injuries were deliberate versus intentional.

You've been asked this sort of thing often before, and never able to actually codify it beyond "I know what I sees."

Easy - the ones that received bounty payouts. Also the coaches that ran the bounty system.

They ALL received bounty payouts. But Favre was hit numerous times in that game, and only a handful of them were suspect. Outside of the Saints, there have been blatant hits that did not include a predeclared bonus.

Maybe you should stick to sports with flopping.

[kallend 2,182]

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what percentage of the time? 30? You won't even be able to identify which Saints caused injuries were deliberate versus intentional.

You've been asked this sort of thing often before, and never able to actually codify it beyond "I know what I sees."

Easy - the ones that received bounty payouts. Also the coaches that ran the bounty system.

They ALL received bounty payouts.

EXACTLY.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.