Suicide v. Self-Euthanasia

[loumeinhart 0]

I don't have an opinion on this but I find it interesting. Thought I'd share this about a European author who made a documentary after being diagnosed with ahlzeimers. The ending is pretty crazy, 2 drinks at Dignitas

yikes - I couldn't do it

[kallend 2,182]

What I don't get is that these players get away with stuff because it's "sport" that would get them arrested, convicted and jailed if they did it outside the arena/stadium.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[rehmwa 2]

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What I don't get is that these players get away with stuff because it's "sport" that would get them arrested, convicted and jailed if they did it outside the arena/stadium.

recall the hockey player that skated up behind the other player and swung his stick like a bat at his head. I don't recall if the guy on the other end was permanently disabled or killed. And they thought it ok to just "keep it in the league to deal with"

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[SkyDekker 1,465]

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recall the hockey player that skated up behind the other player and swung his stick like a bat at his head. I don't recall if the guy on the other end was permanently disabled or killed. And they thought it ok to just "keep it in the league to deal with"

Do you mean McSorley on Brashear?

Brashear had a long career of busting heads and dirty hits after taking that stick to the head.

By the way, that incident did end up in court in BC. it ended McSorley's "career" in the NHL.

Brashear went on to fight in MMA after his NHL career ended.

[killler 2]

I can't understand how a person could even ask that in the first place???

It's all part of the games that they want to play....
Don't want to get hit with a stick, checked or just plain old beat-up.. Don't play with crazy guys skating around a hockey rink...

Don't want to get hit by a 350+ guy running at full speed and have your dick knocked in the dirt... Don't play football....

Don't want to be half a retard later in life... Don't stand in a ring for 45 minutes getting hit in the head ...

No person could not know that there is a heavy price to pay for the call of competition ... (from sky's call) To go a field, And hang ones shield... The call of competition....

My two boys raced motocross from the ripe old age of 12 & 14.... Broken leg, a broken arm, 2 big knock out jump crashes... Can't even count the sprains and bruises.... Years of racing and a bunch of 2nd and 3rd places.... One 1st... They are 23 and 25 today and still talk about every race like it was last weekend... They would not trade those times for all the tea in china....

Killler.....

[livendive 8]

I have no real moral qualms with anyone taking their own life, but I find it pretty depressing when its clear that they only did so due to a distorted view of their problems. A 14 year old killing herself over facebook posts or her boyfriend showing everyone the pictures she sent him is fundamentally different than a terminally ill person facing a pain-filled battle they are likely to lose, or a guilt-ridden person who simply can't forgive themself for harming/killing someone. I wouldn't care to deprive the latter two their choice, but it does make it tougher to catch the teenager in time to prevent an irreversible overreaction.

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[livendive 8]

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What I don't get is that these players get away with stuff because it's "sport" that would get them arrested, convicted and jailed if they did it outside the arena/stadium.

Agreed, for the most part. A pitcher throwing at a hitter would be tough to prove, but there are plenty of clear-cut assaults in basketball and football (though I have no idea how they'd relate to suicide vs. euthanasia)

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[davjohns 1]

Also agree. When someone runs at the pitcher from the dugout, there is an assault. Why isn't the guy lead off the field in cuffs? I saw a clip from a basketball game recently where a player obviously threw a nasty elbow into another player's head while the ball was not in play. I think the assaulted player suffered substantial injury. Why didn't that attacker walk off the court in cuffs? It would send a pretty good message to all of those kids who were watching. Might even make them think twice before doing the same thing on the court.

So many people hold these guys up as roll models because they play a child's game well and get paid lots of money for it. I have never understood that. I'm sure some of them are genuinely good people. But nobody would have ever heard of Tim Tebow if he was the same nice guy, but picked up your garbage once a week.

I know it just wouldnt be right to kill all the stupid people that we meet..

But do you think it would be appropriate to just remove all of the warning labels and let nature take its course.

[GeorgiaDon 385]

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Taking your life because you are unhappy is just selfish. The damage you do to the people who love and care about you is inexcusable, and sets them up to follow suit.

So, you are telling me that how long my life goes on is up to others? Are you telling me that what I do with my life makes others do the same?

"Excuse me, loved one....can I ask to have control over my own life, please?"

The "damage done to those loved ones" is their own damned problem.

If they had the common sense to realize that you are going to eventually die anyway, what the hell difference does it make when you die?

"Oh dear, he went and died earlier than I wanted. WhatamIgonnadonow?"

And particularly if the guy was sick or miserable, how about a little compassion for him? Are YOU so selfish as to make him live a fucked up life just so YOU don't get "damage done" to your little psyche?


Boo-freakin'-hoo.

Hey Andy,

Over the years, I've known three people who've had a teenage kid commit suicide. One came home to find her daughter had hung herself from the shower nozzle, and slit her wrists for good measure. Not one of those parents has come close to being the same person they were, even years later. In fact, for as long as I was in touch with them I'd say they were incapable of feeling any joy about anything, only deep and pervasive sadness.

It's too bad I wasn't able to put them in touch with you at the time. I'm sure your little pep talk would have done them a world of good.

I thought you had a kid, but maybe I was mistaken. Yep, must have been.

Don

_____________________________________
Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996)
“Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

[kallend 2,182]

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I can't understand how a person could even ask that in the first place???

It's all part of the games that they want to play....
.

Nope. Assault and battery with intent to cause injury are NOT part of any game.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Gravitymaster 0]

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I can't understand how a person could even ask that in the first place???

It's all part of the games that they want to play....
.

Nope. Assault and battery with intent to cause injury are NOT part of any game.

It is with hockey, boxing and cage fighting. That's what the fans come to see and that's what those sports are designed to do. Next you will be contending that Nascar Drivers pass a safe driving course because crashes aren't part of that activity either.

[popsjumper 2]

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Over the years, I've known three people ......

You may have noticed a slight difference in what we were talking about and what you are bringing up.

You may think that the extremes should define the the spectrum.

You may think that the entire world is black and white.

Surprise DON! It's all grey area!!!!!
Condolences to your three friends.

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It's too bad I wasn't able to put them in touch with you at the time. I'm sure your little pep talk would have done them a world of good.

It also too bad that you aren't on a traveling talk tour trying to convince people that no matter what was going on in their life, or the lack thereof, that they have to suck it up and tough it out 'till the very end. I'm sure they would appreciate that.
(See? I can play the sarcasm game, too!

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thought you had a kid, but maybe I was mistaken. Yep, must have been.

Yep. I have two. Your point is relevant to this conversation just how?

Oh...I get it. I would feel sad if my kid did himself in and I would see how wrong my position is. Is that it?
Wrong, Don. Sad, yes. Changed, no.

I resent your intrusion into my life in this regard. You handle yours as you see fit. Don't tell me how to live, or not live, mine. Thank you, sir.

You obviously do not understand what I said. You missed the context. I'll point it out for you.

In a nutshell:
My decision. Make no laws telling me I have to live a worthless (in MY viewpoint, not yours) life.

What you inserted is the assumption that I said do not try to help someone over their hump. Bad assumption, my friend.

And BTW, before you go there, that "help" doesn't include locking them up, or some such, as a preventative.

"Oh sure...you can do it if you like but you'll have to get out of the straightjacket before you do."
BS

And it damned sure doesn't include forcing people to die in massive pain, physical or mental, as some would have it.

People crucified Jacob Kevorkian. Let me be more precise...busy-body, I'll-tell-you-you-have--to-suck-it-up-and-die-in-pain people crucified Jacob Kevorkian who was helping people do it (whichever you wanted to call it, Suicide or Self-Euthanasia) painlessly.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[lawrocket 3]

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It is with hockey, boxing and cage fighting

Not so much with hockey, where intent to injure is a no-no. Violence is part of the game in a collision sport such as hockey. That's why McSorley got pinched, as did Bertuzzi when he broke Moore's neck.

Boxing and cage fighting are not assault and battery because there is consent. Assault and battery are, by definition, non-consensual touchings. This is why boxing is not a crime.

On the other hand, there are limits. I still don't see why Tyson wasn't pinched for mayhem when he chewed off Holyfield's ear. biting of the ear exceeds consent. However, when Shane Tyner's cauliflower ear was knocked off by an elbow during an MMA fight, it was NOT a battery because an elbow was within the scope of consent.

The hardest thing about prosecuting these things is that it can be a fine line. Let's say Kenneth Crowder INTENDED to detach Tyner's ear from his head. Still no battery or assault if he used his elbow. Had he used his teeth, then it would be a battery. Same effect. Same intent. Different methods - one consensual and the other one non-consensual.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[popsjumper 2]

Don, I did not intend my post to come across as angry. I was trying to be forceful, not angry.
All's well in La-La land.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[popsjumper 2]

'Rocket, get the thread back on topic. It's about Suicide v. Self-Euthanasia, not sports activities. Start another thread for that, eh?

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[GeorgiaDon 385]

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Don, I did not intend my post to come across as angry. I was trying to be forceful, not angry.
All's well in La-La land.

I'm glad to hear all's well in la-la land.

I do regret that I apparently misunderstood you. Since you were responding to a post about someone committing suicide because they were "unhappy", and you said:
"The "damage done to those loved ones" is their own damned problem.

If they had the common sense to realize that you are going to eventually die anyway, what the hell difference does it make when you die?

"Oh dear, he went and died earlier than I wanted. WhatamIgonnadonow?"
then perhaps you can understand how I missed that you were talking about the special case of a mature adult making a considered decision. I should have recognized that such meanspiritedness would not have been in your character.

Personally, I think that the option for euthanasia should be available, with a few restrictions for people who aren't competent to make such decisions, or who are doing it solely to hurt someone else ("I'm going to die and it's all YOUR fault" kind of thing). I don't get how we can offer our pets a painless way out (put to sleep is a pretty good description), yet we insist people suffer to the bitter end.

Still, this will have a major impact on those who are close to us, and it's incredibly unfair to spring it on them without allowing them any chance to prepare at all. It's just part of making sure ones affairs are in order. The family may disagree with the decision, but the impact will be very different than if they just get a phone call in the middle of the night. Not to mention, leaving your spouse or kids to find your body, then having to clean up the mess.

Don

_____________________________________
Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996)
“Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

[popsjumper 2]

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...then perhaps you can understand how I missed that you were talking about the special case of a mature adult making a considered decision.

Yes, I see that now. Thanks. It was strongly worded in response to those who would only consider their own feelings and neglect to consider the suicide's feelings about the whole thing. A "he's an ass for making me feel this way" sort of thing. Hence the inclusion about sympathy for the suicide guy.

We only disagree on the use of "special case" as applied to mature adults. I would think that the kids in your example were more "special case" than the adults...and that's just going by my gut-feeling on comparative numbers of cases of each

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I should have recognized that such meanspiritedness would not have been in your character.

Thank you.

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Personally, I think that the option for euthanasia should be available, with a few restrictions for people who aren't competent to make such decisions, or who are doing it solely to hurt someone else ("I'm going to die and it's all YOUR fault" kind of thing). I don't get how we can offer our pets a painless way out (put to sleep is a pretty good description), yet we insist people suffer to the bitter end.

I cannot, and would not, argue that point with you.
I don't have any idea how we could make those decisions in the cases of the vengeful. It's just like Kallend and his gun nutter decision-making. How the heck do you do it with any degree of certainty?

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Still, this will have a major impact on those who are close to us, and it's incredibly unfair to spring it on them without allowing them any chance to prepare at all. It's just part of making sure ones affairs are in order. The family may disagree with the decision, but the impact will be very different than if they just get a phone call in the middle of the night. Not to mention, leaving your spouse or kids to find your body, then having to clean up the mess.

Agreed, totally. And I'm sure this is what the other poster meant when he said "selfish" act.

[killler 2]

I just read the post in bonfire about putting down a pet.... The real world way to deal with a sick living thing.. Love and compassion for the affiliated... Why do we not give this to our fellow humans?????

killler....

[davjohns 1]

Am I the only one who sees the humor is discussing this subject with someone bearing the screen name of 'killer'? I don't disagree with him at all. It's just like debating the merits with the Grim Reaper...you have to wonder if he's a truly objective source of reason. :)

I know it just wouldnt be right to kill all the stupid people that we meet..

But do you think it would be appropriate to just remove all of the warning labels and let nature take its course.

[popsjumper 2]

In the words of Achmed......I KEEEEEEEL you!

Hey! Suicide and Self-Euthanasia are useful for population control!

But then again, so is war.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[Marinus 0]

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Hey! Suicide and Self-Euthanasia are useful for population control!

But then again, so is war.

Both war and suicide are mere drops of water in the dessert of Malthusian catastrophe. We really need to develop Super-AIDS for population control, me thinks.

[popsjumper 2]

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Hey! Suicide and Self-Euthanasia are useful for population control!

But then again, so is war.

Both war and suicide are mere drops of water in the dessert of Malthusian catastrophe. We really need to develop Super-AIDS for population control, me thinks.

Nah...too much the long, drawn-out expensive process.

But then again, so is war.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[killler 2]

Stop shipping food and med's to people... If you stop feeding the people that don,t carry their weight the problem would fix it self....

We, As a people waste so much on so-called humanity... When in fact the better plan would be to "remove" the dead weight from the planet ... Let nature take it course, We as a species would have a much better chance....

Killler....