Suicide v. Self-Euthanasia

[Shotgun 1]

I don't know, but I get really annoyed with the old line, "It's a permanent solution to a temporary problem." How the fuck do you know what kind of problem the person was having??? (Not aimed at you, lawrocket.) Chronic pain, physical or mental, shouldn't have to be endured if the person doesn't want to endure it, and if the person has given up on finding a solution. The one thing that we truly own is our own lives, and that's nobody's business.

Though I do hope that once someone has taken on dependents, that they will include that in their consideration of what is worth enduring.

[Southern_Man 0]

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Less of a theory and more what he wrote in his suicide note.

The news reports I've seen were that Seau did not leave a note of any kind.

"What if there were no hypothetical questions?"

[jgoose71 0]

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Less of a theory and more what he wrote in his suicide note.

The news reports I've seen were that Seau did not leave a note of any kind.

I was about to say the same thing. Where did you hear that Quade?

"There is an art, it says, or, rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss."
Life, the Universe, and Everything

[quade 4]

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Less of a theory and more what he wrote in his suicide note.

The news reports I've seen were that Seau did not leave a note of any kind.

Interesting. The first reports I read yesterday said he not only left a note, but supposedly quoted from it about him wanting to leave his brain to science.

Obviously, first reports about almost anything are often wrong, but it's weird that people would just pull that out of their asses.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[lawrocket 3]

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Less of a theory and more what he wrote in his suicide note.

The news reports I've seen were that Seau did not leave a note of any kind.

Interesting. The first reports I read yesterday said he not only left a note, but supposedly quoted from it about him wanting to leave his brain to science.

Obviously, first reports about almost anything are often wrong, but it's weird that people would just pull that out of their asses.

Duerson - who shot himself in the chest - did that. It's suspected that Seau may have had the same idea.

Note - most people who commit suicide do NOT leave notes.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[BillyVance 35]

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Less of a theory and more what he wrote in his suicide note.

The news reports I've seen were that Seau did not leave a note of any kind.

Maybe not, but he did send text messages to his ex wife and 3 children, ending each message with "I love you". The rest of the contents were not disclosed.

"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban

[kelpdiver 2]

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You have the right to get off the ride anytime you want ... For any reason you like...

We have no right to judge a person making the most personal choice ....

We're not necessarily judging here. The discussion is why do we tend to view these two types of deaths very differently.

But to your question, I point back to the topic of teen suicides. Rarely are their situations so bad to warrant this solution. So many problems go away when they are no longer at home, and (hopefully) can make their own living, and thus make their own rules. They just don't know better, and their brains are still in a developing state.

[lawrocket 3]

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I point back to the topic of teen suicides

I find this to be a valid point. Some 15 year-old kid still has little idea about the changes that life can bring. Goodness knows, my life changed a bit from when I was a teenager.

Doug Stanhope had an interesting perspective. That suicide is frowned upon by society but life really isn't for everybody. It's sad when kids kill themselves because they really didn't give it a chance. But then he compared it to a movie. If you've sat through more than half of it and it sucked every second, who's going to blame you for walking out early.

Sure, a comedy bit, but there's a serious point to it.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[kelpdiver 2]

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But then he compared it to a movie. If you've sat through more than half of it and it sucked every second, who's going to blame you for walking out early.

What if it were Springtime for Hitler?

Or more seriously, would if simply putting on a pair of glasses (pharma drugs in context) made the movie viewable and therefore fun?

Very likely a viewpoint problem, but if one's life has sucked for decades, I think he needs to either change his expectations or change the situation. Life should be good at least a lot of the time.

[popsjumper 2]

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Taking your life because you are unhappy is just selfish. The damage you do to the people who love and care about you is inexcusable, and sets them up to follow suit.

So, you are telling me that how long my life goes on is up to others? Are you telling me that what I do with my life makes others do the same?

"Excuse me, loved one....can I ask to have control over my own life, please?"

The "damage done to those loved ones" is their own damned problem.

If they had the common sense to realize that you are going to eventually die anyway, what the hell difference does it make when you die?

"Oh dear, he went and died earlier than I wanted. WhatamIgonnadonow?"

And particularly if the guy was sick or miserable, how about a little compassion for him? Are YOU so selfish as to make him live a fucked up life just so YOU don't get "damage done" to your little psyche?


Boo-freakin'-hoo.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[oldwomanc6 60]

Suicide: Something you do by yourself in the dark. (Because none of the people who love you would support this decision).

Self-Euthanasia: Something you do with your loved ones at your (bed)side. (Because none of the people who love you want to see you do this, but don't want to see suffer any more).

Either way:

lisa
WSCR 594
FB 1023
CBDB 9

[crotalus01 0]

Euthanasia = murder. Self euthanasia = suicide. My opinion. As to the morality (or lack of), I chose not to judge - I am not in that person's shoes, and honestly I do not want to be.
Again, my opinion - I know life is complicated. I simply chose to live my life according to my beliefs, which would not allow me either option regardless of the circumstances (note - I do not consider DNR and life support decisions to be either, as in both cases you would be kept alive through artificial means).
Flame away....
Edit to add I do find it odd that as a society we consider euthanasia for animals acceptable (for a variety of reasons including being "unwanted" or for shelter overcrowding) but euthanasia for humans is extremely taboo for most people. I suppose it may have to do with the common belief in a human soul? Anyways, if you want to really complicate things, I am very much pro-death penalty

As for me and my house, we will serve the LORD...

[davjohns 1]

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You have the right to get off the ride anytime you want ... For any reason you like...

We have no right to judge a person making the most personal choice ....

killler....

I think we first need to decide if we let a guy who calls himself 'killer' participate in the discussion.... :)

Just kidding around.

I acutally tend to agree with this. If you decide your life sucks and you want to quit, how can society justify making you hang around? I understand we could argue that we invested money in this person's education and such and want a return through their work, but we don't make this argument with lots of people on welfare. So long as you make arrangements for disposition of your assets and body / don't leave a bunch of debt / don't harm anyone else, I can't see arguing the case. Now, if the person is merely afflicted by temporary circumstances, I can justify talking them out of it or doing something to defeat their plan until they come around. But that's a very difficult call sometimes.

I know it just wouldnt be right to kill all the stupid people that we meet..

But do you think it would be appropriate to just remove all of the warning labels and let nature take its course.

[davjohns 1]

This discussion is actually bringing up lots of thoughts for me. One of them is the theory that the ability to destroy something is the ultimate power over it. If I don't have the ability (right) to end my life, whose life is it? How much control am I going to be allowed over my life by other people?

If I have the ability to be a physician and find a cure for cancer, but I want to be a football player, do you get to make the choice for me? If you think what I am doing with my life is a waste, do you get to make the decision? Seems like a slippery slope to me.

I know it just wouldnt be right to kill all the stupid people that we meet..

But do you think it would be appropriate to just remove all of the warning labels and let nature take its course.

[lawrocket 3]

I can easily argue both sides of the issue. Because I have a lot of belief in both sides of the issue.

I was, I think, limiting it to public perspective as opposed to the legal stuff. More of the moral/philosophical. Look at Socrates - he had the opportunity to escape death but chose to die and willingly committed suicide (there was no Kool Aid back then, but he drank the hemlock). Socrates himself thought that life in exile. Additionally, Socrates thought that it was wiser to die on terms he could accept and even do himself than live a life without being able to question people.

I will also go to Adam Smith's Theory of Moral Sentiments. Part of his book described that a person may sympathize with another person but, contrary to Bill Clinton's assertion, cannot feel another person's pain. We really cannot KNOW what a person feels, because it is sensory and sensory cannot be transmitted - only the perceptions can be communicated and they are subject to interpretation.

In a sense, suicide can be done for many reasons. There's ceremonial suicide. There's political suicide (self-immolation has been used) and even Socrates' "Fuck You" suicide. On the other hand, there are suicides to escape life, and as Adam Smith wrote, we cannot ever KNOW what each person is feeling.

Socrates, however, defended his suicide as being the will of the state, to which he voluntarily subjected himself. here in the US, if a person is a suicide threat, we take the person to a jail/hospital to prevent that person from offing himself or herself. Should the state have the right? I am torn on this.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[Marinus 0]

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Should the state have the right? I am torn on this.

If someone is a suicide treat, a professional should asses if he/she is able to make that decision, and if that's the case I don't think society has the right to keep someone alive against their will. Yeah, I know, it's one hell of a task to actually decide if someone is able to make a decision to take their life.

[JerryBaumchen 1,473]

Hi Marinus,

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Should the state have the right? I am torn on this . . . If someone is a suicide treat, a professional should asses if he/she is able to make that decision

I am no expert on the Roman Empire but many, many years ago I read that suicide was illegal in ancient Rome. However, one could go before the Senate and petition to take their own life. If the Senate did a thumbs up, you were good to proceed. If they did a thumbs down, you were not allowed to take your own life.

I always thought that they had the thumb thingy backwards.



JerryBaumchen

[killler 2]

It's " KILLLER " not killer.... The extra L lets you know I mean it... Been known as killler for over 35 yrs in the sport...... The students always had a little fear in their eyes when heard "KILLLER" was their jumpmaster.....

Ok... If you look at life as some special thing that a GOD or HIGHER POWER gave to us, Then all life , From a person down to a flea should all be worth the same...

If you look at life as just a state of matter, Something that just by chance has come about and is not special at all.... Then it has no more value in one life form then another...

We have no way of knowing the pain or sadness that a person feels... We like to judge others using our past experience as a model... But people are not the same and two people in the very same boat, living out the same thing , Walk away with two totally different outcomes... Things that one person shakes off , will haunt the other till the end of time...

So... Who am I to judge how much pain or sadness a person should endure, before it's to much... To me life is worth living as long as " I " think it is... When the time comes to get off the roller coaster it's every man for himself... your life is yours... To thy own self be true....

Killler....

[ManagingPrime 0]

It seems that it's a grey issue, but I am inclined to believe that it is very black and white.

As someone who has experienced deep depression for long periods of time (largely in my teens) I understand how the desire to die can be stronger than the will to live and I view the ability to make the choice to die as one of our most basic freedoms. From that point, if you believe in freedom you can't be against someones right to commit suicide.

One day, at one of my darkest moments, I adopted the view point of Albert Camus/Bill Hicks and realized that life is absolutely absurd and can be quite entertaining even at the lowest points..."just a ride" if you will. With that realization I immediately came out of my depression and have never experienced any depression remotely like it since. From my current perspective suicide seems simple minded in many instances, but it's at unalienable right in any case.

It seems to me that the arguments against suicide have either a religious or societal component (or both). Furthermore, it seems to me that those individuals believe we do not hold title to our own lives..."it's not up to you, think about God, your family, society, etc.". Weak-sauce.

[Marinus 0]

I can see how the thumb signals would be confusing.

What I meant that I think it's not right to lock someone up who's completely sane (or probably even: sane enough) and pondering suicide, to protect them from themselves. One of the scarier things I can think off, is being kept alive against my will.

[rwieder 0]

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Less of a theory and more what he wrote in his suicide note.

Jr. left no suicide note. He did text his family and told them "I love you" The other football player that shot himself in the chest so his brain could be studied was ex bears great Dave Duerson. He did leave a note behind requesting his brain be studied.

-Richard-
"You're Holding The Rope And I'm Taking The Fall"

[killler 2]

Being speakers corner, I'll freely say.... A football player that has played & been paid a very good pile of money to do so... Has no right to bitch about head injuries and pain later in life....

It's like a prostitute complaining that her vagina is loose ....

killler....

[rwieder 0]

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Being speakers corner, I'll freely say.... A football player that has played & been paid a very good pile of money to do so... Has no right to bitch about head injuries and pain later in life....

I seriously doubt that Dave Duerson, or Jr. Seau are in any condition to "BITCH" about anything. Suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem, don't do it. Troy Aikman suffered 7 concussions before retiring, and the concusions were the reason he retired. Earl Campbell is a vegetable because of all of the physical punishment he suffered playing college and pro football. Muhhamud Ali doesn't even know his own name because of all of the physical abuse he suffered during his prestigous boxing carreer. None of them have cried whined, pissed about or moaned and groaned about their physical condition. They simply want to do what they can for the future of the sports they contributed to through the physical punishment they endured while participating in their perspective sports to help the development of new gear to prevent injuries. I played football durin grade school & High School, I had my bell rung a few times, but back then the ideals were very much different then. We were actually coached how to fuck people up. I actually feel bad about a few of the things I participated in, breaking legs, ankles, etc...But if we didn't do as we were told, YIKES. It was still that way when my sons played ball there, old habits die hard. Thus the New orleans Sains debackle.

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It's like a prostitute complaining that her vagina is loose ....

What brought this thought to you little pea sized brain? Bad form.

-Richard-
"You're Holding The Rope And I'm Taking The Fall"

[davjohns 1]

I'm pretty sure Killer was referring to how the press is bringing up brain damage and the NFL "responsibility" to take care of former players.

I know it just wouldnt be right to kill all the stupid people that we meet..

But do you think it would be appropriate to just remove all of the warning labels and let nature take its course.

[killler 2]

Then they can sit on the porch with the puppies.... You want to play. You pay, That is life....

You can't have 250/350 lbs crashing in to one another and not get hurt... Football is getting to be a JOKE..... They throw a flag for just a plain old good hit.... Even players are starting to say "What the Fuck you want me to do ? Let him catch the ball...
They should just change it to flag football.... Then it will be safe,...

As you can tell... Life does not hold some holy/special place in my mind or heart.... You need to stop trying to run other peoples lives and just worry about yours..

These players make huge piles of money and then piss it all away... Then cry how they didn't know you got fucked up playing the game... I know a old redskin player from the early 60's and he said the new players are a bunch of pussys and way over paid... He had a (like most other players) a real job in the off season...

Now their all set, No more troubles...

Killler...