Marinus 0 #26 April 30, 2012 Quote Quote the response to the Muslim protesters was at a 3rd grade level at best. Period. How should they have responded to them? http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=Xsj1UWol7l8#t=61s This would be an option, but it would be very hard to make the crowd chant this. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
muff528 3 #27 April 30, 2012 Quote Well, you entered the discussion by suggesting there's no real difference between fundies screaming all kinds of hateful stuff, and the atheists, so what do you expect I think? Nope. Only those who were outside doing the adolescent-like yelling and name-calliing Quote....QuoteYou are right in that folks getting together discussing religion and politics are not a "political entity". A convention organized to advocate an ideology and to effect public policy does represent a political entity whether it is held in the US or in Bumfukt, Egypt or in Oz. 1) What happened to "two people discussing a feral cat problem is a political entity?" I meant that they would be discussing a community issue and a course of action to be taken ...not just a couple of folks passing time discussing the yin and yang of having free-range cats roam the neighborhood. Local politics. Small scale, but politics none the less. Quote2) For something to be political there needs to be more direct meddling in politics. An atheist convention would be more comparable with a religious service. I think we have differing opinions of what is or is not "political" activity. (So, is organized atheism a religion ...or religion-like?) Quote3) I'm pretty sure they're considered blasphemy in Bumfukt, Egypt and in Oz there's only one political entity and it isn't an atheist convention. Yet, various opposing, "blasphemous" ideologies or "political entities" do exist in Bumfukt and a convention might do them some good (if they dared). Or they could just continue to live under tyranny. Their choice. Quote QuoteWhat "religious stuff" is there to discuss (in an official capacity at a Global Atheist Convention) if not the religious "stuff" of non-atheists. They don't have their own "religious stuff" to talk about ...do they? Atheism is by it's very nature antagonistic, it can't possibly exist without theism, so yes, most of what's commonly considered to be atheistic lore is refuting religion. And your point is...? ...likewise, much of the lore of just about any given religion is refuting the lore of other religions. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
muff528 3 #28 April 30, 2012 QuoteQuote the response to the Muslim protesters was at a 3rd grade level at best. Period. How should they have responded to them? I thought they were supposed to be inside having meetings and listening to speakers ...like the adult attendees. Why empower the protesters? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marinus 0 #29 April 30, 2012 Quote Nope. Only those who were outside doing the adolescent-like yelling and name-calliing So yelling "Islam is a cancer" and "Yay, tortured muslims Quote I think we have differing opinions of what is or is not "political" activity. (So, is organized atheism a religion ...or religion-like?) Apparently we have, but then again, politics is one of those things that's hard (if not impossible) to define. Just count your blessings we're not discussing art. Organized atheism is rare, but it can be religion-like, LaVeyan Satanism would be an example of this. I've even encountered an atheist sect. And there's of course state atheism which was every bit as awful as state religion. Quote Yet, various opposing, "blasphemous" ideologies or "political entities" do exist in Bumfukt and a convention might do them some good (if they dared). Or they could just continue to live under tyranny. Their choice. I doubt if it would do them some good. I don't know if atheism is illegal in Egypt, but I don't think it would be a good idea to come out of the closet if you're one. And, if you're small minority under tyranny there's not that much choice. Quote ...likewise, much of the lore of just about any given religion is refuting the lore of other religions. That's not true, I doubt, for example, if more then 1% of the contents of the bible is about other religions being wrong. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bolas 5 #30 April 30, 2012 QuoteQuoteQuote the response to the Muslim protesters was at a 3rd grade level at best. Period. How should they have responded to them? I thought they were supposed to be inside having meetings and listening to speakers ...like the adult attendees. Why empower the protesters? Not taking them seriously does not empower the protestors. That exchange was unlikely to shift anyone's point of view. If Athiests showed up at a religious convention with similar signage, (No Proof = No God, etc.) do you think the religious would have responded as peacefully and nonthreateningly?Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marinus 0 #31 April 30, 2012 QuoteI thought they were supposed to be inside having meetings and listening to speakers ...like the adult attendees. Why empower the protesters? You avoid what's in fact a rather good question. And the protesters weren't empowered, it was the opposite in fact. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marinus 0 #32 April 30, 2012 Quotesimilar signage, (No Proof = No God, etc.) That's not similar "Christianity is the Cancer, Atheism is the Answer" and "Die, Christians, Die" would be more like what the hate beards in the vid yell. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
muff528 3 #33 April 30, 2012 Quote ... So yelling "Islam is a cancer" and "Yay, tortured muslims Well, IMO it's all a bit silly. I suppose they could have been out there at break time and decided to poke at stick at the Muslims. Quote I think we have differing opinions of what is or is not "political" activity. (So, is organized atheism a religion ...or religion-like?) Quote Apparently we have, but then again, politics is one of those things that's hard (if not impossible) to define. Just count your blessings we're not discussing art. Organized atheism is rare, but it can be religion-like, LaVeyan Satanism would be an example of this. I've even encountered an atheist sect. And there's of course state atheism which was every bit as awful as state religion. Well, a Global Convention looks a little "organized" to me. Again, not criticizing. Quote Quote Yet, various opposing, "blasphemous" ideologies or "political entities" do exist in Bumfukt and a convention might do them some good (if they dared). Or they could just continue to live under tyranny. Their choice. I doubt if it would do them some good. I don't know if atheism is illegal in Egypt, but I don't think it would be a good idea to come out of the closet if you're one. And, if you're small minority under tyranny there's not that much choice. Then that's their choice. Gandhi would tell them, "submit and take it up the kazoo." Others might say "let's fight our way out of here! Maybe we can get some help from the 'Merkans." Quote Quote ...likewise, much of the lore of just about any given religion is refuting the lore of other religions. That's not true, I doubt, for example, if more then 1% of the contents of the bible is about other religions being wrong. You meant "lore" as in scriptures of various religions; I really was referring to something more like differences in interpretation or application of those writings giving differing groups a cause to refute others' religions or denominations. My mistake. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bolas 5 #34 April 30, 2012 Quote Quote similar signage, (No Proof = No God, etc.) That's not similar "Christianity is the Cancer, Atheism is the Answer" and "Die, Christians, Die" would be more like what the hate beards in the vid yell. True. But the point was that even if their signs weren't as strongly worded nor were they yelling, the response would still be far less rational. I do like that Christian cancer comment, would make a great t-shirt. :(Also available in Islam, Judaism, and others or just as generic Religion. )Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
muff528 3 #35 April 30, 2012 QuoteQuoteI thought they were supposed to be inside having meetings and listening to speakers ...like the adult attendees. Why empower the protesters? You avoid what's in fact a rather good question. And the protesters weren't empowered, it was the opposite in fact. Yes, it was a good question, and not avoided if you got my meaning. My answer was to simply ignore them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Southern_Man 0 #36 April 30, 2012 Quote Quote...likewise, much of the lore of just about any given religion is refuting the lore of other religions. That's not true, I doubt, for example, if more then 1% of the contents of the bible is about other religions being wrong. I think you would lose that bet. The conpare/contrast aspects of the Bible are very extensive...it is a major theme of the prophets, for example. It is also a good part of the subject matter of Ezra, Nehamiah, Corinthians, etc."What if there were no hypothetical questions?" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bolas 5 #37 April 30, 2012 Quote Quote Quote I thought they were supposed to be inside having meetings and listening to speakers ...like the adult attendees. Why empower the protesters? You avoid what's in fact a rather good question. And the protesters weren't empowered, it was the opposite in fact. Yes, it was a good question, and not avoided if you got my meaning. My answer was to simply ignore them. Yep. Cuz ignoring things makes them go away. It's sure worked great for the debt and bullying just to name two. Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
muff528 3 #38 April 30, 2012 Quote Quote Quote Quote I thought they were supposed to be inside having meetings and listening to speakers ...like the adult attendees. Why empower the protesters? You avoid what's in fact a rather good question. And the protesters weren't empowered, it was the opposite in fact. Yes, it was a good question, and not avoided if you got my meaning. My answer was to simply ignore them. Yep. Cuz ignoring things makes them go away. It's sure worked great for the debt and bullying just to name two. Who cares whether the protesters "go away" or not? (BTW, Singing to them won't make 'em leave either. Well, not unless you can get Slim Whitman to sing "Indian Love Call" to them.) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coreece 190 #39 April 30, 2012 QuoteAtheism is by it's very nature antagonistic...Atheism is a logical position. About as logical as creating antagonistic organizations that define themselves though terms that signify a disbelief in lucky charms... It just goes to show how deep seeded the idea of God real is within the human heart that we feel a need to define ourselves around the concept.Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coreece 190 #40 April 30, 2012 Quote may the Lord hate you and all your kind, may you be turned orange in hue, and may your head fall off at an awkward moment. How humanistic of you...Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #41 May 1, 2012 Quote But I think people who feel irrational fear/hatred towards a demographic will often try to rationalize it. ..regardless of religious leanings...or the lack thereof.My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #42 May 1, 2012 QuoteI'm sorry, since when is atheism a political entity? Funny how many American Christians see political agendas everywhere. One would think you guys are a bit paranoid. You maybe didn't read the entire thought: "but it's not "minding their own business" if their political activity potentially affects the other groups. They are inviting protests from these groups ...just like any other political entity invites protests from opposing entities." QuoteThey were minding their own business. period. No need for those hate beards to show up with signs that read that "Atheism is a cancer". Sure they have the right to do just that, but it doesn't mean they aren't obnoxious meddling twats for doing so. Agreed...totally. There are assholes everywhere. Please don't think it's only the religious. Some people just can't stand it when they see others who have a different outlook on life.My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #43 May 1, 2012 That was great!My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #44 May 1, 2012 QuoteQuote the response to the Muslim protesters was at a 3rd grade level at best. Period. How should they have responded to them? How about.....no response. Do you feel that they just HAD to respond? Why?My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bolas 5 #45 May 1, 2012 QuoteQuoteQuote the response to the Muslim protesters was at a 3rd grade level at best. Period. How should they have responded to them? How about.....no response. Do you feel that they just HAD to respond? Why? Why not? It's not as if they had came to their event and this was retaliation. Sure the protestors have the right to protest but that's where their rights end. You can't be reasonable with unreasonable people. I thought simply pointing out how silly they were was genius and should be used for other fanatics such as Westboro.Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marinus 0 #46 May 1, 2012 QuoteWell, IMO it's all a bit silly. I suppose they could have been out there at break time and decided to poke at stick at the Muslims. I assumed it was break time, but it would have been silly for them to interrupt their program to yell at a couple of idiots indeed. QuoteWell, a Global Convention looks a little "organized" to me. Again, not criticizing. Yes, and the 4000 atheists who attended are a small group of atheists. there's 150 million of us or so. So even if it's organize irreligion, my claim that it's rare, still stands. QuoteThen that's their choice. Gandhi would tell them, "submit and take it up the kazoo." Others might say "let's fight our way out of here! Maybe we can get some help from the 'Merkans." Yes, and there would be much support amongst the 'Merican people to save a bunch of atheists in Egypt. But, seriously, you are in a very convenient position to judge atheists in f.e. Egypt. An atheist is probably lower then pig-shit in Egyptian society, and this means that they're so deep in the godless closet they have no chance to organize. Gandhi had it easy in comparison. Quote You meant "lore" as in scriptures of various religions; I really was referring to something more like differences in interpretation or application of those writings giving differing groups a cause to refute others' religions or denominations. My mistake. Actually, my mistake, after reading a couple of the reactions I change my mind a bit. Yes, refuting other religions is more common. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marinus 0 #47 May 1, 2012 Quote..regardless of religious leanings...or the lack thereof. That goes without saying. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
