Human trials vainly tried to prove air pollution is deadly

[rushmc 23]

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2012/apr/24/did-obamas-epa-relaunch-tuskegee-experiments/

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Returning to the agency’s human experimentation, how much PM2.5 did the study subjects inhale in the name of EPA science? One subject was exposed to 750 micrograms of PM2.5 per cubic meter, or more than 21 times the EPA’s 24-hour standard. Seven subjects were exposed to levels 10 times greater than the 24-hour standard. No study subject was exposed to less than 35 micrograms per cubic meter. Remember, Ms. Jackson said PM2.5 doesn’t make you sick. It just kills you - quickly.

Although PM2.5 is allegedly so deadly, the experiments were stopped in only two cases. One was a 58-year old woman, who EPA experimented on despite her personal medical history of Stage 1 hypertension, premature atrial contractions, osteoarthritis, gall bladder removal and a family history of heart disease (her father had a fatal heart attack at age 57). Her experiment was stopped when she experienced atrial fibrillation. In the other case, the woman experienced no clinical effects, but the EPA nevertheless stopped her experiment after researchers detected a momentary increase in heart rate.

EPA particulate matter assertions notwithstanding, PM2.5 killed none of the study subjects, and the two experiments that were stopped can likely be explained by causes other than PM2.5

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Marinus 0]

I smoked for 17 years, and I'm still alive. This certainly proves that smoking isn't harmful.

[jakee 1,595]

A) Your thread title is retarded.

B) I'll pass on your scepticism of pollution to the thousands killed in the Great Smog of '52.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[rushmc 23]

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A) Your thread title is retarded.

.

And your responce isnt?

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[jakee 1,595]

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Quote

A) Your thread title is retarded.

.

And your responce isnt?

No.

Your spelling is.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[rushmc 23]

Quote

Quote

Quote

A) Your thread title is retarded.

.

And your responce isnt?

No.

Your spelling is.

The spelling police are back!!

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[jclalor 12]

Junk science and a re-post from 3 weeks ago.


http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=4306225;search_string=PM2.5;#4306225

[lawrocket 3]

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I'll pass on your scepticism of pollution to the thousands killed in the Great Smog of '52.

Yes. It was indeed a tragedy caused by a mixture of weather and people trying not to freeze.

There was something done about it. And about the Donora smog a few years before with environmental regulations. The problem now is that such a good job was done with it that, well, we've got to look for other killers. Then we've got to say that there are other killers. Or other health risks to justify continued existence and regulation.

So this stuff kills. Okay. How many? Don't know the answer to that, eh? Well, let's make sure that tens of billions of dollars of long term costs are necessitated to save an unknown number of lives over an unknown period of time.

Fear is a fantastic thing. This stuff can kill you. Just like Mad Cow - BSE can kill you. There's a lot of panic over a disease that has killed about 170 worldwide, and I think one person in Florida in 2003.

We can raise panics about everything. Remember when SARS was going to kill us? Remember when the swine flu was going to kill everyone? Remember when the Fukushima reactor was going to kill millions (radiation death toll is at zero and holding steady - infinitely more people died trying to escape the certain death than died from certain death).

I think the arguments all come down to cost. How do we want people dying? Do we want them dying of Alzheimer's or CJD? Would we rather have them dying in natural ways like of exposure to heat, cold, etc., or die from particulates?

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[jakee 1,595]

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Quote

Quote

Quote

A) Your thread title is retarded.

.

And your responce isnt?

No.

Your spelling is.

The spelling police are back!!

And why not? It's more worthwhile than commenting on the content of your post.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[jakee 1,595]

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There was something done about it. And about the Donora smog a few years before with environmental regulations. The problem now is that such a good job was done with it that...

Such a good job was done that, despite numerous mass fatalities in first world cities within living memory, you now get people popping back up effectively claiming that there's nothing wrong with air pollution of any level because no-one dies from it anymore.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[lawrocket 3]

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There was something done about it. And about the Donora smog a few years before with environmental regulations. The problem now is that such a good job was done with it that...

Such a good job was done that, despite numerous mass fatalities in first world cities within living memory, you now get people popping back up effectively claiming that there's nothing wrong with air pollution of any level because no-one dies from it anymore.

Correct. But people DO die from air quality. Lately it's been pollen counts causing all kinds of nastiness.

There ARE problems. But the problems are not as deadly as they were before. Not nearly as deadly as they were before. I grew up in the Los Angeles basin and I remember second stage smog alerts. I remember playing outside and having the burning lungs afterward. And those days, while not fully behind us, are far less frequent and, I think, less intense.

Things are better now. It doesn't mean they are perfect. I think that we should stop acting like things are as bad as they ever were. Things will never be perfect and we should always look to improve things. But is it worth treating every aerosol like it's phosgene?

I think that if you need to lie about it to make a point that the point being made is invalid. "This stuff kills people!" Yes. So does water. Thousands of Americans every year get killed by it, usually through inhalation of it. Thousands of Americans die - and many more are disabled - each year from worry! More children were killed and disabled from worry about vaccinations than from vaccinations.

Fear is a powerful tool. I think I see fear as being the most powerful tool governments have.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[jakee 1,595]

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I think that we should stop acting like things are as bad as they ever were.

I don't think we do.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[billvon 3,118]

>Just like Mad Cow - BSE can kill you. There's a lot of panic over a disease
>that has killed about 170 worldwide.

Yep. Think all the money we spent on it has something to do with that?

That's the problem with doing a good job on something. Since few people die everyone thinks you are just wasting money.

>Would we rather have them dying in natural ways like of exposure to heat,
>cold, etc., or die from particulates?

Agreed. It's all a tradeoff. However, I am sure you would agree that not taking steps to prevent someone's death is quite different than causing someone's death, directly or indirectly.

[kallend 2,148]

Attachment.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[rushmc 23]

I guess you are OK with human experimentation by the EPA

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln