Montana Gov: Romney’s father ‘born into polygamy commune in Mexico’
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jclalor, in Speakers Corner
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rushmc 23
QuoteQuote
Everyone knows the vast majority of the Republican party is voting against Obama, and not for Romney.
this isn't something new you know
That is how Obama got elected
That may be partly the case. In Obama's case it was also swing voters' horror at the thought of Palin a heartbeat away from the presidency.
Anyhow, exhaustion with the previous administration or its party is a fairly common factor in electing presidents. it was instrumental in electing FDR, Carter, Reagan and Clinton.
Disagree with one part
Palin got McCain MORE votes than he otherwise would have
You just cant see past your visceral hatred of her
"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln
Andy9o8 2
This isn't about me, Marc, no matter how much you want to blow me off with a dismissive remark. I really do have ability to objectively analyze politics and history. I'm happy to have everyone else read my post and decide for themselves.
wmw999 2,588
Sarah Palin appealed to people who were going to vote for McCain anyway. She was to the right of McCain -- way to the antagonizingly right.
Who do you think voted for McCain because of her, that would have voted for Obama? Those are the votes that counted. The ones who really liked her, but would never have voted for Obama, really don't count.
With a better VP candidate, I would have seriously considered voting for McCain; had he been the candidate in 2000, I would definitely voted for him over Al Gore. But there was no way I'd've voted for him with Palin, and I'm by no means alone.
Wendy P.
Who do you think voted for McCain because of her, that would have voted for Obama? Those are the votes that counted. The ones who really liked her, but would never have voted for Obama, really don't count.
With a better VP candidate, I would have seriously considered voting for McCain; had he been the candidate in 2000, I would definitely voted for him over Al Gore. But there was no way I'd've voted for him with Palin, and I'm by no means alone.
Wendy P.
There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)
I think Palin brought conservatives to the polls that would have stayed home and not voted at all because they were so unhappy with McCain.
jclalor 12
Quote***
Quote
Everyone knows the vast majority of the Republican party is voting against Obama, and not for Romney.
this isn't something new you know
That is how Obama got elected
Obama had a positive favorability rating that was very close to the percentage he won the election with.
Romney, although he has had a slight bump in the last week, is still polling with a negative favorability rating.
jclalor 12
***
Obama and Romney each have 45% of the vote, the battle is over the 10% in the middle. These 10% are not driven by ideological agendas, this is why Mccain lost, they were horrified by Palin. If Romney was to pick a middle of the road moderate Republican for VP and tone down the extremist rhetoric, he would still get his base 45% plus a good number of the swing voters and waltz into the WH.
This is what the left fears most.
QuoteSarah Palin appealed to people who were going to vote for McCain anyway. She was to the right of McCain -- way to the antagonizingly right.
Who do you think voted for McCain because of her, that would have voted for Obama? Those are the votes that counted. The ones who really liked her, but would never have voted for Obama, really don't count.
With a better VP candidate, I would have seriously considered voting for McCain; had he been the candidate in 2000, I would definitely voted for him over Al Gore. But there was no way I'd've voted for him with Palin, and I'm by no means alone.
Wendy P.
Obama and Romney each have 45% of the vote, the battle is over the 10% in the middle. These 10% are not driven by ideological agendas, this is why Mccain lost, they were horrified by Palin. If Romney was to pick a middle of the road moderate Republican for VP and tone down the extremist rhetoric, he would still get his base 45% plus a good number of the swing voters and waltz into the WH.
This is what the left fears most.
Quote
Disagree with one part
Palin got McCain MORE votes than he otherwise would have
You just cant see past your visceral hatred of her
And you basis for either remark is....?
In counterpoint:
http://www.stanford.edu/~elis/Elis%20et%20al%202010%20Dynamics%20of%20Candidate%20Evaluations.pdf
(summary - she cost him 2%)
rushmc 23
mQuoteThis isn't about me, Marc, no matter how much you want to blow me off with a dismissive remark. I really do have ability to objectively analyze politics and history. I'm happy to have everyone else read my post and decide for themselves.
Nor is it about me or how much you blow others off with whom you disagree
I just try and avoid the arrogance and condescension when I post here
But I will return it to those who do
"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln
rushmc 23
QuoteI think Palin brought conservatives to the polls that would have stayed home and not voted at all because they were so unhappy with McCain.
Is is known that she did
"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln
rushmc 23
QuoteQuote***
Quote
Everyone knows the vast majority of the Republican party is voting against Obama, and not for Romney.
this isn't something new you know
That is how Obama got elected
Obama had a positive favorability rating that was very close to the percentage he won the election with.
Romney, although he has had a slight bump in the last week, is still polling with a negative favorability rating.
And he still has a positive rating (according the to polls)
But now he has a record
A record he is avoiding at all costs trying to talk about
This is why we will see the most negative campaign ever
And since he has a record, we will see how he does this time around
"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln
jclalor 12
QuoteQuoteQuote***
Quote
Everyone knows the vast majority of the Republican party is voting against Obama, and not for Romney.
this isn't something new you know
That is how Obama got elected
Obama had a positive favorability rating that was very close to the percentage he won the election with.
Romney, although he has had a slight bump in the last week, is still polling with a negative favorability rating.
QuoteAnd he still has a positive rating (according the to polls)
But now he has a record
A record he is avoiding at all costs trying to talk about
This is why we will see the most negative campaign ever
And since he has a record, we will see how he does ***this time around
it's pretty undisputed his favorability ratings.
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/record-shortfall-personal-popularity-challenges-romney-race-ahead/story?id=16151342
He still has a while to turn it around.
rushmc 23
I meant Obama had a favorable rating
Sorry if my post was confusing
Sorry if my post was confusing
"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln
If Romney can keep this Campaign about the issues and Obama's record, he will win. If he allows Obama to make it about personalities and social issues, he will lose.
We are electing a CEO. I think Romney has the better record in that regard.
We are electing a CEO. I think Romney has the better record in that regard.
wmw999 2,588
Something to consider is that conservatives who ended up voting were worth one vote each.
Moderates who ended up going for the other guy were worth two -- one from McCain, and one to Obama.
Wendy P.
Moderates who ended up going for the other guy were worth two -- one from McCain, and one to Obama.
Wendy P.
There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)
jclalor 12
QuoteQuoteIf Romney can keep this Campaign about the issues and Obama's record, he will win. If he allows Obama to make it about personalities and social issues, he will lose.
We are electing a CEO. I think Romney has the better record in that regard.
Romney's experience as a CEO willl be one of his strongest atributes, but I also think that politicts have gotten so heated and personal in the last ten years that there's no going back. I think now it's all about perception, The left feels (rightly or wrongly) that the attacks on Obama were too personal last election, and now with the super pacs, major personal attacks can be launched with both of the candidates not getting their hands dirty.
I really think if Romney does the Etch-a-sketch trick, he stands a chance. It's all about the mushy middle 10%, I have yet to meet a person who says their unsure who they will vote for November.
QuotemQuoteThis isn't about me, Marc, no matter how much you want to blow me off with a dismissive remark. I really do have ability to objectively analyze politics and history. I'm happy to have everyone else read my post and decide for themselves.
Nor is it about me or how much you blow others off with whom you disagree
I just try and avoid the arrogance and condescension when I post here
But I will return it to those who do
Alinsky Rule #5.
jclalor 12
QuoteQuoteIf Romney can keep this Campaign about the issues and Obama's record, he will win. If he allows Obama to make it about personalities and social issues, he will lose.
We are electing a CEO. I think Romney has the better record in that regard.
It looks like one the biggest obstacles for Romney's Mormn faith, will be with devout Christian's beleif in the trinity. Polling shows the mormon deniall of the trinity will be a major sticking point with many of them.
Accoring to Rick Warrens,
“Well, the key sticking point for evangelicals and actually for many is the issue of the Trinity,” the evangelical pastor explained. “Orthodox Christians, Catholic Christians, Protestant Christians, evangelical Christians and Pentecostal Christians all believe in the Trinity; that’s the historic doctrine of the church, that God is three-in-one. Not three gods; one God in Father, Son and Holy Spirit.”
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2012/04/08/rick-warren-mormonism-denies-christian-doctrine/
quade 4
QuoteAccoring to Rick Warrens,
“Well, the key sticking point for evangelicals and actually for many is the issue of the Trinity,” the evangelical pastor explained. “Orthodox Christians, Catholic Christians, Protestant Christians, evangelical Christians and Pentecostal Christians all believe in the Trinity; that’s the historic doctrine of the church, that God is three-in-one. Not three gods; one God in Father, Son and Holy Spirit.”
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2012/04/08/rick-warren-mormonism-denies-christian-doctrine/
I'd like to think religion simply didn't matter, but sadly people like Rick Warren (who spoke at Obama's inauguration) do have an influence over their sheep, uh . . . flock . . . uh, crap! They pretty much admit it's about controlling other people right up front; don't they?
quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver
The World's Most Boring Skydiver
Coreece 190
QuoteIt looks like one the biggest obstacles for Romney's Mormn faith
Personally I think that may be more of an issue for people like you...religious folk may have strong opinions, but for the most part it's a personal thing.
Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are...
QuoteQuoteAccoring to Rick Warrens,
“Well, the key sticking point for evangelicals and actually for many is the issue of the Trinity,” the evangelical pastor explained. “Orthodox Christians, Catholic Christians, Protestant Christians, evangelical Christians and Pentecostal Christians all believe in the Trinity; that’s the historic doctrine of the church, that God is three-in-one. Not three gods; one God in Father, Son and Holy Spirit.”
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2012/04/08/rick-warren-mormonism-denies-christian-doctrine/
I'd like to think religion simply didn't matter, but sadly people like Rick Warren (who spoke at Obama's inauguration) do have an influence over their sheep, uh . . . flock . . . uh, crap! They pretty much admit it's about controlling other people right up front; don't they?
How about Rev. Wright. Would you say he has influence over his "flock"?
quade 4
QuoteHow about Rev. Wright. Would you say he has influence over his "flock"?
I'd say it's a major aspect of EVERY religion and religious leader from the Pope to Mecca, from Scientology to Harikrishna.
They ALL want you to follow some rule and fork over some cash for the privilege.
I rarely speak in absolutes, but I can't think of any exceptions. Can you?
quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver
The World's Most Boring Skydiver
jclalor 12
QuoteQuoteQuoteIt looks like one the biggest obstacles for Romney's Mormn faith
Personally I think that may be more of an issue for people like you...religious folk may have strong opinions, but for the most part it's a personal thing.
It's not an issue for Athiest, you can pretty much bet that Romney will recieve very few of their votes.
For some, their religion is a personal thing, but for many, the trinity is the foundation of their Christian faith. This is mainly an issue with the religious right, one that the left, and present company included, is all more than happy to sit back and watch play out.
People are going to learn more about Morminism in the next 6 months, than they learned prior in a whole lifetime.
Then again, many on the right will have the old " the enemy of my enemy is my friend" attitude torwards Romney, and they will hold their nose long enough to vote for Mitt.
QuoteQuoteHow about Rev. Wright. Would you say he has influence over his "flock"?
I'd say it's a major aspect of EVERY religion and religious leader from the Pope to Mecca, from Scientology to Harikrishna.
They ALL want you to follow some rule and fork over some cash for the privilege.
I rarely speak in absolutes, but I can't think of any exceptions. Can you?
No, I can't. However some influence can be positive and some negative. Rick Warren, ok. Louis Farrakhan, not ok. I think any influence which motivates people to live a positive virtuos life is fine.
this isn't something new you know
That is how Obama got elected
They actually voted against a guy who wasn't even running.
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