Constitution question?

[grimmie 186]

For the legal eagles in the crowd.
What gives the US State Department power to restrict US citizens from traveling to other countries?
signed,
Wanna go to Cuba someday

[quade 4]

There isn't one. You can go to Cuba today if you want to. You just can't go there directly from the US on US flagged ships (air or sea).

The US State Department will even help you get there.

http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_1097.html

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[ryoder 1,590]

In the old days, you just hijacked an airliner.

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[kelpdiver 2]

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There isn't one. You can go to Cuba today if you want to. You just can't go there directly from the US on US flagged ships (air or sea).

The US State Department will even help you get there.

http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_1097.html

you might want to read that document more closely. It still points out the existing controls that exclude most tourism and include substantial penalties.

People certainly go there from Cancun or Canada (Cancun seems more subtle then returning from Toronto with a bright farmer john tan), but do well not to advertize it.

[quade 4]

Was he specifically and exclusively taking about tourism? I thought he said "travel."

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[kelpdiver 2]

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Was he specifically and exclusively taking about tourism? I thought he said "travel."

He said, 'what gives them the right to tell me I can't travel to Cuba? want to go there.' Constitutionally, I think the answers lies in the broad language around

That's called tourism. You can get an official pass in very limited circumstances. Otherwise if you go there, you can't spend any money.

I believe the tenor over these "commie supporting" tourists has calmed a tad in the past few years, but we're still decades overdue in ending this Cold War nonsense. Fuck the Miami Cubans.

couple links that popped up when I looked:
http://www.talkleft.com/story/2009/4/14/95319/3944
http://ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=46340

Funny, like so many of Obama's initiatives, it came and went in 2009.

[Rookie120 0]

***

So go! Nothing stopping you. Just go through Panama or somewhere. What me and some friends did is went through Panama on the way down and on the way back we had to head to Bogota then back to the states. When you get there you buy a page for yout passport and thats what they will stamp when you get to Cuba. Then when you come back you pull the page so Customs doesnt see it. In all honesty though the place is a real shithole!

I almost forgot too, Take Canadian money with you to exchange. They really screw you on the exchange with US $

If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck!

[grimmie 186]

I know I can go to Cuba.
I really wanted to know what gives the government the power to stop citizens from traveling to certain places.

[quade 4]

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I know I can go to Cuba.
I really wanted to know what gives the government the power to stop citizens from traveling to certain places.

I don't think it does, nor do I think the US actually can legally stop you from going. They might penalize you for trade violations or strongly suggest its a very bad idea, but if you want to go to any country, I don't think they can stop you for any reason other than things like you're under investigation for a crime and out on bail or something like that.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[Rookie120 0]

***


The legal explanation? I don't know. I just know I went and if had the chance won't go back. It wasn't worth it.

If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck!

[Andy9o8 2]

Not even for the cigars?

[davjohns 1]

I've been told the cigars aren't so great, just forbidden fruit. I'd still like to see for myself.

I've wondered for years why some Cuban generals / senior government didn't buy up the beachfront property and then go to Castro (Fidel or Juan) and tell him, "We've been talking to some guys from Vegas. Next week, we're going to be a democracy and return to being the hotspot we once were. Money will flow. Would you like to retire to a nice little villa on the other side of the island or die quietly in your sleep?"

I know it just wouldnt be right to kill all the stupid people that we meet..

But do you think it would be appropriate to just remove all of the warning labels and let nature take its course.

[Rookie120 0]

***


Nope! I think Cuban's are overrated anyway. So many people left Cuba but they took their seeds, knowledge and family traditions to growing and making them with them. They are "Illegal" here. Thats why people think they have something special. I smoke a lot of cigars and I think they are overrated.

If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck!

[kelpdiver 2]

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I know I can go to Cuba.
I really wanted to know what gives the government the power to stop citizens from traveling to certain places.

I don't think it does, nor do I think the US actually can legally stop you from going. They might penalize you for trade violations or strongly suggest its a very bad idea, but if you want to go to any country, I don't think they can stop you for any reason other than things like you're under investigation for a crime and out on bail or something like that.

The reason, valid or not, stems from the President declaring the embargo is in the national interest.

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In all the years of the travel restrictions, up until the Bush 2 administration, very few people had been prosecuted. The Office of Foreign Assets Control in the Treasury Department said in 1999 that there have been only 16 criminal prosecutions for nine violations since 1983. Since 2001, the number has gone up, and prosecutions are more numerous, with hefty fines imposed of $6,000 to $10,000. The penalties on record are stiff: $250,000 fine and up to 10 years in the pen, but until fairly recently fines have been minimal. The situation has gotten to the point where people are getting together to create a legal defense organization to defend the right to travel.

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When you travel via Cancun, you pass customs in the US. Via Canada, you pass US customs in Canada, but they seem more reasonable and less apt to 'tag' you. Do not bring cigars back, they are very illegal... and if you've been bad and have asked the Cubans and the Mexicans not to stamp your passport (bribing the Mexicans with $20 folded into your passport, although some say that is not necessary), then be sure to tell the truth if later on a US Customs agent asks you where you've been. It's a worse sin (a felony) to lie to a federal officer than to go to Cuba without a license, which is punished by fines, typically hefty these days. Be aware that you have to ask both the Cubans and the Mexicans to not stamp your passport or they will. The Cubans will usually honor this request for free.

Note: there have been reports of people being fined even though they did not bring anything back with them from Cuba or give themselves away in an obvious manner.... This is true even through Mexico, where they have been known to give the US the passenger manifests...

http://www.afrocubaweb.com/travelcuba.htm

I have tended to believe Rookie's assessment - that Cuba isn't all that different from other Caribbean options, other than the thrill and risk of going to a "banned" place. It's still full of tourists, just not many American ones. I long ago determined that other Westerner tourists are just as obnoxious as we are on vacation.