marks2065 0 #26 April 11, 2012 Quote It's better by far to think you see a tiger in the grass when there isn't one there, than not to see the tiger in the grass that's waiting to pounce on you. Just because the science is only 98% settled doesn't mean we shouldn't act on it. so with that said, we should spend trillions of dollars fixing something that may not be broke. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #27 April 11, 2012 QuoteQuoteQuoteIt would be more impressive if the people who signed the letter were climitologists. There may be a few in there, but most were engineers or program managers. Hardly experts in the field. Funny, that - James Hansen is pretty highly thought of by the alarmists and he's a physics PHD. Or Michael Mann, Master in Physics, PHD in Geology. Don't think I've noticed any of the alarmists with a degree in climatology. Physics applies to everything. Astronaut training doesn't. Astronaut training is not the sum of their experience. Chapman has a Bachelor in Physics and Mathematics, as well as other degrees. Collins has a Bachelors degree from the USMA, discipline unknown Cunningham has a Physics degree Decell is a professor of Mathematics at the University of Houston Doiron has a Physics degree Shall I continue?Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skiskyrock 0 #28 April 11, 2012 QuoteQuoteIt would be more impressive if the people who signed the letter were climitologists. There may be a few in there, but most were engineers or program managers. Hardly experts in the field. Inasmuch as my text on Radiation Heat Transfer was the product of NASA Engineering, I beg to differ with your assertion that they are inexpert in the field. Anyone who puts forth a model which describes the climate as a single-input single-output (SISO) system is definitively inexpert. Latching onto one factor to the exclusion of all others is characteristic of someone who took a single watered-down "science" course in college and barely passed - someone like Al Gore. Though CO2 is a factor, Global Warming/Climate Change is based on the kind of science that keeps comic books in print. BSBD, Winsor It also appears to keep Science and Nature in print. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,150 #29 April 11, 2012 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteIt would be more impressive if the people who signed the letter were climitologists. There may be a few in there, but most were engineers or program managers. Hardly experts in the field. Funny, that - James Hansen is pretty highly thought of by the alarmists and he's a physics PHD. Or Michael Mann, Master in Physics, PHD in Geology. Don't think I've noticed any of the alarmists with a degree in climatology. Physics applies to everything. Astronaut training doesn't. Astronaut training is not the sum of their experience. Chapman has a Bachelor in Physics and Mathematics, as well as other degrees. Collins has a Bachelors degree from the USMA, discipline unknown Cunningham has a Physics degree Decell is a professor of Mathematics at the University of Houston Doiron has a Physics degree Shall I continue? "... has a physics degree": Wow, I'm impressed. How many of these "physicists" are working in climatology?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
brenthutch 444 #30 April 11, 2012 Quote It's better by far to think you see a tiger in the grass when there isn't one there, than not to see the tiger in the grass that's waiting to pounce on you. Just because the science is only 98% settled doesn't mean we shouldn't act on it. Where are you getting this 98% figure? Source please. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lawrocket 3 #31 April 11, 2012 QuoteIt's better by far to think you see a tiger in the grass when there isn't one there, than not to see the tiger in the grass that's waiting to pounce on you. Tell that to Trayvon Martin. My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,150 #32 April 11, 2012 QuoteQuoteIt's better by far to think you see a tiger in the grass when there isn't one there, than not to see the tiger in the grass that's waiting to pounce on you. Tell that to Trayvon Martin. Was he eaten by a tiger?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #33 April 11, 2012 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteIt would be more impressive if the people who signed the letter were climitologists. There may be a few in there, but most were engineers or program managers. Hardly experts in the field. Funny, that - James Hansen is pretty highly thought of by the alarmists and he's a physics PHD. Or Michael Mann, Master in Physics, PHD in Geology. Don't think I've noticed any of the alarmists with a degree in climatology. Physics applies to everything. Astronaut training doesn't. Astronaut training is not the sum of their experience. Chapman has a Bachelor in Physics and Mathematics, as well as other degrees. Collins has a Bachelors degree from the USMA, discipline unknown Cunningham has a Physics degree Decell is a professor of Mathematics at the University of Houston Doiron has a Physics degree Shall I continue? "... has a physics degree": Wow, I'm impressed. How many of these "physicists" are working in climatology? Immaterial - "Physics applies to everything", remember?Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,589 #34 April 11, 2012 QuotePrincipal Investigator, Science DirectorateIn my little corner of NASA subcontract-land, the Principal Investigator was the project lead for a project; I was PI for a number of projects, the vast majority of which I was by no means the chief techie. Wendy P.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,150 #35 April 11, 2012 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteIt would be more impressive if the people who signed the letter were climitologists. There may be a few in there, but most were engineers or program managers. Hardly experts in the field. Funny, that - James Hansen is pretty highly thought of by the alarmists and he's a physics PHD. Or Michael Mann, Master in Physics, PHD in Geology. Don't think I've noticed any of the alarmists with a degree in climatology. Physics applies to everything. Astronaut training doesn't. Astronaut training is not the sum of their experience. Chapman has a Bachelor in Physics and Mathematics, as well as other degrees. Collins has a Bachelors degree from the USMA, discipline unknown Cunningham has a Physics degree Decell is a professor of Mathematics at the University of Houston Doiron has a Physics degree Shall I continue? "... has a physics degree": Wow, I'm impressed. How many of these "physicists" are working in climatology? Immaterial - "Physics applies to everything", remember? Indeed, so there's no reason a physicist shouldn't become a climatologist or an astronaut. Doesn't mean astronauts with physics degrees are climatologists. Ever think of taking a logic course?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #36 April 11, 2012 QuoteDoesn't mean astronauts with physics degrees are climatologists. Didn't make that claim. Nice strawman attempt, though. QuoteEver think of taking a logic course? Not if it's taught by you.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
brenthutch 444 #37 April 11, 2012 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteIt would be more impressive if the people who signed the letter were climitologists. There may be a few in there, but most were engineers or program managers. Hardly experts in the field. Funny, that - James Hansen is pretty highly thought of by the alarmists and he's a physics PHD. Or Michael Mann, Master in Physics, PHD in Geology. Don't think I've noticed any of the alarmists with a degree in climatology. Physics applies to everything. Astronaut training doesn't. Astronaut training is not the sum of their experience. Chapman has a Bachelor in Physics and Mathematics, as well as other degrees. Collins has a Bachelors degree from the USMA, discipline unknown Cunningham has a Physics degree Decell is a professor of Mathematics at the University of Houston Doiron has a Physics degree Shall I continue? "... has a physics degree": Wow, I'm impressed. How many of these "physicists" are working in climatology? You Don't Need A Weatherman to Know Which Way the Wind Is Blowing Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lawrocket 3 #38 April 11, 2012 QuoteQuoteQuoteIt's better by far to think you see a tiger in the grass when there isn't one there, than not to see the tiger in the grass that's waiting to pounce on you. Tell that to Trayvon Martin. Was he eaten by a tiger? No. just killed by someone being vigilant, is all. Tis better to see the thug in the hoodie than not see the thug that's waiting to cap your ass. My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lawrocket 3 #39 April 11, 2012 QuoteDoesn't mean astronauts with physics degrees are climatologists. Doesn't mean that non-climatologists are not qualified or capable to comment on it. Why the hell are climatologists putting out press releases to people who aren't qualified to understand what they are talking about? Because they think people are qualified to agree with them and not qualified to disagree. And here's the thing, John - do you think that a person who is not a climatologist can be correct? Do you also think that a climatologist cannot be in error? Yes, I know. Only climatologists can tell a climatologist he/she is wrong. Hence you've got people out there asserting that climate models are more accurate than the raw data. That's why climate modelers are out there modeling. Climate models, of course, are ALWAYS wrong. How do we know this? Because it isn't real - it's a model. It is an apparition. A climate model is RELEVANT to gaining an understanding of things when viewed alongside raw data. Yes, I am not a climatologist. I never received instruction in physics (ironically, any instruction I would have received in, say, astronomy, would have told me that the expansion of the universe is slowing due to gravitational influence. Much like your instruction in astrophysics may have included the "Steady state" theory.) My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
brenthutch 444 #40 April 11, 2012 Here is your climate scientist "And I must admit that those adjustments constituting virtually all of the warming signal in the last 40 years is disconcerting. When “global warming” only shows up after the data are adjusted, one can understand why so many people are suspicious of the adjustments." http://www.drroyspencer.com/2012/04/ushcn-surface-temperatures-1973-2012-dramatic-warming-adjustments-noisy-trends/ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,120 #41 April 11, 2012 >Doesn't mean that non-climatologists are not qualified or capable to comment on it. Agreed. Anyone can comment on it. Heck, whuffos can comment on exit separation methods for skydivers. But it often pays to heed the more experienced voices. >Climate models, of course, are ALWAYS wrong. Just as doctors are ALWAYS wrong. They can't know that quitting smoking will save you from cancer or emphysema. They can't know that a given operation will save your life or kill you. But again, often their advice is better than advice from, say, your favorite bartender. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,150 #42 April 11, 2012 Quote Here is your climate scientist "And I must admit that those adjustments constituting virtually all of the warming signal in the last 40 years is disconcerting. When “global warming” only shows up after the data are adjusted, one can understand why so many people are suspicious of the adjustments." http://www.drroyspencer.com/2012/04/ushcn-surface-temperatures-1973-2012-dramatic-warming-adjustments-noisy-trends/ Cool. You found ONE.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
brenthutch 444 #43 April 11, 2012 Quote Quote Here is your climate scientist "And I must admit that those adjustments constituting virtually all of the warming signal in the last 40 years is disconcerting. When “global warming” only shows up after the data are adjusted, one can understand why so many people are suspicious of the adjustments." http://www.drroyspencer.com/2012/04/ushcn-surface-temperatures-1973-2012-dramatic-warming-adjustments-noisy-trends/ Cool. You found ONE. Here is another one. "Mann joined the U. of Virginia faculty as an assistant professor and left for Penn State six years later after failing to gain tenure. In fact, he was a member of my Department of Environmental Sciences, although we did not overlap Read more: http://www.americanthinker.com/2012/04/climategate_heads_to_court.html#ixzz1rlU6LWqy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,150 #44 April 11, 2012 Quote Quote Quote Here is your climate scientist "And I must admit that those adjustments constituting virtually all of the warming signal in the last 40 years is disconcerting. When “global warming” only shows up after the data are adjusted, one can understand why so many people are suspicious of the adjustments." http://www.drroyspencer.com/2012/04/ushcn-surface-temperatures-1973-2012-dramatic-warming-adjustments-noisy-trends/ Cool. You found ONE. Here is another one. "Mann joined the U. of Virginia faculty as an assistant professor and left for Penn State six years later after failing to gain tenure. In fact, he was a member of my Department of Environmental Sciences, although we did not overlap Read more: http://www.americanthinker.com/2012/04/climategate_heads_to_court.html#ixzz1rlU6LWqy Fred Singer There's a pot calling the kettle "black". He's a "smoking causes cancer" denier too.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
brenthutch 444 #45 April 11, 2012 Quote Quote Quote Here is your climate scientist "And I must admit that those adjustments constituting virtually all of the warming signal in the last 40 years is disconcerting. When “global warming” only shows up after the data are adjusted, one can understand why so many people are suspicious of the adjustments." http://www.drroyspencer.com/2012/04/ushcn-surface-temperatures-1973-2012-dramatic-warming-adjustments-noisy-trends/ Cool. You found ONE. Here is another one. "Mann joined the U. of Virginia faculty as an assistant professor and left for Penn State six years later after failing to gain tenure. In fact, he was a member of my Department of Environmental Sciences, although we did not overlap Read more: http://www.americanthinker.com/2012/04/climategate_heads_to_court.html#ixzz1rlU6LWqy Here is two more! http://pielkeclimatesci.wordpress.com/ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lawrocket 3 #46 April 11, 2012 Bill - you're overstating it. QuoteBut it often pays to heed the more experienced voices. I was reading the incidents forum and a guy commented that only a whuffo's story made sense with the evidence. Sometimes an outside eye is a good thing because experience causes preconceived ideas. Other times experience is necessary. I see it all the time dealing with lay witnesses, experts, attorneys, etc. Most of the time, yes, trust the expert. But ever ask the doctor why? Ever ask it explained? Ever have a doctor say, "You aren't a doctor, so don't ask these things." My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Channman 2 #47 April 11, 2012 Quote http://notrickszone.com/2012/04/10/50-top-astronauts-scientists-engineers-sign-letter-claiming-giss-is-turning-nasa-into-a-laughing-stock "We believe the claims by NASA and GISS, that man-made carbon dioxide is having a catastrophic impact on global climate change are not substantiated, especially when considering thousands of years of empirical data. With hundreds of well-known climate scientists and tens of thousands of other scientists publicly declaring their disbelief in the catastrophic forecasts, coming particularly from the GISS leadership, it is clear that the science is NOT settled." As a former NASA Diver, I don't believe in climate change either, I know these things, I've spent alot of time under water. Oh and I worked with lots of Astronauts...with big degrees and such. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
brenthutch 444 #48 April 11, 2012 Quote Quote Quote Quote Here is your climate scientist "And I must admit that those adjustments constituting virtually all of the warming signal in the last 40 years is disconcerting. When “global warming” only shows up after the data are adjusted, one can understand why so many people are suspicious of the adjustments." http://www.drroyspencer.com/2012/04/ushcn-surface-temperatures-1973-2012-dramatic-warming-adjustments-noisy-trends/ Cool. You found ONE. Here is another one. "Mann joined the U. of Virginia faculty as an assistant professor and left for Penn State six years later after failing to gain tenure. In fact, he was a member of my Department of Environmental Sciences, although we did not overlap Read more: http://www.americanthinker.com/2012/04/climategate_heads_to_court.html#ixzz1rlU6LWqy Here is two more! http://pielkeclimatesci.wordpress.com/ More! http://wattsupwiththat.com/climate-fail-files/ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #49 April 11, 2012 QuoteQuoteData is data, No, data ARE data. The singular is "datum". Some scientist you are! Damn it, Jim, I'm a scientist, not an English major.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,120 #50 April 12, 2012 >I was reading the incidents forum and a guy commented that only a >whuffo's story made sense with the evidence. Yep. That's why I said "often" and not "always." >Sometimes an outside eye is a good thing because experience causes >preconceived ideas. Other times experience is necessary. Of course. But when it comes to talking about skydiving fatalities at Skydive Arizona - and how to prevent them in the future - are you going to listen to a whuffo who saw a fatality, or Bryan Burke? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
