kelpdiver 2 #151 May 21, 2012 QuoteQuoteQuote Post #118 by davjohns says it very well Post 109 might have been a better one to pay attention to, though I do not have time to review them all this morning. But your's was a big zero - no substance to it at all. But to your point - if the integrity of elections is keys, the more significant and proven problems lie with 1) inaccurate mechanical vote readers and 2) proprietary untrustworth Diebold electronic vote recorders. The number of lost votes to these far outweigh the fraud cases which all seem to end in convictions anyway. I disagree http://blog.syracuse.com/opinion/2011/12/troy_vote_fraud_arrests_no_rig.html seriously? A letter to the editor? Here are far more significant concerns to have: http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/despite-state-oversight-vote-counting-errors-abound-in-2344835.html or much more generically: https://www.google.com/search?q=vote+counting+error&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=ubuntu&channel=fs Attack the significant problems here. Presuming (LOL) that an honest count is the real motivation here. http://www.insidescience.org/news-service/1-2539 QuoteWhile the Iowa miscount shocked pundits, Mike Byrne, a psychologist at Houston's Rice University, was hardly surprised. Byrne and colleagues at Clemson University have reported a study showing that even the most careful hand ballot counting can result in an error rate as high as two percent, even without involving the ambiguous hanging chads of the 2000 Florida presidential election that enthralled the nation and embarrassed election officials. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #152 May 21, 2012 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuote Post #118 by davjohns says it very well Post 109 might have been a better one to pay attention to, though I do not have time to review them all this morning. But your's was a big zero - no substance to it at all. But to your point - if the integrity of elections is keys, the more significant and proven problems lie with 1) inaccurate mechanical vote readers and 2) proprietary untrustworth Diebold electronic vote recorders. The number of lost votes to these far outweigh the fraud cases which all seem to end in convictions anyway. I disagree http://blog.syracuse.com/opinion/2011/12/troy_vote_fraud_arrests_no_rig.html seriously? A letter to the editor? Here are far more significant concerns to have: http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/despite-state-oversight-vote-counting-errors-abound-in-2344835.html or much more generically: https://www.google.com/search?q=vote+counting+error&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=ubuntu&channel=fs Attack the significant problems here. Presuming (LOL) that an honest count is the real motivation here. http://www.insidescience.org/news-service/1-2539 QuoteWhile the Iowa miscount shocked pundits, Mike Byrne, a psychologist at Houston's Rice University, was hardly surprised. Byrne and colleagues at Clemson University have reported a study showing that even the most careful hand ballot counting can result in an error rate as high as two percent, even without involving the ambiguous hanging chads of the 2000 Florida presidential election that enthralled the nation and embarrassed election officials. I agree with your honest count comment I agree with your points about machines . ALL votes should have docs (IE a trail) and not just rely on electronic counts only as that could build a path to the biggest vote fraud ever seen Iowa? well, this was idiots leading the ........... an embarrassment at best and I wrote the Republican party of Iowa and told them so I still see general voter fraud as a big issue I also think it is largely unreported"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #153 May 21, 2012 Yep, if you're going to be indignant, go all the way about everything there is. Rough life. My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #154 May 21, 2012 QuoteOf course. My question wasn't about whether you were polite when stopped, it was more about whether you are as indignant about people breaking the speeding laws as bout them breaking the voter laws. Wendy P. Voter laws. YOU worry about the speeding. I have enough to worry about, thanks.My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #155 May 21, 2012 Quote Some people herein are responding that voter fraud is not a big enough problem to require voters to identify themselves. It seems to me that if you are going to have an election, you should take steps to protect the integrity thereof. But that's just me. ...and I'm wondering just how much fraud are they willing to tolerate before it does become a problem for them. Hey! It's not a problem if your guy wins, right? My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #156 May 21, 2012 Illegal voters-OK Hanging chads-Outrage Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #157 May 22, 2012 Quote ...and I'm wondering just how much fraud are they willing to tolerate before it does become a problem for them. Hey! It's not a problem if your guy wins, right? which party is generally associated with Diebold? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #158 May 22, 2012 Quote Quote ...and I'm wondering just how much fraud are they willing to tolerate before it does become a problem for them. Hey! It's not a problem if your guy wins, right? which party is generally associated with Diebold? That part does not matter as indicated by the cases where there were "problems" with them. What was important was which party was in control of the election boards at the time of the "problem""America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
funjumper101 15 #159 May 22, 2012 Quote That part does not matter as indicated by the cases where there were "problems" with them. What was important was which party was in control of the election boards at the time of the "problem" The places where the issues with electronic voting machines were documeted were all under Republican controlled election boards. The Ohio debacle that ended up giving Shrub a second term has been fully researched and well documented. The results of that are the second term SCOTUS nominations that have well and truly fucked over the USA by putting right wing idealogues on the bench, and made the worst one Chief Justice. Odds are none of what your "news" sources have ever covered this issue in depth, thus your lack of knowlege of the facts of the matter. Faux Spews is documented to produce less informed and factually challenged viewers. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #160 May 23, 2012 How many people were convicted of election fraud? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #161 May 23, 2012 QuoteHow many people were convicted of election fraud? Can I wait with you for his answer?"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #162 May 23, 2012 QuoteQuoteHow many people were convicted of election fraud? Can I wait with you for his answer? Need a fishing pole? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #163 May 23, 2012 QuoteQuoteQuoteHow many people were convicted of election fraud? Can I wait with you for his answer? Need a fishing pole? Would help kill the time I suppose So, OK thanks"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
davjohns 1 #164 May 23, 2012 I'll buy the first round. I don't care for beer, but I'll buy a pitcher for you guys. I'll have a margarita. Thanks.I know it just wouldnt be right to kill all the stupid people that we meet.. But do you think it would be appropriate to just remove all of the warning labels and let nature take its course. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #165 May 23, 2012 Quote I'll buy the first round. I don't care for beer, but I'll buy a pitcher for you guys. I'll have a margarita. Thanks. "America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DaVinci 0 #166 May 30, 2012 Quoteit was more about whether you are as indignant about people breaking the speeding laws as bout them breaking the voter laws. You can't see the difference between the two of those? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #167 May 30, 2012 QuoteQuoteit was more about whether you are as indignant about people breaking the speeding laws as bout them breaking the voter laws. You can't see the difference between the two of those? (as he revives another week old thread...let old dogs die, ffs.) Sure ... one kills thousands of Americans each year and the other....has no observed impact at all. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
matthewcline 0 #168 May 30, 2012 QuoteQuoteQuoteit was more about whether you are as indignant about people breaking the speeding laws as bout them breaking the voter laws. You can't see the difference between the two of those? (as he revives another week old thread...let old dogs die, ffs.) Sure ... one kills thousands of Americans each year and the other....has no observed impact at all. I think the "no observed impact at all' part is wrong, otherwise, why would there be video and print proof, or convictions? MattAn Instructors first concern is student safety. So, start being safe, first!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
davjohns 1 #169 May 30, 2012 QuoteQuoteQuoteit was more about whether you are as indignant about people breaking the speeding laws as bout them breaking the voter laws. You can't see the difference between the two of those? (as he revives another week old thread...let old dogs die, ffs.) Sure ... one kills thousands of Americans each year and the other....has no observed impact at all. Come on. Fight fair. There have been examples herein. You can't just pretend that voter fraud isn't real when the evidence has been presented to you.I know it just wouldnt be right to kill all the stupid people that we meet.. But do you think it would be appropriate to just remove all of the warning labels and let nature take its course. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #170 May 30, 2012 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteit was more about whether you are as indignant about people breaking the speeding laws as bout them breaking the voter laws. You can't see the difference between the two of those? (as he revives another week old thread...let old dogs die, ffs.) Sure ... one kills thousands of Americans each year and the other....has no observed impact at all. Come on. Fight fair. There have been examples herein. You can't just pretend that voter fraud isn't real when the evidence has been presented to you. Sure he can. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DaVinci 0 #171 May 30, 2012 Quoteas he revives another week old thread...let old dogs die, ffs Sorry, I don't live on here. you are free to ignore posts older than a week if you like, that does not mean I have to. QuoteSure ... one kills thousands of Americans each year and the other....has no observed impact at all. Considering the 2000 election was decided by 100-400 votes depending on the criteria used.... I'd disagree that there is no impact. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #172 May 30, 2012 Quote QuoteSure ... one kills thousands of Americans each year and the other....has no observed impact at all. Considering the 2000 election was decided by 100-400 votes depending on the criteria used.... I'd disagree that there is no impact. Bush won by those few hundred votes. Are you saying that he won by fraud? Somehow I don't think this was your intent. Evidence that a few random people cheated is not evidence of impact. Impact would be a stolen election. Or at the very least, fraudulent vote counts that come close to the known error of mechanical machines - at least 1%. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
davjohns 1 #173 May 30, 2012 QuoteQuote QuoteSure ... one kills thousands of Americans each year and the other....has no observed impact at all. Considering the 2000 election was decided by 100-400 votes depending on the criteria used.... I'd disagree that there is no impact. Bush won by those few hundred votes. Are you saying that he won by fraud? Somehow I don't think this was your intent. Evidence that a few random people cheated is not evidence of impact. Impact would be a stolen election. Or at the very least, fraudulent vote counts that come close to the known error of mechanical machines - at least 1%. I think you are intentionally missing the point. He pointed out an instance where a small number of votes turned an election. To say that a small number of fraudulent votes is 'no impact' is therefore illogical. I thought it was pretty clear.I know it just wouldnt be right to kill all the stupid people that we meet.. But do you think it would be appropriate to just remove all of the warning labels and let nature take its course. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #174 May 30, 2012 Quote He pointed out an instance where a small number of votes turned an election. To say that a small number of fraudulent votes is 'no impact' is therefore illogical. Potential is not the same thing as actually happening. As mentioned, thousands are dying due to speeding. That is a real result. As I wrote repeatedly, we best use our limited resources on actual problems, not imagined ones. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
matthewcline 0 #175 May 30, 2012 QuoteQuote He pointed out an instance where a small number of votes turned an election. To say that a small number of fraudulent votes is 'no impact' is therefore illogical. Potential is not the same thing as actually happening. As mentioned, thousands are dying due to speeding. That is a real result. As I wrote repeatedly, we best use our limited resources on actual problems, not imagined ones. Are you saying there is no voter fraud? MattAn Instructors first concern is student safety. So, start being safe, first!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
