Why we need Voter ID laws

[RonD1120 62]

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Since there is NO EVIDENCE of a problem with illegals voting, and there IS evidence of disenfranchisement of legal citizens, it seems the "cure" is there for purely political reasons only.

Like registering deceased Democrats in Chicago?

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[quade 4]

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He acted the same way Michael Moore acts. You want to imply since he's not a REAL JOURNALIST, then his actions are illegal and he should be charged with some crime, but it gets back to he exposed something inconvenient, so rather than debate it, open a can of whoop ass on the guy to discourage further examination.

I'd complain about the tactic whether he was a "real journalist" or not. Not that I brought up the term, you did.

Here, real what I wrote:

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Journalist (and O'Keefe is a questionable one at best) are not protected in the commission of crimes while researching stories.

I'll admit I question his journalistic credentials, but the point is that journalists are not shielded by their profession and allowed to commit criminal acts in pursuit of a story.

You bring up Michael Moore. Yes, he's an asshat, but if you notice he doesn't misrepresent himself as other people and especially not to government officials. He shows up in his baseball cap, baggy t-shirt and sweatpants and says he's Michael Moore.

People on the right like to talk about Katie Couric and her "Gotcha" journalism in dealing with Sarah Palin. Bullshit.

"Gotcha" journalism is putting on a disguise and showing up at a polling booth asking if a name is on a voter registration list and then getting all excited when some octogenarian poll worker makes the assumption you are, in fact, that person.

It's bullshit.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[mnealtx 0]

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He acted the same way Michael Moore acts. You want to imply since he's not a REAL JOURNALIST, then his actions are illegal and he should be charged with some crime, but it gets back to he exposed something inconvenient, so rather than debate it, open a can of whoop ass on the guy to discourage further examination.

I'd complain about the tactic whether he was a "real journalist" or not. Not that I brought up the term, you did.

Here, real what I wrote:

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Journalist (and O'Keefe is a questionable one at best) are not protected in the commission of crimes while researching stories.

I'll admit I question his journalistic credentials, but the point is that journalists are not shielded by their profession and allowed to commit criminal acts in pursuit of a story.

You bring up Michael Moore. Yes, he's an asshat, but if you notice he doesn't misrepresent himself as other people and especially not to government officials. He shows up in his baseball cap, baggy t-shirt and sweatpants and says he's Michael Moore.

People on the right like to talk about Katie Couric and her "Gotcha" journalism in dealing with Sarah Palin. Bullshit.

"Gotcha" journalism is putting on a disguise and showing up at a polling booth asking if a name is on a voter registration list and then getting all excited when some octogenarian poll worker makes the assumption you are, in fact, that person.

It's bullshit.

How about going to a bank and asking where his gun is for opening an account? Is that acceptable or 'gotcha' journalism?

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[kallend 2,148]

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Since there is NO EVIDENCE of a problem with illegals voting, and there IS evidence of disenfranchisement of legal citizens, it seems the "cure" is there for purely political reasons only.

Like registering deceased Democrats in Chicago?

They were LEGALLY dead. Please keep up.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[kelpdiver 2]

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People on the right like to talk about Katie Couric and her "Gotcha" journalism in dealing with Sarah Palin. Bullshit.

No, they were just sore losers because their candidate got exposed as a fraud. Just as you're sore here because he made his point so successfully.

Bullshit is the correct word for this.

Since you don't seem to be on the record for Bradley Manning...just curious to hear what you think should happen to him.

[RonD1120 62]

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Since there is NO EVIDENCE of a problem with illegals voting, and there IS evidence of disenfranchisement of legal citizens, it seems the "cure" is there for purely political reasons only.

Like registering deceased Democrats in Chicago?

They were LEGALLY dead. Please keep up.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[Southern_Man 0]

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like I asked, How will it deprive anyone of voting. who over 18 doesn't have some form of ID? name all the people you know that don't already have an ID.

I know at least six people off the top of my head.

not even a birth certificate or a social security number?

All of them have a valid social security number. I haven't checked recently but most of them have a valid social security card. Unfortunately the social security card is not to be used as identification so it can't be used to get a birth certificate or state issued ID card.

It used to be that I could take anybody into the local social security office and request another copy of their social security card without any requirement for additional ID, but recently they have been asking for ID there too.

I work with people without a birth certificate. It is difficult, but not impossible (depending on the state), to get a birth certificate unless you have at least two other forms of ID.

If somebody has a state issued ID it is relatively easy to get other forms of ID but it is difficult to get a state issued ID without other forms of ID, and difficult to get other forms of ID without a state issued one.

"What if there were no hypothetical questions?"

[Southern_Man 0]

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Really?

I await ANY specific examples

Just so you know
You can not get medicade treatment without a valid picture ID

I cant use my medical insurance without a valid picture ID

I could not have a weapon permit without a valid picture ID

I can not get a duplicate drivers license without my birth cert

But still, I will wait for your speific example

You certainly can get medical treatment without a valid picture ID, although more and more doctor offices are asking for that.

You can use both Medicare and Medicaid without a picture ID. Heck, most of the time you just need the number, not even the physical card although places prefer to have a copy of the card.

Nobody that I work with has a weapons permit (that I know of) so would not need ID for that purpose.

It is very difficult to get a driver's license or government issued ID card without a birth certificate and at least one other form of ID. I always advise people that if they already have an ID they should be very diligent about making sure it is renewed before it expires.

"What if there were no hypothetical questions?"

[Southern_Man 0]

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like I asked, How will it deprive anyone of voting. who over 18 doesn't have some form of ID? name all the people you know that don't already have an ID.

I know at least six people off the top of my head.

I'm sure you are being totally honest about this. How do these people survive? Are they mental incompetents that are completely dependent on someone else? I'm not trying to be funny. I'm just having a hard time figuring out how they get medical treatment, government benefits, etc. They clearly can not get a job because they can't turn in an I-9 with the required two forms of ID.

And to my second question...do we really want these people voting when they can't even get an ID for themselves?

I'm just having a hard time envisioning someone who has no form of ID, but can survive and wants to vote; unless they are an illegal alien or some other category that adds nothing to the discussion.

I work with people with intellectual disabiilties. The people I work with span a wide range of dependence and independence. Some of them are dependent on others for nearly everything.

In some cases the person may have had ID at one time but no longer does. In some cases they may have qualified for government benefits in a time of looser verification. In some current places I can still vouch for somebody's identity as somebody and help them get government benefits that way. Although the local social security office asks for ID sometimes the worker will take my word that somebody is who they say they are, etc.

Lack of ID can definitely be an issue. Of course different things qualify as ID in different settings-and I have to work with people at times to make sure they have the proper ID for what they need to do. Work is particularly difficult. Banking can also be very difficult and I have had to help people get ID so that they can cash checks or write checks at Wal-Mart, etc. The two best IDs are the birth certificate and the state issued ID, whether a driver's license of an equivalent ID card for non-drivers.

As for your second question, unless one of these folks have been adjudicated as incompetent by a court (which is a very small minority) then they are legally eligible to vote. I am required in certain cases to offer them the opportunity and help them register to vote as my office is covered by the motor-voter law. If the person expresses and interest in voting than I am more than happy to help them register and make arrangements for somebody to take them to vote. If they do not express a desire to vote, I don't help them do so. I personally want these people to have the opportunity to vote if they choose to do so.

There is currently no requirement for any ID to register to vote, I usually send the form in by mail. Virginia introduced and passed a vote ID law this spring which allows a pretty wide variety of documents to qualify as ID. I don't think anybody I work with would have an issue producing one of the listed documents. That law is under review by the justice department.

"What if there were no hypothetical questions?"

[Andy9o8 2]

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Since you don't seem to be on the record for Bradley Manning...just curious to hear what you think should happen to him.

I think he should sign with the Jets.

[quade 4]

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Since you don't seem to be on the record for Bradley Manning...just curious to hear what you think should happen to him.

Simple case of treason. He should go to prison for a long time.

I'm not sure what you're getting at. The circumstances are completely different and one case has no bearing on the other.

Manning was a member of the US Armed Forces and sworn to uphold a certain amount of secrecy. The only way I would have ever considered him a hero would have been if he had somehow cracked the military/industrial complex with the smoking gun of what ended up sending thousands of US soldiers to unnecessary deaths and brought to justice some secret illuminati of war criminals. But that wasn't the case, he cracked open and exposed some embarrassing documents that didn't help the situation in the world, he only made it worse. He was an asshat that jeopardized US soldiers and operatives.

A more analogous case to Manning would be the traitors that outed Valerie Plame.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[kelpdiver 2]

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Since you don't seem to be on the record for Bradley Manning...just curious to hear what you think should happen to him.

I think he should sign with the Jets.

isn't that a violation of the 8th Amendment?

[Gravitymaster 0]

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Why does everything have to be a problem before we do something about it? If Clinton had done something about OBL BEFORE 911, we wouldn't have had 3000 people die. Does an intersection have to have a few crashes before a traffic light is installed?

I posted a lonk earlier showing over 200 convictions for voter fraud in MInnisota, FYI which the pro-voter fraud crowd ignored.

So how much in taxes are you willing to spend on this non problem? I'm pretty sure you're aware of our trillion dollar deficit and I believe you'd like to pay less in taxes, not more. This fits into the category of "pet project" spending.

It took us 9 years in Afghanistan to kill OBL. Are you suggesting we should start 9 year wars in every nation that houses an asshole we don't like and has tried to pull shit against our interests? How much are you willing to pay on that front?

You ask: "Why does everything have to be a problem before we do something about it?" That sounds like a Democrat talking...the answer is that we don't have the money to deal with the known problems, let alone the hypothetical threats.

Right, because the cost of requiring someone to have ID in order to vote is equivalent to 9 years of war.

[mnealtx 0]

So, let's have the non-ID'ed voter and an accompanying witness fill out an affadavit with prints and digital photo at the voting location. Records to be open to the public, and if it turns out they *aren't* the person they say they are, both the fraudulent voter and their witness get an automatic 20 year, no parole prison term.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[Gravitymaster 0]

I'm in with that, as long as it's with hard labor.

[rhaig 0]

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Since there is NO EVIDENCE of a problem with illegals voting, and there IS evidence of disenfranchisement of legal citizens, it seems the "cure" is there for purely political reasons only.

Like registering deceased Democrats in Chicago?

They were LEGALLY dead. Please keep up.

I'm sorry. I cannot accept placing the dead on the voter rolls (legally or illegally) unless there is a current photo ID and a death certificate available at the time they're voting.

The undead? well, I suppose... there were enough "anybody but bush" mindless voters in 2008 to get Obama elected. Now we're going to have a whole new set of "anybody but " voters. And guess what, we'll have the same old problems.

--
Rob

[quade 4]

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The undead? well, I suppose... there were enough "anybody but bush" mindless voters in 2008 to get Obama elected.

I was unaware anybody on either side thought Bush was running in 2008. Certainly nobody I know voted "anybody but Bush."

Hmmm, learn something new every day.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[kelpdiver 2]

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Right, because the cost of requiring someone to have ID in order to vote is equivalent to 9 years of war.

You missed post 25, quoting YOUR OWN FUCKING SOURCE! This is several million bucks for just Georgia, which is 3% of the nation's population.

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In fact, the state conducted a statewide, multimedia education campaign prior to six elections between September 2007 and the November 2008 general election. That included sending out over 5 million pieces of direct mail and utility bill inserts to individual voters, as well as 633 packages of 57,000 brochures and other materials to chambers of commerce, churches, libraries, and other nongovernment organizations all over the state.

The state also ran over 60,000 radio public service announcements (PSAs) and 1,232 video PSAs that ran during newscasts, traffic reports, and Atlanta Braves games. Home games of the Atlanta Falcons football team even featured end-zone-to-end-zone LED banners directing fans to the state’s website for more information on the voter ID requirement, and 400 ads were placed on buses operated by the Metropolitan Atlanta Rapid Transit Authority.

[Gravitymaster 0]

Your ability to misunderstand is a bit breath-taking. The money Georgia spent was to give them data to defend against lawsuits that they knew would surely follow passage of this law. It does not mean this would be an ongoing expense.

But I get it. Since the Pro-Voter Fraud crowd's argument that this would disenfranchise minority and poor voters was obliterated in this study, they have to find some other argument to hide the fact that they want illegals to be able to vote for Democrats.

Did you miss this part?

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Georgia’s experience with minority voters also directly refutes the claims that voter ID laws somehow prevent racial minorities from voting.

Pretty much shuts down that claim, wouldn't you agree?

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In both federal elections held in Georgia since its voter ID became effective, the increase in turnout of Hispanic and black voters dwarfed the increase in turnout of white voters. As shown by these data—as well as the fact that federal and state courts in Georgia dismissed lawsuits filed against the Georgia voter ID law that had claimed it was both unconstitutional and discriminatory—voter ID requirements can be easily met by almost all voters and do not have a discriminatory or disparate impact on racial minorities. Georgia’s experience also shows that the number of voters who do not already have an acceptable photo ID is very small.

[rushmc 23]

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Your ability to misunderstand is a bit breath-taking. The money Georgia spent was to give them data to defend against lawsuits that they knew would surely follow passage of this law. It does not mean this would be an ongoing expense.

But I get it. Since the Pro-Voter Fraud crowd's argument that this would disenfranchise minority and poor voters was obliterated in this study, they have to find some other argument to hide the fact that they want illegals to be able to vote for Democrats.

Did you miss this part?

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Georgia’s experience with minority voters also directly refutes the claims that voter ID laws somehow prevent racial minorities from voting.

Pretty much shuts down that claim, wouldn't you agree?

ouch

this one is gonna leave a mark

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rhaig 0]

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The undead? well, I suppose... there were enough "anybody but bush" mindless voters in 2008 to get Obama elected.

I was unaware anybody on either side thought Bush was running in 2008. Certainly nobody I know voted "anybody but Bush."

Hmmm, learn something new every day.

you totally missed out on one aspect of the campaign then. the "it's all bush's fault, so elect anyone else" and they assumed that McCain would be just like Bush. They didn't account for the fact that Obama was just as much of a puppet.

--
Rob

[quade 4]

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you totally missed out on one aspect of the campaign then. the "it's all bush's fault, so elect anyone else" and they assumed that McCain would be just like Bush. They didn't account for the fact that Obama was just as much of a puppet.

No. You missed the point. Bush wasn't running. "Anyone else" was all there was.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[DaVinci 0]

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It's not a matter of whether the ability to commit voter fraud is there; sure it is. It's a question of whether in practice it's enough of a problem - quantitatively - that it needs a solution. And it doesn't.

Yet this is a Govt that is trying to mandate that I prove I have insurance or pay a fine.

Asking for ID to vote should be required... And free ID's should be given to those that do not have any other ID.

You need and ID to do so many things.... Voting should be one of them.

[kallend 2,148]

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It's not a matter of whether the ability to commit voter fraud is there; sure it is. It's a question of whether in practice it's enough of a problem - quantitatively - that it needs a solution. And it doesn't.

Yet this is a Govt that is trying to mandate that I prove I have insurance or pay a fine.

Irrelevant.

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Asking for ID to vote should be required... And free ID's should be given to those that do not have any other ID.

.

This would seem a reasonable solution.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[kelpdiver 2]

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Your ability to misunderstand is a bit breath-taking. The money Georgia spent was to give them data to defend against lawsuits that they knew would surely follow passage of this law. It does not mean this would be an ongoing expense.

It is still a multi million dollar expense tbat is necessary, not optional. You tried to claim it would only cost a few people some small bucks. Stop pretending to be a fiscal conservative already.

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Georgia’s experience with minority voters also directly refutes the claims that voter ID laws somehow prevent racial minorities from voting.

Pretty much shuts down that claim, wouldn't you agree?

If you take it (and the Heritage Foundation) at face value, yes. I highlighted the concerns that would need to be addressed - namely that the Obama campaign was responsible for a dramatic increase in youth and minority participation.

What is not open to debate is the considerable cost that, for the 100th time, does not address a real problem.