Why we need Voter ID laws

[davjohns 1]

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I have no idea what your last argument was supposed to mean. I think you changed topics without a transitional phrase or sentence.

I've argued that the tens or hundreds of even thousands of cases of voter fraud in an election pale to the > 1% count error endemic to vote counting, which would be 1 million missed votes in a major election for the US. So even if you take your dozens of examples and multiply them by 100 for the presumed missed events, you've struggling to get a number that is even 1/10th as big.

So, until we can fix everything, we should fix nothing? I'm pretty sure people are working on a more accurate way of accounting for votes. Why would that keep us from making those votes more credible individually?

I know it just wouldnt be right to kill all the stupid people that we meet..

But do you think it would be appropriate to just remove all of the warning labels and let nature take its course.

[rushmc 23]

I think you are on to something

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Florida, at the urging of Republican Gov. Rick Scott, began looking for non-U.S. citizens on its voter rolls last year. An initial search turned up as many as 182,000 registered voters who may not be U.S. citizens.

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[DaVinci 0]

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Try to get this through that skull of your's

Ah yes, when out of intellect... Throw insults.

Do not blame me that you are unable to admit you are wrong and instead have to resort to these types of tactics.

FACT: The FL election was so close that we will never really know the result. Fraud happens on both sides, miscounts happen on both sides.

Your BS emotional claim and throwing of insults are just your attempt to avoid being wrong.

[wmw999 2,588]

Here is an article about that. It goes into some detail why non-Republicans are disproportionately impacted by this.

I'm going to suggest that timing it so that people are disqualified close to the election, so that a lot of them who are in fact eligible don't get around to registering again in time, is part of the plan.

The upshot of the article is that the source of "non-citizen" determination is a driver's license database that doesn't have citizenship status updated regularly. Some counties are apparently really trying to make sure that the status is correct/corrected, others are just sending out notes saying "you're disqualified, sucks to be you, if you're eligible, hope you get registered again in time (NOT)"

Wendy P.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[rushmc 23]

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Here is an article about that. It goes into some detail why non-Republicans are disproportionately impacted by this.

I'm going to suggest that timing it so that people are disqualified close to the election, so that a lot of them who are in fact eligible don't get around to registering again in time, is part of the plan.

The upshot of the article is that the source of "non-citizen" determination is a driver's license database that doesn't have citizenship status updated regularly. Some counties are apparently really trying to make sure that the status is correct/corrected, others are just sending out notes saying "you're disqualified, sucks to be you, if you're eligible, hope you get registered again in time (NOT)"

Wendy P.

Wendy P.

What difference does party make?

If you are disqualified so be it

We are a country of laws

We need to follow them

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[wmw999 2,588]

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What difference does party make?

Well, in a tightly-contested election, a push to enforce laws that will disproportionately affect one party and not the other is likely to be seen as machiavellian.

And it's not like the people doing the enforcing didn't think of it most likely, too. Yeah, the law is the law. But when the po-po start enforcing speed laws only in the rich neighborhoods, and not in the poor ones, do you think someone won't notice?

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[rushmc 23]

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What difference does party make?

Well, in a tightly-contested election, a push to enforce laws that will disproportionately affect one party and not the other is likely to be seen as machiavellian.

And it's not like the people doing the enforcing didn't think of it most likely, too. Yeah, the law is the law. But when the po-po start enforcing speed laws only in the rich neighborhoods, and not in the poor ones, do you think someone won't notice?

Wendy P.

Well that only would happen then when you have a disproprotionate number of law breakers now wouldnt it

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[davjohns 1]

I've gotten rather skeptical of conspiracy theories as the years go by. I see what you are saying and I definitely agree it is suspicious enough to question. At the same time, I think conspiracy theories often give government and political parties too much credit. My experience has been that you can't get enough people to agree and head in the right direction long enough for a good conspiracy.

I find things like this are most often a result of incompetence rather than malice. Worth investigating, but likely just ineptness at a suspicious time. I would be completely unsurprised to find that this move was directed years ago and the approach of the elections caused someone to finally do their job.

I know it just wouldnt be right to kill all the stupid people that we meet..

But do you think it would be appropriate to just remove all of the warning labels and let nature take its course.

[wmw999 2,588]

Well, it happens in election years; it's clear that it's because that's when they think about it, but it's equally clear that if it was a problem in the last election year, maybe, just maybe, it should be done earlier the next time.

That whole fix the hole in the roof before it starts raining.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[wmw999 2,588]

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Well that only would happen then when you have a disproprotionate number of law breakers now wouldnt it

And if you make an enforcement push on laws that people you favor tend to follow, and don't bother with the ones that people you favor tend to ignore, it's a happy ending all over, isn't it?

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[rushmc 23]

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Well that only would happen then when you have a disproprotionate number of law breakers now wouldnt it

And if you make an enforcement push on laws that people you favor tend to follow, and don't bother with the ones that people you favor tend to ignore, it's a happy ending all over, isn't it?

Wendy P.

Well ok then Wendy

You pick which laws we follow and which we dont

They you will be happy

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[davjohns 1]

Fully agree. If they reviewed it annually, there would still be some people complaining in election years, but it would be a tempest in a teacup.

I know it just wouldnt be right to kill all the stupid people that we meet..

But do you think it would be appropriate to just remove all of the warning labels and let nature take its course.

[matthewcline 0]

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Well, it happens in election years; it's clear that it's because that's when they think about it, but it's equally clear that if it was a problem in the last election year, maybe, just maybe, it should be done earlier the next time.

That whole fix the hole in the roof before it starts raining.

Wendy P.

Most of the laws have been getting pushed for, long, before this election cycle, they are just getting attention now, as it is relevant "news".

Matt

An Instructors first concern is student safety.
So, start being safe, first!!!

[wmw999 2,588]

It's the roll purges that tend to happen right before elections.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[matthewcline 0]

Well, they tend to be fought against pretty hard for 12 to 18 months and Elections, they do run every two years, more or less yes?

It is not a Right or Left only issue, they all do it, just from different sides, as it suits them.

In years past it was a loud call from DNC, and now a loud call from the RNC, same issue, similar actions.

It needs to be done, reasonably, always.

Matt

An Instructors first concern is student safety.
So, start being safe, first!!!

[Gravitymaster 0]

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2012/06/05/report-voter-turnout-119-percent-in-madison

Yep, no problem here.

[funjumper101 15]

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http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2012/06/05/report-voter-turnout-119-percent-in-madison

Yep, no problem here.

You mean to say that people who follow the law, as it was written and interpreted by the US and Wisconsin legal system are doing something wrong?

What a load of bullshit!!!!

Right Wing Shitbags are all about following the law, etc, etc, right up until the law permits things that Right Wing Shitbags have been told by their masters is bad. Then they get all huffy and post links to immensely stupid articles from their leaders.

Either you have respect for the law, or you don't. You don't get to have it both ways. Unless, of course, you are a follower of the corporate right wing movement, with no capacity for independent, critical thinking. Then you can be as much of a hypocrite as your leaders, while being blind to the hipocrisy.

This is exactly the same kind of thinking that has the teascumbags talking about how much they love the constitution, while advocating getting rid of the 14th amendment and other parts of the constitution their leaders tell them is bad. Disgusting stooges led by Dick Armey and the Koch brothers.

[davjohns 1]

Ummm...someone posts a link to an article that shows something is clearly rotten in Wisconsin voting...and you blast him with insults?

Credibility ratings can actually be negative for some people. Welcome to that category.

I know it just wouldnt be right to kill all the stupid people that we meet..

But do you think it would be appropriate to just remove all of the warning labels and let nature take its course.

[Gravitymaster 0]

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Ummm...someone posts a link to an article that shows something is clearly rotten in Wisconsin voting...and you blast him with insults?

Credibility ratings can actually be negative for some people. Welcome to that category.

This is what happens when people spend too much time on left-wing websites. It rots the brain.

[rushmc 23]

Walker wins!

Cant be a better argument for voter ID laws

Now way he could win unless the Republicans cheated.

Right?

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[davjohns 1]

How many times did YOU vote? :)

I know it just wouldnt be right to kill all the stupid people that we meet..

But do you think it would be appropriate to just remove all of the warning labels and let nature take its course.

[popsjumper 2]

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go back to 1960 in Illinois for a relevant event. Not exactly current times, though.

well, pretty current for Kallend, or popsjumper anyway

Kids these days....



We should have had voter ID right from the get-go.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[kelpdiver 2]

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Ummm...someone posts a link to an article that shows something is clearly rotten in Wisconsin voting...and you blast him with insults?

It showed nothing of the sort. People can register at the polls in that state, apparently. But that aside, it's third hand he said he said, appears to have been misread, and wasn't cited well to start with.

It shows what reaching for straws looks like.

[davjohns 1]

I hope it is all due to voter registration at the polls. It just seems like one of those things that should be checked out when better than 100% turnout is expected. If they were required to show ID, we would have a better idea if anything was going on. I know this is a big issue in WI, but those kinds of numbers raise eyebrows unless you are determined beforehand that nothing is going on.

I know it just wouldnt be right to kill all the stupid people that we meet..

But do you think it would be appropriate to just remove all of the warning labels and let nature take its course.

[kelpdiver 2]

making a mountain out of an ant hill: 20 seconds with google:

http://www.dmv.org/wi-wisconsin/voter-registration.php#Register-on-Election-Day
Register on Election Day

Wisconsin election laws make it easy to register to vote, and you can even register to vote at your local polling place on the day of the election if you are not already registered.

Be sure to bring:

Your Wisconsin driver license. Or, if you do not own one, have either your Social Security number or ID card.

Proof residency.