Is Some Homophobia Self-Phobia?

[RonD1120 62]

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>The homosexual lifestyle creates problems.

So does the heterosexual lifestyle. Indeed, so far the evidence says that if you are a child, you are much better off if you're with homosexual than with heterosexual parents. Heterosexual parents can get pregnant out of stupidity and lust, whereas homosexual parents have to be approved by either a doctor or the government.

A while back, an anti-gay group (the National Association for Marriage) budgeted $120,000 to find a child willing to denounce their gay parents on camera. They failed. And yet you see children of straight parents denouncing their parents all the time on Jerry Springer. There's a lesson there.

>One of the problems this lifestyle produces is the emergence of whacko
>groups like the Westboro Baptist Church. They picket and protest at
>military funerals, enhancing the grief of the family survivors.

Yes. And they believe what you do about homosexuals. They're just a lot more rude about it.

>The reason they exist is because of the move in America to accept
>homosexual marriage and abortion.

Yep. In the same way that rapists exist because of good looking women.

Eventually, though, people like yourself and the Westboro Baptists will be replaced by a new generation of people who do not despise homosexuality, and will see it as no more immoral than interracial marriage. And the problem will disappear.

I totally disagree with your statement that children are better off with homosexual parents.

I agree with your last statement. I have said before, homosexuality is becoming more acceptable in American society. Thus my conclusion that our moral compass is pointing in a hell bound direction.

Even so, come Lord Jesus.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[RonD1120 62]

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That's remarkable. First you paint a picture of gays as a group that's going to destroy American society, and then you claim they should have equal rights.

I disagree with the first part of your statement. Gays as a group are only a part of the moral decay in America. There are many more sinful ills that are destroying us.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[Coreece 190]

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That's remarkable. First you paint a picture of gays as a group that's going to destroy American society, and then you claim they should have equal rights.

Ok, fine then...feed 'em to the lions.

You protest too much dude...

Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are...

[SkyDekker 1,465]

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Even so, come Lord Jesus.

Are you trying to make him come?

[Marinus 0]

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Exactly, so why spend the extra time and money on film and "no-name" nude talent for extended sex scenes that do nothing to enhance the plot and minimize the audience on top of that...Also, big name actors is what bring people in, and often those actors may not feel comfortable exposing themselves.

But sex does enhance the plot. Not for the erotic value, but because it's an activity that's very important to humans. This doesn't mean that every flick should have sex-scenes, but when sex is important to the plot, and it often is, why not portray it in a proper way. Why can't you just be more European

(Who am I kidding, 'mericans and Euros just love to bitch about each other, why should we want to spoil that.)

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Media is one of Americas last big industries, we can't survive without it and we're learning to maximize profits...We basically have a base public standard for general broadcasting that appeals to all people with outlets for various genres that appeal to smaller groups. I don't see anything wrong with that.

So the economic side is important after all.

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I think we could be a little more open it that regard, but we do have educational public broadcasting where they don't hesitate to show things like live births or jungle titties in Africa...for the most part people here aren't offended by that. I went to Catholic school were we learn about sex in science class. We watched videos of live births, and there it was, a women with her legs a spread - a gaping vagina as if it were to swallow me whole...we were all 11-12 years old...nobody bitched and moaned. There is a time and a place.

I personally think teens should be reasonably comfortable with the subject sex as soon as they hit puberty around 13-14 or so. Heaven forbid they get adventurous too soon, 16 is early enough in my book, but if they do (and some always will) it's better if they know a thing or two. The first thing would be how to use a condom. Gaping vaginas are cool enough, but not before the twenties pretty please.

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Again, this is just a small minority of people who were offended and it all got blown out of proportion on multiple levels.

around 0,5% of the US population was offended enough to file an official complaint. That's a staggering reaction to a nipple in my book.

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We've also learned how to make money off controversy as well.

We do to, but we need something better than a nipple to cause one.

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Do you really think they give a shit about the children?

No, I don't think that, it's more about pushing certain puritan values I suspect.

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Government is very much involved in the affairs of Hollywood. When I worked in CA the FBI was constantly and literally looking over our shoulder...and this was a private company! I had to go through a series of visual checkpoints, then card access checkpoints, then card-and-thumb print access check points and this only got me into the core of the building where I worked...I still had to got through another series of checkpoints to get to the main vault that housed almost every film and TV show from the major studios, where I was only 1 of 3 people who had access, and 2 of us had to be present to get in using simultaneous entry methods...I thought it was overkill, but the FBI didn't mess around. A blockbuster hit was once stolen months before theatrical release and sold to Inda and China...We lost hundreds of Millions.

I think that's damn scary. I would feel very uncomfortable if our media were controlled by the state.

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Furthermore, sex is actually a big business in this country...by keeping it 'hidden' we keep the demand high and can charge premium prices.

The same way you make big bucks of drugs by keeping it hidden/illegal? I don't think so. unless "premium prices" is newspeak for teen pregnancies or something.

[Marinus 0]

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You protest too much dude...

Yes, I'm known as a pro-gay extremist on these boards. I'm the feared swaffler of homophobes on a mission to root out heterosexuality Christian homophobia. Well, in reality I'm just curious. That type of opinion is at best rare over here (as in: never encountered it) . I just want to know how he thinks. Yes I know, how Anthropologist of me.....

[Coreece 190]

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This doesn't mean that every flick should have sex-scenes, but when sex is important to the plot, and it often is, why not portray it in a proper way.

We portray sex in film, period...we just don't over do it.

...and if your qualms are about sex not being portrayed in the proper way, then perhaps gay sex shouldn't be portrayed at all? Didn't you even say something like homosexuality being some type of evolutionary genetic flaw?

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Why can't you just be more European

Why can't you just except that fact that other countries have different cultures than yours and quite bitching and trying to make everything conform to YOUR standards?

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So the economic side is important after all.

For investors, that's all that's important.

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around 0,5% of the US population was offended enough to file an official complaint. That's a staggering reaction to a nipple in my book.

which leaves 99.5% of America that didn't give a shit...

I also question their motives...Maybe they were just haters looking for any reason to bitch and moan, like you Europeans that hate America and nit pick over stupid shit that happen almost a decade ago.

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it's more about pushing certain puritan values I suspect.

YA...the FCC is in the business of pushing puritan values...sure.

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I think that's damn scary. I would feel very uncomfortable if our media were controlled by the state.

The company I worked for 'voluntarily' opened their doors to the FBI. I'm not at liberty to disclose the details...

Personally I think Hollywood is ridiculous, but I understand why they do what they do. I have all but just about severed my connection to them.

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he same way you make big bucks of drugs by keeping it hidden/illegal? I don't think so.

It's not illegal...absolute terrible analogy, absolutely.

Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are...

[Marinus 0]

I see, you're having your period. I'll get back at you tomorrow.

[Coreece 190]

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I see, you're having your period. I'll get back at you tomorrow.

Sorry to have lit the fuse on your manpon, sweetheart.

Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are...

[Marinus 0]

Unlike Witness Houston, I will always love you, Sweety.

[billvon 3,116]

Both of you - enough. Your one warning.

[billvon 3,116]

>I totally disagree with your statement that children are better off with
>homosexual parents.


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From Time/Science:

The teen years are never the easiest for any family to navigate. But could they be even more challenging for children and parents in households headed by gay parents?

That is the question researchers explored in the first study ever to track children raised by lesbian parents, from birth to adolescence . . .

The authors found that children raised by lesbian mothers — whether the mother was partnered or single — scored very similarly to children raised by heterosexual parents on measures of development and social behavior. These findings were expected, the authors said; however, they were surprised to discover that children in lesbian homes scored higher than kids in straight families on some psychological measures of self-esteem and confidence, did better academically and were less likely to have behavioral problems, such as rule-breaking and aggression.

"We simply expected to find no difference in psychological adjustment between adolescents reared in lesbian families and the normative sample of age-matched controls," says Gartrell. "I was surprised to find that on some measures we found higher levels of [psychological] competency and lower levels of behavioral problems. It wasn't something I anticipated."

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[RonD1120 62]

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>I totally disagree with your statement that children are better off with
>homosexual parents.


==========

From Time/Science:

The teen years are never the easiest for any family to navigate. But could they be even more challenging for children and parents in households headed by gay parents?

That is the question researchers explored in the first study ever to track children raised by lesbian parents, from birth to adolescence . . .

The authors found that children raised by lesbian mothers — whether the mother was partnered or single — scored very similarly to children raised by heterosexual parents on measures of development and social behavior. These findings were expected, the authors said; however, they were surprised to discover that children in lesbian homes scored higher than kids in straight families on some psychological measures of self-esteem and confidence, did better academically and were less likely to have behavioral problems, such as rule-breaking and aggression.

"We simply expected to find no difference in psychological adjustment between adolescents reared in lesbian families and the normative sample of age-matched controls," says Gartrell. "I was surprised to find that on some measures we found higher levels of [psychological] competency and lower levels of behavioral problems. It wasn't something I anticipated."

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Interesting, now is that study published by the liberal magazine Time?

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[billvon 3,116]

>Interesting, now is that study published by the liberal magazine Time?

Nope. Published by Nanette Gartrell (UCLA) and Henry Bos (University of Amsterdam.)

[kelpdiver 2]

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Media is one of Americas last big industries, we can't survive without it and we're learning to maximize profits...We basically have a base public standard for general broadcasting that appeals to all people with outlets for various genres that appeal to smaller groups. I don't see anything wrong with that.

I liked it better when you said they emphasised the quality of the script and story telling. But this description is much more accurate.

[Coreece 190]

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I liked it better when you said they emphasised the quality of the script and story telling.

Ya, that was bit of a stretch...my bad. I suppose that's just the standard I would've liked to have had for myself.

Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are...

[RonD1120 62]

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>Interesting, now is that study published by the liberal magazine Time?

Nope. Published by Nanette Gartrell (UCLA) and Henry Bos (University of Amsterdam.)

I tried to find a corresponding study where children raised by gay parents were compared to children raised by heterosexual Christian parents. There seems to be a void in the overall study in that category.

Your study was with lesbian parents. That is understandable since women were created to be the nurturers and teachers by design.

The kids probably would not fair as well with homosexual male parents.

At any rate, the answer seems clear. If liberal children develop better with lesbian parents then welfare children should be removed from the ghettos/barrios and placed with lesbians.

Liberals caring for liberals makes good sense to me. It is the forcing of conservatives to care for liberals that is bothersome.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[kelpdiver 2]

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around 0,5% of the US population was offended enough to file an official complaint. That's a staggering reaction to a nipple in my book.

which leaves 99.5% of America that didn't give a shit...

But remember that the FCC applies a multiplier to every complaint as most people can't be bothered. By their math, at least a billion Americans were outraged.

[billvon 3,116]

>The kids probably would not fair as well with homosexual male parents.

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Study: Same-Sex Parents Raise Well-Adjusted Kids

Researchers Say Children Who Grow Up in Households With Gay Parents Have Normal Self-Esteem

WebMD Health News
Reviewed by Louise Chang, MD

Oct.12, 2005 (Washington) -- Children growing up in same-sex parental households do not necessarily have differences in self-esteem, gender identity, or emotional problems from children growing up in heterosexual parent homes.

"There are a lot of children with at least one gay or lesbian parent," says Ellen C. Perrin, MD, professor of pediatrics at Tufts University School of Medicine in Boston. She revealed the findings at the American Academy of Pediatrics Conference and Exhibition.

Between 1 million and 6 million children in the U.S. are being reared by committed lesbian or gay couples, she says. Children being raised by same-sex parents were either born to a heterosexual couple, adopted, or conceived through artificial insemination.

"The vast consensus of all the studies shows that children of same-sex parents do as well as children whose parents are heterosexual in every way," she tells WebMD. "In some ways children of same-sex parents actually may have advantages over other family structures."
=======================
Children of Lesbian and Gay Parents

Charlotte J. Patterson

Article first published online: 28 JUN 2008

Child Development Volume 63, Issue 5, pages 1025–1042
Additional Information(Show All)


This paper reviews research evidence regarding the personal and social development of children with gay and lesbian parents. Beginning with estimates of the numbers of such children, sociocultural, theoretical, and legal reasons for attention to their development are then outlined. In this context, research studies on sexual identity, personal development, and social relationships among these children are then reviewed. These studies include assessment of possible differences between children with gay or lesbian versus heterosexual parents as well as research on sources of diversity among children of gay and lesbian parents. Research on these topics is relatively new, and many important questions have yet to be addressed. To date, however, there is no evidence that the development of children with lesbian or gay parents is compromised in any significant respect relative to that among children of heterosexual parents in otherwise comparable circumstances.
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[RonD1120 62]

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To date, however, there is no evidence that the development of children with lesbian or gay parents is compromised in any significant respect relative to that among children of heterosexual parents in otherwise comparable circumstances.
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OK.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[stevebabin 0]

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To date, however, there is no evidence that the development of children with lesbian or gay parents is compromised in any significant respect relative to that among children of heterosexual parents in otherwise comparable circumstances.
=======================

OK.

Glad you now see that you're wrong.
Now if you could see that the rest of your religious beliefs are also incorrect you'd be getting somewhere.

"Science, logic and reason will fly you to the moon. Religion will fly you into buildings."
"Because figuring things out is always better than making shit up."

[RonD1120 62]

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To date, however, there is no evidence that the development of children with lesbian or gay parents is compromised in any significant respect relative to that among children of heterosexual parents in otherwise comparable circumstances.
=======================

OK.

Glad you now see that you're wrong.
Now if you could see that the rest of your religious beliefs are also incorrect you'd be getting somewhere.

I accepted the reference to the study. Think of the children. All the welfare children should be placed with lesbian parents. Please keep up.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[Marinus 0]

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...and if your qualms are about sex not being portrayed in the proper way, then perhaps gay sex shouldn't be portrayed at all? Didn't you even say something like homosexuality being some type of evolutionary genetic flaw?

I don't especially care for gay-sex being portrayed in movies, but it exist in reality, so when it fits the plot. As for it being a genetic flaw: it looks more and more that it's a by-product of a huge genetic advantage, namely a higher reproduction in women. In my case this is completely true, the women in my family have on average much more children then average women.

While evolutionary seen my life is an exercise in futility because I poke around in al the wrong places, my genes are EXTREMELY successfully. Don't forget that my family shares part of my genome, and my family is HUGE. (my late grannies have a combined off-spring of 1000+ people, could be as high as 1500 even) So while I don't reproduce myself, parts of my genome are reproduced by others. That the case for everyone, including breeders, but since my family is extremely big, my genes are probably out-competing everyone else's genes as we speak.

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***Why can't you just be more European
Why can't you just except that fact that other countries have different cultures than yours and quite bitching and trying to make everything conform to YOUR standards?

I'm glad we agree you're quote mining here.

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which leaves 99.5% of America that didn't give a shit...

99,5% didn't make a phone-call.

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I also question their motives...Maybe they were just haters looking for any reason to bitch and moan, like you Europeans that hate America and nit pick over stupid shit that happen almost a decade ago.

I question the motive of everyone with nipplephobia. And there's plenty of Americans that bitch and moan and get historical about Europe, At least we bitch about a country that we're able to find on the world map.

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It's not illegal...absolute terrible analogy, absolutely.

That's true, I matched the level of you argument that's in short that Americans are generally hysterical about sex to make money.

[Marinus 0]

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heterosexual Christian parents.

I think that in general strict religious parents tend to have more unwanted children than non-religious and moderate religious parents. The non-religious and moderate religious tend to be more often pro-choice and pro-anti-conception, so they will be more likely to end or prevent unwanted pregnancies.

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Your study was with lesbian parents. That is understandable since women were created to be the nurturers and teachers by design.

The kids probably would not fair as well with homosexual male parents.

There's enough men that are good nurturers and teachers, and I expect that part to be even higher in gay males. And those are the gay males that will want kids. The main difference between women and gay males is, that in gay males the Non-nurteres and unteachers (like me for example) don't get knocked up by accident. Besides that: we life in a society in which even the most unfit people are allowed to get children. Gays males that really want kids are your least problem. Single fathers would be a bigger problem and those are usually (and this is of course often completely reasonable) not seen as a big problem group in a world were even disease ridden homeless junkies have babies.

As in all cases, I think adopting a child in a world that's full of orphans is more desirable than making one, but I understand why people want their own child. After all it's the most natural thing in the world.

[RonD1120 62]

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I understand why people want their own child. After all it's the most natural thing in the world.

Hmmm!, Your phraseology begs the question, what is the most unnatural thing in the world?

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.