Unreasonable search and seizure

[DaVinci 0]

Quote

The right of the people to be secure in their persons,

The right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.
Seems pretty simple, but you take issue with it.

You are trying to distort, this guy was not searched because he was arrested. He was searched because he was going to be put into jail. You don't complain about the TSA not letting me carry a gun on a plane even though it can be said that it steps on the 2nd.

[kallend 2,146]

Quote

Quote

The right of the people to be secure in their persons,

The right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.
Seems pretty simple, but you take issue with it.

You are trying to distort, this guy was not searched because he was arrested. He was searched because he was going to be put into jail. You don't complain about the TSA not letting me carry a gun on a plane even though it can be said that it steps on the 2nd.

You can always volunteer to be searched - like when you choose to fly on a commercial airliner.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[DaVinci 0]

Quote

You can always volunteer to be searched - like when you choose to fly on a commercial airliner.

OK, you are fine with me not being allowed protection under the 2nd when I have to go to a court.... I just got a mandatory subpena because I was a witness to a crime. I HAVE to go, and they WILL disarm me. You OK with that?

You are trying to distort, this guy was not searched because he was arrested. He was searched because he was going to be put into jail.

[kelpdiver 2]

Quote

Here is a suggestion.... Run admitted persons through a body scanner like we have at an airport if correctional personnel are so concerned about contraband.

we already know that those scanners are not effective for searching for anything in this location. Which of course begs the question, why the fuck are we spending billions and pissing off so many people for something that obviously doesn't fix the problem?

[kallend 2,146]

Quote

Quote

You can always volunteer to be searched - like when you choose to fly on a commercial airliner.

OK, you are fine with me not being allowed protection under the 2nd when I have to go to a court.... I just got a mandatory subpena because I was a witness to a crime. I HAVE to go, and they WILL disarm me. You OK with that?

You are trying to distort, this guy was not searched because he was arrested. He was searched because he was going to be put into jail.

Right - administrative convenience, not because they had any probable cause to believe he had contraband.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[mnealtx 0]

Quote

Quote

Quote

You can always volunteer to be searched - like when you choose to fly on a commercial airliner.

OK, you are fine with me not being allowed protection under the 2nd when I have to go to a court.... I just got a mandatory subpena because I was a witness to a crime. I HAVE to go, and they WILL disarm me. You OK with that?

You are trying to distort, this guy was not searched because he was arrested. He was searched because he was going to be put into jail.

Right - administrative convenience, not because they had any probable cause to believe he had contraband.

Yet you want gun owners to go through psych evals without any probable cause that they have mental illness.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[kelpdiver 2]

Quote

Quote

Right - administrative convenience, not because they had any probable cause to believe he had contraband.

Yet you want gun owners to go through psych evals without any probable cause that they have mental illness.

that one is going to sting a little!

[rehmwa 2]

Quote

Yet you want gun owners to go through psych evals without any probable cause that they have mental illness.

except the dr wins -

if they refuse - no guns
if they allow an eval (including the rectal one) - no guns because clearly they are crazy for accepting an eval

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[kallend 2,146]

Quote

Quote

Quote

Quote

You can always volunteer to be searched - like when you choose to fly on a commercial airliner.

OK, you are fine with me not being allowed protection under the 2nd when I have to go to a court.... I just got a mandatory subpena because I was a witness to a crime. I HAVE to go, and they WILL disarm me. You OK with that?

You are trying to distort, this guy was not searched because he was arrested. He was searched because he was going to be put into jail.

Right - administrative convenience, not because they had any probable cause to believe he had contraband.

Yet you want gun owners to go through psych evals without any probable cause that they have mental illness.

Only the crazy ones.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[mnealtx 0]

Quote

Quote

Quote

Quote

Quote

You can always volunteer to be searched - like when you choose to fly on a commercial airliner.

OK, you are fine with me not being allowed protection under the 2nd when I have to go to a court.... I just got a mandatory subpena because I was a witness to a crime. I HAVE to go, and they WILL disarm me. You OK with that?

You are trying to distort, this guy was not searched because he was arrested. He was searched because he was going to be put into jail.

Right - administrative convenience, not because they had any probable cause to believe he had contraband.

Yet you want gun owners to go through psych evals without any probable cause that they have mental illness.

Only the crazy ones.

How do you know they're crazy without the evals? Your future telepathy machine? Youtube video diagnosis? Superlative google skills?

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[SkyChimp 0]

Quote

Quote

Here is a suggestion.... Run admitted persons through a body scanner like we have at an airport if correctional personnel are so concerned about contraband.

we already know that those scanners are not effective for searching for anything in this location. Which of course begs the question, why the fuck are we spending billions and pissing off so many people for something that obviously doesn't fix the problem?

I was never a fan of them. I was just making the point that strip searching is BS based on an unpaid fine.

Does anyone else find it funny that we made a SPORT out of an EMERGENCY PROCEDURE?!?!

[kelpdiver 2]

Quote

I was never a fan of them. I was just making the point that strip searching is BS based on an unpaid fine.

We've already covered that the detail of the unpaid fine is irrelevant to the issue.

[sfzombie 3]

3 pages of comments on this? are you guys serious? how many of you actually believe any of the bs you are spouting? when you get taken to jail, they are going to search you to make sure you are not bringing contraband inside, period, end of discussion. nothing can be debated on this issue, ever. there are innocent people working inside(guards) and they have a right to a workplace that is as safe as it can be made. when someone smuggles drugs or weapons inside, it endangers them. yet not once did i hear anyone mention this. the more i read on this, only one thing comes to mind: really?

http://kitswv.com

[SkyDekker 1,465]

Quote

Quote

Quote

Quote

Quote

Quote

You can always volunteer to be searched - like when you choose to fly on a commercial airliner.

OK, you are fine with me not being allowed protection under the 2nd when I have to go to a court.... I just got a mandatory subpena because I was a witness to a crime. I HAVE to go, and they WILL disarm me. You OK with that?

You are trying to distort, this guy was not searched because he was arrested. He was searched because he was going to be put into jail.

Right - administrative convenience, not because they had any probable cause to believe he had contraband.

Yet you want gun owners to go through psych evals without any probable cause that they have mental illness.

Only the crazy ones.

How do you know they're crazy without the evals? Your future telepathy machine? Youtube video diagnosis? Superlative google skills?

Twitter.

[Andy9o8 2]

Quote

when someone smuggles drugs or weapons inside, it endangers them. yet not once did i hear anyone mention this.

Well, I may not have used the precise verb "endanger", but my posts do make it pretty clear that the searching is done by the jailers for the purpose of maintaining security at the jail.

[Southern_Man 0]

Quote

Quote

I was never a fan of them. I was just making the point that strip searching is BS based on an unpaid fine.

We've already covered that the detail of the unpaid fine is irrelevant to the issue.

It certainly is not irrelevant when it is YOU that gets arrested.

"What if there were no hypothetical questions?"

[kelpdiver 2]

Quote

Quote

Quote

I was never a fan of them. I was just making the point that strip searching is BS based on an unpaid fine.

We've already covered that the detail of the unpaid fine is irrelevant to the issue.

It certainly is not irrelevant when it is YOU that gets arrested.

it's secondary to getting arrested in the first place. Added suffering in the wrongful arrest suit. But it's pretty fucking stupid to claim that you shouldn't be treated like the guilty criminals....everyone is innocent in jail, right? (Key up the scene from Shawshank Redemption - 'my lawyer fucked me.'

The longer you insist on intermixing the two issues, the longer it takes to get to the discussion of prisoner rights. (Though frankly I thought Kallend's potentially convincing argument got blown up when it was pointed out how he drops that position whole hog when it comes to 2nd amendment rights)

The SC ruled already, so I don't suspect we'll see any change for at least a couple decades.

[SkyChimp 0]

But it's pretty fucking stupid to claim that you shouldn't be treated like the guilty criminals....everyone is innocent in jail, right? (Key up the scene from Shawshank Redemption - 'my lawyer fucked me.'

[DaVinci 0]

Quote

Right - administrative convenience, not because they had any probable cause to believe he had contraband.

And you are fine with that SAME standard not allowing me to carry a gun in court.

Why the sudden double standard?

[kallend 2,146]

Quote

Quote

Right - administrative convenience, not because they had any probable cause to believe he had contraband.

And you are fine with that SAME standard not allowing me to carry a gun in court.

Why the sudden double standard?

I have made it abundantly clear that I'm concerned about FELONS and the MENTALLY DERANGED having guns.

Why is it that you repeatedly interpret this to mean that I'm picking on you? Is there something you haven't told us?

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[DaVinci 0]

Quote

I have made it abundantly clear that I'm concerned about FELONS and the MENTALLY DERANGED having guns.

So you would be OK with a citizen carrying a gun into a courtroom, an airplane, a jail?

Quote

Why is it that you repeatedly interpret this to mean that I'm picking on you? Is there something you haven't told us?

Because you have failed to explain HOW you would determine who is qualified. Even when flat out asked about it you avoid answering. The hints you have given show that you think anyone that wants a gun should have to PROVE they are worthy.... A limit that you refuse to put on any other right in the Bill of Rights.

But back to the point of THIS discussion (that you are ignoring).... You would be fine with a guy that was arrested for a fine violation being allowed to carry a gun into the courtroom or the jail?

[kallend 2,146]

Quote

But back to the point of THIS discussion (that you are ignoring).... You would be fine with a guy that was arrested for a fine violation being allowed to carry a gun into the courtroom or the jail?

Have I ever said otherwise? Please provide a link.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[DaVinci 0]

Quote

Have I ever said otherwise?

Yes, numerous times you have said that not everyone should be allowed to carry everywhere.

A prime example is right in THIS thread where you state I didn't have the right to carry a gun at an airport and that it was OK since I VOLUNTARILY went there.