Cell phone tracking

[kallend 2,182]

www.nytimes.com/2012/04/01/us/police-tracking-of-cellphones-raises-privacy-fears.html

What do you think? Should a warrant be needed?

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[shropshire 0]

If you've got nothing to hide.........

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[rushmc 23]

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If you've got nothing to hide.........

I was pleased to see the SCOTUS rule that police could not attach a GPS tracking device without a warrent

I see it as similar

However
You are carrying the phone anyway

I dont know how this will play out

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[DougH 270]

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www.nytimes.com/2012/04/01/us/police-tracking-of-cellphones-raises-privacy-fears.html

What do you think? Should a warrant be needed?

A warrant should absolutely be needed.

The government wants to have an easy way to build cases up to the level where they can get enough probable cause to get judicial warrants.

The ends justifies the means because they are arresting terror suspects, drug dealers and others, which they may not have had the man power to do so otherwise.

I think that is a real slippery slope. I don't want to give up more of my privacy to the government. If the government arrests fewer people who put the general public at risk because they lack these tools so be it.

I think in the long run federal state and local law enforcement are going to be a much larger risk to my way of life if they are allowed to continue to pick up powers with no oversight.

"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P

[DougH 270]

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If you've got nothing to hide.........

First they came for the communists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a communist.

Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Jew.

Then they came for me
and there was no one left to speak out for me.

----------------------------

Just because you aren't a drug dealer, gangster, or some half assed terrorist doesn't mean you shouldn't be concerned when law enforcement employees extraordinary means to arrest such people.

"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P

[Southern_Man 0]

Yes, I believe a warrant should be needed. The fact that we even need to debate that shows how far civil liberties have been eroded in this country.

It is disturbing that so many cell companies are apparently cooperating and even profiting from selling this information to police departments.

AT&T, Bellsouth, Cricket, metroCPS, Sprint, T-Mobile, and Verizon were all companies listed as supplying information (although in fairness it is unclear if any of them ONLY provided information with a warrant). Customers should contact their services providers.

The only way to disable your GPS/Cell tracking is by removing the battery when your phone is not in use--some phones send-receive information even when off.

"What if there were no hypothetical questions?"

[BIGUN 1,506]

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized. - 4th Amendment

It's only 54 words long and really not that complicated.

Why are there those who continue to make it so?

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[shropshire 0]

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The only way to disable your GPS/Cell tracking is by removing the battery when your phone is not in use--some phones send-receive information even when off.

Is that true or Urban Myth?

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[BIGUN 1,506]

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If you've got nothing to hide.........

You make us proud for having severed our relationship over 200 years ago.

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[shropshire 0]

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Quote

If you've got nothing to hide.........

You make us proud for having severed our relationship over 200 years ago.

It's this site ..... it's warped me

[/piss take]

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[billvon 3,132]

>Is that true or Urban Myth?

Depends on your definition of off.

However, it is definitely true that your phone can transmit your location while APPEARING to be off. Many phones nowadays never truly shut down; they all leave some parts running (RTC oscillator, charger sense, battery protection) and can wake up under certain conditions (like an RTC interrupt.) Thus an app that shuts down the phone but programs the RTC to wake it up periodically (say once every few hours) to send a position without giving any indication that the phone is powered on is perfectly feasible.

[AggieDave 6]

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Yes, I believe a warrant should be needed. The fact that we even need to debate that shows how far civil liberties have been eroded in this country.

Every single time I've encountered the need for this sort of information, the company ALWAYS required a warrant (rightfully and thankfully so), barring some sort of exigent circumstances. 911-hangups with background noise that could indicate a situation in which someone could be in danger, that is one example of an exigent circumstance.

Needing to track a drug dealer, that isn't an exigent circumstance and requires a warrant.

So the short version based on my professional experience is as follows:

1. Information for investigations = warrant needed.
2. Information needed to immediately respond to help someone who may be in immediate danger = no warrant needed.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[shropshire 0]

Cheers Bill.

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[Southern_Man 0]

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Yes, I believe a warrant should be needed. The fact that we even need to debate that shows how far civil liberties have been eroded in this country.

Every single time I've encountered the need for this sort of information, the company ALWAYS required a warrant (rightfully and thankfully so), barring some sort of exigent circumstances. 911-hangups with background noise that could indicate a situation in which someone could be in danger, that is one example of an exigent circumstance.

Needing to track a drug dealer, that isn't an exigent circumstance and requires a warrant.

So the short version based on my professional experience is as follows:

1. Information for investigations = warrant needed.
2. Information needed to immediately respond to help someone who may be in immediate danger = no warrant needed.

It is good that is your experience, it appears that is not the universal experience based on the article and the ACLU report underlying it.

Quite a few police departments reported not needing warrants to access that information.

"What if there were no hypothetical questions?"

[lawrocket 3]

Cell phone tracking is an interesting thing. There’s a difference between recording a person’s words and recording a person’s location.

From a philosophical sense, I think a warrant should be needed. From a Constitutional standpoint – because the person’s location may not be incriminating per se, a warrant is likely unnecessary.

I think a solution to it could be this – treat it like a subpoena and give the phone owner opportunity to object to the production. Even better, that legislatures pass laws preventing this from happening. But government isn't in the business of taking its own powers away.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[StreetScooby 5]

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A warrant should absolutely be needed.

+1

We are all engines of karma

[Andy9o8 3]

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The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized. - 4th Amendment

It's only 54 words long and really not that complicated.

Why are there those who continue to make it so?

Because reasonable people (including reasonable judges) can disagree over interpretation of core terms as applied to particular facts.

[SkyDekker 1,465]

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Because reasonable people (including reasonable judges) can disagree over interpretation of core terms as applied to particular facts.

Not according to rush. He thinks that if you just read it, you know what the intention was. Voila, case solved.

[BIGUN 1,506]

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The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized. - 4th Amendment

It's only 54 words long and really not that complicated.

Why are there those who continue to make it so?

Because reasonable people (including reasonable judges) can disagree over interpretation of core terms as applied to particular facts.

Sounds unreasonable that any person or judge could disagree over erring to the side of reasonable.

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[kelpdiver 2]

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>Is that true or Urban Myth?

Depends on your definition of off.

However, it is definitely true that your phone can transmit your location while APPEARING to be off. Many phones nowadays never truly shut down; they all leave some parts running (RTC oscillator, charger sense, battery protection) and can wake up under certain conditions (like an RTC interrupt.) Thus an app that shuts down the phone but programs the RTC to wake it up periodically (say once every few hours) to send a position without giving any indication that the phone is powered on is perfectly feasible.

do shielded baggies, like the ones that come with FastTrak passes, block this signalling. And if one is so inclined to use this, what's the performance consequence like....slower wake ups?