rushmc 23 #201 April 4, 2012 QuoteQuoteThe amendment process is the only process defined within the Constitution by which it is supposed to be modified The SCOTUS's job is to uphold and defend the Constitituon from Obama. you might rephrase that, it's a check on the LEGISlature from issuing laws that are unconstitutional Obama may think he writes laws (and continues to try to do that), but that's not his duty. No matter how much he wishes he was dictator, he's not. Maybe But given what has been happening latelty, I think I am very close as is"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,131 #202 April 4, 2012 QuoteQuoteThe amendment process is the only process defined within the Constitution by which it is supposed to be modified The SCOTUS's job is to uphold and defend the Constitituon from Obama. you might rephrase that, it's a check on the LEGISlature from issuing laws that are unconstitutional Obama may think he writes laws (and continues to try to do that), but that's not his duty. No matter how much he wishes he was dictator, he's not. So we should call it CongressCare, not ObamaCare. OK... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #203 April 4, 2012 QuoteQuoteQuoteThe amendment process is the only process defined within the Constitution by which it is supposed to be modified The SCOTUS's job is to uphold and defend the Constitituon from Obama. you might rephrase that, it's a check on the LEGISlature from issuing laws that are unconstitutional Obama may think he writes laws (and continues to try to do that), but that's not his duty. No matter how much he wishes he was dictator, he's not. So we should call it CongressCare, not ObamaCare. OK I think Dem-i-cade would be better"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #204 April 4, 2012 QuoteQuoteSo we should call it CongressCare, not ObamaCare. OK I think Dem-i-cade would be better How about "ignorant people please sell me your votes"-Care ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lawrocket 3 #205 April 4, 2012 QuoteSo we should call it CongressCare, not ObamaCare. OK I see that you've seen the light. Now, how about stopping with the whole Bush tax cuts business? Note: Obama, like Bush, used their bully pulpits as the primary salesmen for the product. But, yes, that strong 219-212 majority by which the ACA passed the House was really a doozy. More than enough to exempt itself from falling under Constitutional mandates. My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
grimmie 186 #206 April 4, 2012 What part of ACA do you guys all dislike, other than the mandate that you must have insurance? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DaVinci 0 #207 April 4, 2012 QuoteWell, Bush did INVADE a major oil producing nation and effectively shut down their production for a long time. Seems that the righties have selective amnesia. Seems the lefties have selective memory and a sliding scale of outrage based on who said what. If a Republican blames a Dem for gas prices, they claim there is no way a President can influence gas prices. But if a Dem says a Reb is to blame... they pile on with outrage. Normal, but not intellectually honest. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DaVinci 0 #208 April 4, 2012 QuoteBut in general, yes, both sides will use whatever they can to attack the other, and savvy voters will reject the political pablum they are being force fed and look for the real causes behind such events. No-one with an ounce of sense believes the President, or anyone else, has a magic decoder ring that can instantly produce $2 gas, 0% unemployment, or $0 national debt. then why did you post this: "The tactic of blaming the government (i.e. Obama) for gas prices is a transparent Republican election ploy, entirely without factual merit but nevertheless appealing to those for whom stimulus/response is the limit of their capacity for critical thought." When you now admit both side do it? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DaVinci 0 #209 April 4, 2012 QuoteThe amendment process is the only process defined within the Constitution by which it is supposed to be modified The SCOTUS's job is to uphold and defend the Constitituon from Obama everyone with an agenda. Fixed that for you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lawrocket 3 #210 April 4, 2012 Quote[r]Part of[/r] The SCOTUS's job is to uphold and defend the Constitituon from Obama everyone with an agenda laws which violate its terms. Fixed it. A person challenging an Unconstitutional law has an agenda - to get the law stricken. My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DaVinci 0 #211 April 4, 2012 QuoteWhat part of ACA do you guys all dislike, other than the mandate that you must have insurance? 1. The govt should not be able to force you to buy a product. (Mandate, but you covered that. 2. Its expensive * The CBO foresees an 87 percent overrun, not even 24 months into the plan. * The CBO’s latest valuation now reflects two more years in full operation. Gross costs for FY 2021 and ’22 equal $250 billion and $265 billion, respectively. This nearly doubles the act’s advertised price. * They used 10 years of taxes and only 8 years of benefits paid out to make it look less expensive. 3. It is designed to force people onto the govt roster: *"The CBO expects an additional 4 million Americans to lose their employer-provided coverage, as managers choose to pay fines rather than premiums" * As the Washington Examiner’s Philip Klein observed Tuesday, the Unaffordable Care Act will drive at least 39 million people into the govt HC plans. 4. And this is the big one.... Name me a govt program that works well? Social Security is basically a ponzi scheme that is falling down. * The post office has been running in the red for years... Just last year, the Postal Service ended its fiscal year $2.8 billion in the red, The USPS lost $2.8 billion in 2008, $3.7 billion in 2009, $8.3 billion last year, and it was $8.5 billion in the red in 2011. The US Postal Service is so deeply in debt that it could default on a $5.5 billion payment for retiree benefits. *Amtrak commenced operations in 1971 with $40 million in direct federal aid, $100 million in federally insured loans. Officials expected that Amtrak would break even by 1974, but those expectations proved unrealistic and annual direct Federal aid reached a 17-year high in 1981 of $1.25 billion. Losses in 2010 were $419.9 million. They were topped again for the fiscal year that ended in September when losses hit $560 million. This year’s losses are projected to be in excess of $600 million. Since the start of the 2000s, the United States has dedicated more than $1 billion per year to the broken system, and matters were only made worse by the Rail Safety Improvement Act signed into law in 2008 by President George W. Bush. The Act guarantees annual funding of $2.6 billion through 2013. Even with the cash flow of such charity, Amtrak continues to string together losses. So we give 1Billion to Amtrak each year and they still lose money. This the kinda business plan you agree with? So, if Social Security is facing a problem, medicaid and medicare are facing problems, the Post Office and Amtrak can't run a balanced budget.... What in the world makes anyone thing the Govt can run a HC system? 5. And with all the attacks on personal freedoms from the govt in the past... Patriot act for example. Do you REALLY want the Govt in charge of your HEALTH? 6. I have had US run healthcare (Army/VA)... It sucked. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DaVinci 0 #212 April 4, 2012 QuoteQuote[r]Part of[/r] The SCOTUS's job is to uphold and defend the Constitituon from Obama everyone with an agenda laws which violate its terms. Fixed it. A person challenging an Unconstitutional law has an agenda - to get the law stricken. Yep, that is better. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lawrocket 3 #213 April 4, 2012 QuoteWhat part of ACA do you guys all dislike, other than the mandate that you must have insurance? Isn't that like asking what part of prison we dislike, other than not being allowed to leave it? My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,131 #214 April 4, 2012 QuoteQuoteWhat part of ACA do you guys all dislike, other than the mandate that you must have insurance? Isn't that like asking what part of prison we dislike, other than not being allowed to leave it? Apparently a majority of people polled LIKE the provisions covering pre-existing conditions, no cancellation when you get sick, and coverage for kids up to age 26.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DaVinci 0 #215 April 4, 2012 QuoteApparently a majority of people polled LIKE the provisions Liking something has nothing to do with its Constitutionality. Quotecovering pre-existing conditions, Would you also agree that drunk drivers should be able to pay the same rate for car insurance as you? Even if that means they have to raise your premiums? Quote no cancellation when you get sick This I agree with 100%. Quoteand coverage for kids up to age 26. I don't agree with this unless the kid is in school. What I do agree with is allowing people to group together and allowing people to shop around over State lines and even shop around on prices for procedures. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,131 #216 April 4, 2012 QuoteQuoteApparently a majority of people polled LIKE the provisions Liking something has nothing to do with its Constitutionality. Which has nothing to do with my response to lawrocket (which you CONVENIENTLY omitted).... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lawrocket 3 #217 April 4, 2012 QuoteApparently a majority of people polled LIKE the provisions covering pre-existing conditions, no cancellation when you get sick, and coverage for kids up to age 26. Isn't that what happened when the three wolves and two sheep voted about what was for dinner? My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DaVinci 0 #218 April 4, 2012 QuoteWhich has nothing to do with my response to lawrocket (which you CONVENIENTLY omitted). No, but it stands on its own against your argument anyway. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,131 #219 April 4, 2012 QuoteQuoteApparently a majority of people polled LIKE the provisions covering pre-existing conditions, no cancellation when you get sick, and coverage for kids up to age 26. Isn't that what happened when the three wolves and two sheep voted about what was for dinner? Just responding to your comment.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,131 #220 April 4, 2012 QuoteQuoteWhich has nothing to do with my response to lawrocket (which you CONVENIENTLY omitted). No, but it stands on its own against your argument anyway. No it doesn't, because I didn't argue anything.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
grimmie 186 #221 April 4, 2012 All good points. Much more thought provoking than the usual left/right arguments.I don't know much about the VA, but I have worked with county run ER rooms for years. Very efficient and dedicated staffs at those government run facilities. These are the facilities being over run by a lack of health insurance. The Feds could probably give the existing rail carriers a big tax break to run Amtrak and come out money ahead. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #222 April 4, 2012 QuoteQuoteQuoteWhat part of ACA do you guys all dislike, other than the mandate that you must have insurance? Isn't that like asking what part of prison we dislike, other than not being allowed to leave it? Apparently a majority of people polled LIKE the provisions covering pre-existing conditions, no cancellation when you get sick, and coverage for kids up to age 26. of course people like getting more...until they see (any) change in the price, more is great! To cover preexisting conditions, you have to have the mandate. People will also argue that they are being force to subsidize the very sick, but I see that as short sighted. While cardio costs are fairly preventable, the unlikely cancers are not. And let's not talk about all our broken femurs. None of us are paying the proper rate for covering our skydiving. Keeping young adults eligible is probably a win overall. These are cheap to cover (aside from childbirth) and encourages them to pay into the system, not drop out and just jump back in when they think they have to. ---- But you asked for other objections...I object to the cadillac tax which is indexed to inflation and not medical inflation rates. This will be another AMT plaguing high cost states like CA and NY. I also objected to the fact that government and union employees were exempted from this tax - not for valid reasons but because of political favoritism. This may have been removed later (?) - hard to tell. The main response to the criticism here was to delay it further to 2018 - out of sight, out of mind. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #223 April 4, 2012 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteWhat part of ACA do you guys all dislike, other than the mandate that you must have insurance? Isn't that like asking what part of prison we dislike, other than not being allowed to leave it? Apparently a majority of people polled LIKE the provisions covering pre-existing conditions, no cancellation when you get sick, and coverage for kids up to age 26. of course people like getting more...until they see (any) change in the price, more is great! To cover preexisting conditions, you have to have the mandate. People will also argue that they are being force to subsidize the very sick, but I see that as short sighted. While cardio costs are fairly preventable, the unlikely cancers are not. And let's not talk about all our broken femurs. None of us are paying the proper rate for covering our skydiving. Keeping young adults eligible is probably a win overall. These are cheap to cover (aside from childbirth) and encourages them to pay into the system, not drop out and just jump back in when they think they have to. ---- But you asked for other objections...I object to the cadillac tax which is indexed to inflation and not medical inflation rates. This will be another AMT plaguing high cost states like CA and NY. I also objected to the fact that government and union employees were exempted from this tax - not for valid reasons but because of political favoritism. This may have been removed later (?) - hard to tell. The main response to the criticism here was to delay it further to 2018 - out of sight, out of mind. Add to your list Already implimented When you sell a house a 3% charge is taken to go to Medicare Starting in 2013 A 3.5% charge can be taken from your 401k to fund Medicare"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #224 April 4, 2012 QuoteStarting in 2013 A 3.5% charge can be taken from your 401k to fund Medicare this is new - can you show the cite? if so, it's a FREAKIN' DISASTER Once they think they can dip into our 401Ks, then we really are doomed ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #225 April 4, 2012 QuoteQuoteStarting in 2013 A 3.5% charge can be taken from your 401k to fund Medicare this is new - can you show the cite? if so, it's a FREAKIN' DISASTER Once they think they can dip into our 401Ks, then we really are doomed First one http://www.snopes.com/politics/taxes/realestate.asp"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
