Florida Teen Shot

[rehmwa 2]

I don't think caffeine is your friend. Lighten up and stop being such a jackass. Kallend and I were just mocking the phrasing.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[jakee 1,596]

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What evidence is there of Zimmerman stalking or confronting Martin?

You mean besides the 911 operator asking him if he's following Martin, to which Zimmerman says, "Yeah"?

Yup...2 seconds before the 911 operators says "we don't need you to do that" and Zimmerman saying "OK" and stopping the pursuit two seconds after that to return to his truck!

Y'know Mike, it's like you don't realise that other people can listen to those recordings, and listen to the hard evidence that shows you are lying.

Literally, flat out lying.

Which part of that recording shows that Zimmerman stops his pusuit when he says "OK"? The part where the wind noise remains the same? The part where his heavy breathing remains the same? The part where he wont tell the police where he is?

Which bit?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[jakee 1,596]

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Obama's mother is white, so Obama is half white. So when he started bombing Libya, do we say, "Oh look, another rich white guy in the white house dropping bombs on poor black people again."?

]

Do we?

If not, what do we say? If you're keeping it binary.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[mnealtx 0]

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Y'know Mike, it's like you don't realise that other people can listen to those recordings, and listen to the hard evidence that shows you are lying.

You know, Jake, it's like you don't realize that I keep referring to the TRANSCRIPT of the call. It's like you don't realize that I've repeatedly posted that I can't access streaming media - including in this VERY thread, as I recall.

So, what was that about LYING, again?

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[kelpdiver 2]

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it's clear we don't have a young and innocent little boy here.

The rest of your post is irrelebant. However here, the boy may not be innocent of absolutely anything ever, but there is still no evdence tying him to violent behaviour.

The only prior evidence ties him to MJ. Like I said, reefer madness is long past.

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With the presumed existence of a witness saying he was an aggressor

What witness? What presumption?

Testify my brother! Testify!

translation: irrelebant = "i got no answer to your points, so I'm going to dissect one paragraph into pieces and misquote it.'

Let's be honest- your mind is as shut as GM's on this matter.

burglary would be violent behaviour. Graffiti is just south of the border. 3 suspensions shows a pattern of disregard for the rules and authority.

The problem with this incident, as long discussed, is we only see one side, and that side says it was self defence. Those upset about the death have tried to paint the victim as an innocent boy so there can be no reasonable doubt that this was homicide. But in the absence of better evidence to the contrary, there doesn't seem to be any choice besides no charges. We can and many will remain suspicious, but that's not how our system of justice was designed.

Maybe the grand jury has more to work with. The trial of public opinion doesn't.

[jakee 1,596]

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I don't think caffeine is your friend. Lighten up and stop being such a jackass. Kallend and I were just mocking the phrasing.

Not caffeine dude, whiskey. I've had a great night.

I still think you're being misleading though. An empty bag is an empty bag, an empty bag of MJ is an empty bag that once contained MJ. I just do not see what you're complaining/ mocking about.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[AndyBoyd 0]

This is only a reply to the strictly legal question of self defense in FL. I looked at a FL case today to see what the "stand your ground" law said. I printed it out, but left it at work, and I don't have Westlaw access at home. So I'm doing this from memory. Stand your ground in FL is not, strictly speaking, a defense. It is immunity from prosecution. If an individual is arrested for murder in FL, that person can assert "stand your ground." The trial court will then hold an evidentiary hearing to determine whether the individual should get immunity. The prosecution has the burden of showing by a preponderance of the evidence that the individual should not get immunity. If the prosecution does not meet its burden, the case is dismissed. In the Trayvon Martin case, it seems that the prosecution thought it could not meet its burden and simply decided not to press charges at all. If charges are brought, Zimmerman will obviously assert "stand your ground," and the court will hold a hearing to see if the prosecution can go forward.

Hope this helps explain the law. I'm staying out of this debate.

[jakee 1,596]

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Let's be honest- your mind is as shut as GM's on this matter.

Oh dear. Another person who needs to be reminded that all I am asking for is links to the claimed evidence against Martin.

I had no idea that would show me to be so biased. Oh well, I guess innocent until proven guilty only applies to gun owners. (Hey look, I wasn't even playing the race card).

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burglary would be violent behaviour.

No it wouldn't. Look it up.

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Graffiti is just south of the border.

No it's not. Look it up.

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3 suspensions shows a pattern of disregard for the rules and authority.

And it does not show any violent behaviour.



And I cannot help but notice that my question was met by deafening silence. What witness? What presumption?

Testify!

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[rushmc 23]

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No, it's very likely he was only arrested because he's Hispanic.

Dude, You can't even get his name right despite about 10 prompting otherwise. I believe you have shown yourself to the most racist commentator on this thread.

Oooooooo
the race card played by jakee

For all to see

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[jakee 1,596]

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Y'know Mike, it's like you don't realise that other people can listen to those recordings, and listen to the hard evidence that shows you are lying.

You know, Jake, it's like you don't realize that I keep referring to the TRANSCRIPT of the call. It's like you don't realize that I've repeatedly posted that I can't access streaming media - including in this VERY thread, as I recall.

So, if you can only read the transcript, how do you know that Zimmerman stopped his pursuit and started to return to his truck 2 seconds after he said 'OK'?

How? If you're not just making shit up again, how?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[jakee 1,596]

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No, it's very likely he was only arrested because he's Hispanic.

Dude, You can't even get his name right despite about 10 prompting otherwise. I believe you have shown yourself to the most racist commentator on this thread.

Oooooooo
the race card played by jakee

For all to see

What is Zimmerman's full name?

One chance, no backsies. Go.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[rushmc 23]

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No, it's very likely he was only arrested because he's Hispanic.

Dude, You can't even get his name right despite about 10 prompting otherwise. I believe you have shown yourself to the most racist commentator on this thread.

Oooooooo
the race card played by jakee

For all to see

What is Zimmerman's full name?

One chance, no backsies. Go.

Go back to your whiskey (as you stated you had a good night last night)

You lost any credibility you had when you reached that point

Pars words and dance around the meanings if you wish but at least for me, trying to have a conversation with you is over

this is not about race

except for those who make a living off of it

and they sucked you in

sad

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 23]

cause if anybody believes Gravitymaster is a racist based on him reply's to you, then they believe I am a Nobel prize winner for literary construction.

Ya think?

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[mnealtx 0]

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Y'know Mike, it's like you don't realise that other people can listen to those recordings, and listen to the hard evidence that shows you are lying.

You know, Jake, it's like you don't realize that I keep referring to the TRANSCRIPT of the call. It's like you don't realize that I've repeatedly posted that I can't access streaming media - including in this VERY thread, as I recall.

So, if you can only read the transcript, how do you know that Zimmerman stopped his pursuit and started to return to his truck 2 seconds after he said 'OK'?

How? If you're not just making shit up again, how?

Speaking of making shit up, if you'd spent half the time reading my posts as you have trying to say I'm lying, you'd have seen the time hacks on several of the transcript quotes.

And to use your own words from upthread, why does it matter if he instantly stopped running when he said "OK"? The 911 transcript shows that Zimmerman had lost sight of Martin ("I don't know where this kid is" at 3:40) - how's he confronting someone that's not even in sight?

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[jakee 1,596]

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No, it's very likely he was only arrested because he's Hispanic.

Dude, You can't even get his name right despite about 10 prompting otherwise. I believe you have shown yourself to the most racist commentator on this thread.

Oooooooo
the race card played by jakee

For all to see

What is Zimmerman's full name?

One chance, no backsies. Go.

Go back to your whiskey (as you stated you had a good night last night)

You lost any credibility you had when you reached that point

Pars words and dance around the meanings if you wish

What words? What meanings?

What is Zimmerman's full name?

Very simple question, can you answer it?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[kelpdiver 2]

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And I cannot help but notice that my question was met by deafening silence. What witness? What presumption?

that question of your's has been answered repeatedly and sufficiently such that it bores me.

Hope it's good whiskey you're drunk on, else you're going to be real cranky in the morning.

[jakee 1,596]

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Speaking of making shit up, if you'd spent half the time reading my posts as you have trying to say I'm lying, you'd have seen the time hacks on several of the transcript quotes.

Oh Mike. deary me.

Which posts? Which quotes? What shows that Zimmerman stopped two seconds after saying OK?

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why does it matter if he instantly stopped running when he said "OK"?

Because it is a point of fact.

Whether Martin was running as fast as possible or only just fast enough to ditch Zimmerman or not fast or far enough to lose him at all is a point of pure hypothesis.

You stating that the 911 call shows Zimmerman stopping pursuit and returning to his car 2 second after saying OK is a point of fact. Does it? No.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[jakee 1,596]

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And I cannot help but notice that my question was met by deafening silence. What witness? What presumption?

that question of your's has been answered repeatedly and sufficiently such that it bores me.

By who, and in what post? As I pointed out to Rush, even Mike has admitted he was wrong, so why are you still arguing?

Remember that A) 'winning' does not equal 'aggressor' just as 'before' does not equal 'during' and B) even drunk I can still hand you your ass in a battle of wits. Even if my spelling suffers.

So: What witness? What presumption? Mike says there was none. Rush cannot show one. What about you?

(And the whiskey was excellent. Talisker. Second favourite to Dalwhinney in terms of mass market single malts. Yum!)

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[rushmc 23]

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And I cannot help but notice that my question was met by deafening silence. What witness? What presumption?

that question of your's has been answered repeatedly and sufficiently such that it bores me.

Hope it's good whiskey you're drunk on, else you're going to be real cranky in the morning.

+1

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[jgoose71 0]

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Obama's mother is white, so Obama is half white. So when he started bombing Libya, do we say, "Oh look, another rich white guy in the white house dropping bombs on poor black people again."?

]

Do we?

If not, what do we say? If you're keeping it binary.

Well, we have to focus on the white and drown out the Hispanic as much as possible or the race card doesn't work as well.....
http://freedomeden.blogspot.com/2012/03/george-zimmerman-white-hispanic.html

"There is an art, it says, or, rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss."
Life, the Universe, and Everything

[Southern_Man 0]

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If Zimmerman is WHITE (like the press keeps reporting) Obama is WHITE.

A) I have no idea what the fuck you are responding to.

B) Zimmerman, as shown by people who are trying to prove he's not white, is at least half white. Like, central european white. So, why is he not WHITE? And if he's not, what is he?

Obama's mother is white, so Obama is half white. So when he started bombing Libya, do we say, "Oh look, another rich white guy in the white house dropping bombs on poor black people again."?

Well, might have something to do with Libyans not being black, but don't let facts get in the way of a good rant.

"What if there were no hypothetical questions?"

[jakee 1,596]

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Obama's mother is white, so Obama is half white. So when he started bombing Libya, do we say, "Oh look, another rich white guy in the white house dropping bombs on poor black people again."?

]

Do we?

If not, what do we say? If you're keeping it binary.

Well, we have to focus on the white and drown out the Hispanic as much as possible or the race card doesn't work as well.....
http://freedomeden.blogspot.com/2012/03/george-zimmerman-white-hispanic.html

That was about George, not about Obama.

So what do we say about Obama when he bombs Libya? And how come falsely calling Zimmerman 'Jorges' is ok but correctly calling him 'George' is playing the race card?

America is so confusing!

(PS: Your link? It's wrong. Zimmerman was initially described as white.)

(PPS: First person to bring up race in this thread? You. Post #4)

(PPPS: At that point, you stated Zimmerman needed to go to jail. Just so we're clear.)





Fish in a barrel

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[jgoose71 0]

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Obama's mother is white, so Obama is half white. So when he started bombing Libya, do we say, "Oh look, another rich white guy in the white house dropping bombs on poor black people again."?

]

Do we?

If not, what do we say? If you're keeping it binary.

Well, we have to focus on the white and drown out the Hispanic as much as possible or the race card doesn't work as well.....
http://freedomeden.blogspot.com/2012/03/george-zimmerman-white-hispanic.html

That was about George, not about Obama.

So what do we say about Obama when he bombs Libya? And how come falsely calling Zimmerman 'Jorges' is ok but correctly calling him 'George' is playing the race card?

America is so confusing!

(PS: Your link? It's wrong. Zimmerman was initially described as white.)

(PPS: First person to bring up race in this thread? You. Post #4)

(PPPS: At that point, you stated Zimmerman needed to go to jail. Just so we're clear.)





Fish in a barrel

Well, while we are clearing things up, in post number 4, I was going on the information we had at the time. Everyone thought Zimmerman was the aggressor.

But also in post 4, I commented that the media would turn this into a race war.

Come to find out, Zimmerman backed off and Trayvon approached him and said "Do you have a problem? Well you do now." and sucker punched him, pulled him out of the car and then started to bash his head into the cement.

When faced with new facts that prove me wrong, I can admit it. But of course, not being a race baiter, I can also see the facts for what they are and not let my self be blinded by the black/white argument.

the Physical evidence and Eye witness account supports Zimmerman's story.

"There is an art, it says, or, rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss."
Life, the Universe, and Everything

[muff528 3]

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This is only a reply to the strictly legal question of self defense in FL. I looked at a FL case today to see what the "stand your ground" law said. I printed it out, but left it at work, and I don't have Westlaw access at home. So I'm doing this from memory. Stand your ground in FL is not, strictly speaking, a defense. It is immunity from prosecution. If an individual is arrested for murder in FL, that person can assert "stand your ground." The trial court will then hold an evidentiary hearing to determine whether the individual should get immunity. The prosecution has the burden of showing by a preponderance of the evidence that the individual should not get immunity. If the prosecution does not meet its burden, the case is dismissed. In the Trayvon Martin case, it seems that the prosecution thought it could not meet its burden and simply decided not to press charges at all. If charges are brought, Zimmerman will obviously assert "stand your ground," and the court will hold a hearing to see if the prosecution can go forward.

Hope this helps explain the law. I'm staying out of this debate.

I'm a Floridian with only a peripheral interest in the "stand your ground" law. My perception was that we were previously required to retreat (even CCW holders) if there was an opportunity to do that. We were always allowed to defend ourselves against an imminent threat or attack if retreat was not reasonably possible and that did not change with the passing of the new law. The subsequent investigation would then attempt to sort out whether or not the shooter acted within his rights, and whether any charges should be filed, just like now. The difference that "stand your ground" made is that you are not now required to escape a threat of personal violence if you are lawfully where you are. I could be wrong but I don't think that the "stand your ground" aspect of the new law would apply if the shooter was on the ground and in the process of being pummeled and, fearing his life was in danger, then drew his weapon and fired. I would think that the earlier description of self-defense would still apply here. Not saying that's what happened but it looks like that scenario is the way the defense might go if there is an indictment. On the other hand, if Z threatened M face-to-face, or if M perceived a threat, it could be said that M was exercising his rights to self defense under "stand your ground". Then both might be righteously "standing their ground" with predictable results. As far as this particular case goes, I think it has sadly been taken past the point of no return for a "just" outcome to happen .....whatever the definition for that might be.

[jakee 1,596]

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But also in post 4, I commented that the media would turn this into a race war.

No you didn't. That's a lie. You mentioned neither the media nor a race war.

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Come to find out, Zimmerman backed off and Trayvon approached him and said "Do you have a problem? Well you do now." and sucker punched him, pulled him out of the car and then started to bash his head into the cement.

That is what Zimmerman says.

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When faced with new facts that prove me wrong, I can admit it.

When faced with Zimmerman's claim.

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the Physical evidence and Eye witness account supports Zimmerman's story.

What eyewitness reports and what physical evidence supports Zimmerman's claim of how the altercation begain?

You're like what, the fifth person to claim that now? Don't you guys ever learn?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?