Florida Teen Shot

[billvon 3,118]

>If it really worries you, take a life.

Take my life! Please!

[livendive 8]

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Well THIS is tasteful!

And inaccurate. It wasn't a picture of Trayvon. It was a target with a hoodie, skittles, and a can of tea. It was faceless. So it wasn't a picture of the "victim", it was a picture referencing that FL situation. And FYI, it was a "Don't Shoot" target.

In a effort to improve training and move away from the old 'stand in a line and fire on command' range practice, instructors use shoot/don't-shoot targets. Some are armed, others are not. It allows officers to practice evaluating a target before during and after shooting. So this target that referenced Trayvon without resembling him was to teach officers NOT to shoot. Shouldn't that make the whiny pseudo-offended liberals happy?

ETA:
https://www.google.com/search?q=trayvon+martin+target&client=safari&hl=en&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=ZGVrUefPJ5OI9gSLroAI&ved=0CAgQ_AUoAQ&biw=320&bih=416
These distasteful things were offered for sale a while back. I'd think the former LEO used this, but a few articles said he told other officers he made the targets.

2nd ETA:
USA TODAY Article
Officer: Trayvon Martin target a 'no-shoot training aid'

"It wasn't me!", "That isn't mine, I've never seen it before!", "I swear, I thought she was an intruder!", and "Those are 'no-shoot' targets, the bullseye is just to trick you!"

This guy wants some media sympathy and his job back. I don't believe his claim for a second.

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[Kennedy 0]

Do you the understand "shoot/don't shoot" concept? If not, stop reading and ask, I'll explain it more clearly. If you do, please continue. For a "shoot/don't shoot" training scenario, you have to have realistic targets that are similar to each other except for weapons. If your armed "shoot" target has rings, the "don't shoot" has to have rings too. (I prefer no rings and real faces, but that is usually decided by higher ups, not instructors)

I agree that these particular targets are stupid for referencing TM/GZ, and anyone using them to intentionally shoot has issues, but I don't see why a bunch of PC panties are in a wad over this officer.

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[GeorgiaDon 380]

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"Those are 'no-shoot' targets, the bullseye is just to trick you!"

This guy wants some media sympathy and his job back. I don't believe his claim for a second.

I agree. Whatever the target may or may not have been manufactured for, he offered them as targets to shoot at in the training session he was leading, and the other participants refused. It doesn't make sense to now be alleging that the participants refused to NOT shoot at the targets.

I actually don't have any problem with the DHS "unusual targets", they are a bit shocking but that's exactly the point. The situation in the OP is completely different, for a few reasons.

First, the Zimmerman trial has yet to take place. It is completely inappropriate for a law enforcement officer to use a depiction of an alleged victim in this or any other manner, but it is especially inappropriate to do so before the trial. At worst, this could be seen as an attempt to influence public opinion, including potential jurors (who have yet to be chosen, so they could be anybody). At best, this behavior reflects extreme indifference or even outright hostility to victims of gun violence and crime. If it was just "Joe the Plumber" who did this, he would just be a crass idiot. For a law enforcement officer to do it suggests that the law doesn't give a shit about victims, it is biased against black males, and it suggests that the judicial system has already exonerated Zimmerman. Since law enforcement depends on the goodwill and support of the communities they are policing, to send such a message is entirely detrimental to the mission of the police. The guy is an idiot, he has behaved in a manner destructive to the interests of the police, and he should not be working in law enforcement.

Don

_____________________________________
Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996)
“Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

[livendive 8]

I do understand "shoot/don't shoot" targets. If he'd actually presented them as "no shoot" targets, I doubt the people who raised the complaint would have claimed he asked if they wanted to shoot them. I find his story as believable as a run-of-the-mill "that weed isn't mine, I have no idea how it got in my glovebox". Both could be conceivably be true, but probably not.

That said, I don't really believe this incident, by itself, should be grounds for termination. Of course I also doubt it was. More likely, in my opinion, is that they'd been looking for an excuse to get rid of him and used this. Such is life in an at-will state.

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[rushmc 23]

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I do understand "shoot/don't shoot" targets. If he'd actually presented them as "no shoot" targets, I doubt the people who raised the complaint would have claimed he asked if they wanted to shoot them. I find his story as believable as a run-of-the-mill "that weed isn't mine, I have no idea how it got in my glovebox". Both could be conceivably be true, but probably not.

That said, I don't really believe this incident, by itself, should be grounds for termination. Of course I also doubt it was. More likely, in my opinion, is that they'd been looking for an excuse to get rid of him and used this. Such is life in an at-will state.

Blues,
Dave

It is poeple who believe like you demonstrate here that make shit storms out of farts

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rehmwa 2]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cRXNNqNfQBs


like little Tiffany - those books are way too advanced for her

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[SkyDekker 1,465]

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I do understand "shoot/don't shoot" targets. If he'd actually presented them as "no shoot" targets, I doubt the people who raised the complaint would have claimed he asked if they wanted to shoot them. I find his story as believable as a run-of-the-mill "that weed isn't mine, I have no idea how it got in my glovebox". Both could be conceivably be true, but probably not.

That said, I don't really believe this incident, by itself, should be grounds for termination. Of course I also doubt it was. More likely, in my opinion, is that they'd been looking for an excuse to get rid of him and used this. Such is life in an at-will state.

Blues,
Dave

I don't really care which way he used them. He should have known that this would likely be an issue if it came out in public. Hence, he just used extremely poor judgement. Cops with extremely poor judgement should get fired.

[kelpdiver 2]

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I don't really care which way he used them. He should have known that this would likely be an issue if it came out in public. Hence, he just used extremely poor judgement. Cops with extremely poor judgement should get fired.

Same with internet posters.

[SkyDekker 1,465]

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I don't really care which way he used them. He should have known that this would likely be an issue if it came out in public. Hence, he just used extremely poor judgement. Cops with extremely poor judgement should get fired.

Same with internet posters.

All internet posters should get fired?

[kelpdiver 2]

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I don't really care which way he used them. He should have known that this would likely be an issue if it came out in public. Hence, he just used extremely poor judgement. Cops with extremely poor judgement should get fired.

Same with internet posters.

All internet posters should get fired?

all the ones that exercise poor judgement, and make wild postings without all the facts. Like you.

I'll go out on a limb and say you've never done this sort of fire/no fire training and are rather unqualified to judge this. And to say this is a fireable offence, as opposed to formal or informal reprimand, is a fairly tall reach. The decision to exercise deadly force is not a black and white subject and training for it involves a lot of tough discussions.

[SkyDekker 1,465]

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I don't really care which way he used them. He should have known that this would likely be an issue if it came out in public. Hence, he just used extremely poor judgement. Cops with extremely poor judgement should get fired.

Same with internet posters.

All internet posters should get fired?

all the ones that exercise poor judgement, and make wild postings without all the facts. Like you.

I'll go out on a limb and say you've never done this sort of fire/no fire training and are rather unqualified to judge this. And to say this is a fireable offence, as opposed to formal or informal reprimand, is a fairly tall reach. The decision to exercise deadly force is not a black and white subject and training for it involves a lot of tough discussions.

Right, and this has nothing to do with that.

If he were to use pictures of Obama as a target to shoot at, he would show extremely poor judgement. That doesn't take anything away from the exercise itself.

Your assertion that that gone has to go through fire/no-fire to understand that is silly.

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and make wild postings without all the facts.

Guess you have all the facts? You were there? You witnessed all this first hand?

If not, then why are you commenting on this, thought only people with all the facts can comment?

In my opinion a cop displaying extremely poor judgement should not be in a job where proper judgement can result in life or death decisions. At that point there are people better suited for that position.

Using (overt or covert) references to TM in a shoot or no shoot exercise is extremely poor judgement.

Telling people they should get fired regarding internet postings is pretty small minded. It has actually happened on this forum before, maybe you were behind that?

[kelpdiver 2]

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Using (overt or covert) references to TM in a shoot or no shoot exercise is extremely poor judgement.

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I'll repeat - you're unqualified to made this assertion.

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Telling people they should get fired regarding internet postings is pretty small minded. It has actually happened on this forum before, maybe you were behind that?

so you like to dish it out, but can't take it in return, eh?

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[SkyDekker 1,465]

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Using (overt or covert) references to TM in a shoot or no shoot exercise is extremely poor judgement.

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I'll repeat - you're unqualified to made this assertion.

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Telling people they should get fired regarding internet postings is pretty small minded. It has actually happened on this forum before, maybe you were behind that?

so you like to dish it out, but can't take it in return, eh?

At least you had the common courtesy to not deny it.

Now I understand why you don't recognize poor judgement when you see it.

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[kelpdiver 2]

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At least you had the common courtesy to not deny it.

Now I understand why you don't recognize poor judgement when you see it.

I didn't deny beating your wife? Geeze, what an asinine comment you made. Does it pass for argument in your world? You're missing the point by a country mile - someone that would advocate firing this guy is exactly the sort of jackass that would call an employer up about someone's internet postings, just as was done to Kev. And doubling missing the point - you would be fired from the internet, not from your job.

For the last time, you're (that's you, Skydekker) cannot make good judgements on subjects you're clueless on. FTR, have you ever engaged in shoot/no shoot target practice?

[SkyDekker 1,465]

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someone that would advocate firing this guy is exactly the sort of jackass that would call an employer up about someone's internet postings, just as was done to Kev.

Lol, that's funny coming after your highbrow comment about argument. And, calling me a jackass is the best you can do? Here I thought you could do better.

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For the last time, you're (that's you, Skydekker) cannot make good judgements on subjects you're clueless on.

I am clueless on how to put together a nuclear bomb, yet I don't think it is a good idea that countries with established poor judgement have them.

Your premise as quoted above is assinine and provably false. People who display bad judgement should not be in positions where they have to rely on good judgement.

FTR, have you Kelpdiver ever engaged in designing effective shoot/no shoot target practices, or have you ever been involved in researching the "science" behind the design?

If not, then according to yourself you should not even be participating in this thread.

If you have, maybe explain how using images clearly linked to an unresolved case, still before the courts, is going to train the decision making skills of the trainees? More specifically, how only those images could be used. Since anybody with slightly more than 5 braincells to rub together would understand that, in a public setting, it would be extremely hard to explain. So, what additional benefit is there to be had?

I'll await your expert analysis.

[kelpdiver 2]

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FTR, have you Kelpdiver ever engaged in designing effective shoot/no shoot target practices, or have you ever been involved in researching the "science" behind the design?

So as we all knew, you have no experience here, yet want to fire someone. I actually do have experience here, and know better. Maybe someday you'll get some firearm training rather than spouting from ignorance so often.

[SkyDekker 1,465]

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FTR, have you Kelpdiver ever engaged in designing effective shoot/no shoot target practices, or have you ever been involved in researching the "science" behind the design?

So as we all knew, you have no experience here, yet want to fire someone. I actually do have experience here, and know better. Maybe someday you'll get some firearm training rather than spouting from ignorance so often.

Priceless.

So, what is the incremental benefit of the skittles that cannot be reproduced otherwise?

[billvon 3,118]

Both of you - cut it out.

[Kennedy 0]

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FTR, have you Kelpdiver ever engaged in designing effective shoot/no shoot target practices, or have you ever been involved in researching the "science" behind the design?

So as we all knew, you have no experience here, yet want to fire someone. I actually do have experience here, and know better. Maybe someday you'll get some firearm training rather than spouting from ignorance so often.

Priceless.

So, what is the incremental benefit of the skittles that cannot be reproduced otherwise?

I've seen this sort of target with badges in their hands. Does that mean the instructor putting them up should be fired because he's insensitive to officer-down police shootings?

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[SkyDekker 1,465]

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Would it have made a difference to you if it was a Snickers bar and bottle of Coke Zero?

Would have made no difference to my life, but it probably would have been much better for the cop's career.

Like I said before, it was stupid decision making. He should have known there would be some serious "blow back", so why go down that road unless there is a significant incremental benefit?

Symbolism is powerful, a cop should know that, many, if not most of them deal with it on a daily basis.

[kelpdiver 2]

you must have had some really boring teachers.

[billvon 3,118]

>I've seen this sort of target with badges in their hands. Does that mean the instructor
>putting them up should be fired because he's insensitive to officer-down police
>shootings?

If it was a badge that said "MIT" and you gave him a Boston Marathon sweatshirt - then yes, it would be a really insensitive thing to do.

[rushmc 23]

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>I've seen this sort of target with badges in their hands. Does that mean the instructor
>putting them up should be fired because he's insensitive to officer-down police
>shootings?

If it was a badge that said "MIT" and you gave him a Boston Marathon sweatshirt - then yes, it would be a really insensitive thing to do.

A bit off topic but, since you brought it up, did you read about the Boston Marathon T-shirt Nike printed up and pulled already??

I wonder what they expected to happen?

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[ryoder 1,590]

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlines/2013/04/nike-pulls-boston-massacre-shirts-after-marathon-bombing/

[facepalm]

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.