loch1957 0 #51 March 12, 2012 Supposed to be and being are often different things. Soldiers are human, some bad, some good. It does seem like the military actually seeks the ones that are bad. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HQ2VXJpQ2UwAvoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. Life is either a daring adventure, or nothing.” Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #52 March 12, 2012 That's a good point, Dave - I'm unsure what the SOFA for Afghanistan says regarding this sort of issue.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 891 #53 March 12, 2012 Wow! A youtube video! I'm a changed man! I see it all now!!! WTF is some boolshit interwebs video supposed to mean? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marinus 0 #54 March 12, 2012 QuoteIs that before or after the Afghan public executes the persons that have shot six of our troops in the last two weeks? Before the Afghans kill the next six Americans over this massacre I would say. That's practical you know, you sacrifice the worthless mass murderer to save the lives of the good guys. Note that practical isn't necessarily the same as ethical. QuoteJust wondering if he's going to hold them to the same standards as what he thinks the US should be doing. Maybe you should try to understand what you read. mention the practical solution =/= holding the US to a certain standard. If you try to understand my post you'll actually see that I object to the DP on ethical grounds. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
matthewcline 0 #55 March 12, 2012 QuoteQuoteQuoteYou can't really sell it to the Afghan public if they don't execute him ASAP and publicly. Is that before or after the Afghan public executes the persons that have shot six of our troops in the last two weeks? This bold brought to you by devil's advocate mode. That said, I could see a rational argument for allowing the local government to prosecute him. The concept of double-jeapordy is a long-time staple in the service. Screw up, off-base, and you'll face military charges after the civilians get done with you. I could see an argument being made that an arena of active conflict calls for separate rules, but it'd have to be pretty convincing to justify more lenient treatment of a mass murderer in Afghanistan than a rapist gets in Japan or a DUI in California. Blues, Dave We will need to read the SOFA to know what was agreed upon, and if there is a "waiver" in a case like this. The bad guy might have known the SOFA for all we know at this time. So far we have the dead, and the shooter. We still need the motive to determine the level of charges, then the conviction to determine the level of punishment. Both, I expect, would happen and not be light. MattAn Instructors first concern is student safety. So, start being safe, first!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
loch1957 0 #56 March 12, 2012 Some boolshit interwebs video is supposed to be an example. Look around a bit, you dont need youtube even.Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. Life is either a daring adventure, or nothing.” Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TriGirl 343 #57 March 14, 2012 Quote Quote Is that before or after the Afghan public executes the persons that have shot six of our troops in the last two weeks? Before the Afghans kill the next six Americans over this massacre I would say. Yet, I don't see the uncontrolled, homicidal response by the masses over this atrocity. I've seen reports of protests, but they're orderly, controlled demonstrations venting frustration and opinion. Not targetting individual service members for assassination in retaliation. Although I'm not exactly surprised by the lesser reaction to these innocents being murdered, I'm still appalled that a mistake over which bag is trash sparks days of violent protests and mass murder, while the wholesale slaughter of innocents in their beds barely registers outside the immediate vicinity. See the upside, and always wear your parachute! -- Christopher Titus Shut Up & Jump! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marinus 0 #58 March 14, 2012 You might be right about that, but often there's some time between the violence and the incident that sparked it. We haven't had the Friday afternoon prayers yet. As for violence as a reaction to quran burnings etc: I think it's very hard (if not impossible) for us to understand which significance things like the quran have to some Muslims. For those it's far worse than some dead civilians. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skyrad 0 #59 March 14, 2012 QuoteQuoteYou can't really sell it to the Afghan public if they don't execute him ASAP and publicly. Is that before or after the Afghan public executes the persons that have shot six of our troops in the last two weeks? Its war, soldiers get killed and maimed in war. Children shouldn't, let alone in their own beds.When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skyrad 0 #60 March 14, 2012 QuoteYou might be right about that, but often there's some time between the violence and the incident that sparked it. We haven't had the Friday afternoon prayers yet. As for violence as a reaction to quran burnings etc: I think it's very hard (if not impossible) for us to understand which significance things like the quran have to some Muslims. For those it's far worse than some dead civilians. Dead civilians has become the norm in Afghanistan, a land brutalised by war for decades. Burning Korans however is a unique event.When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
matthewcline 0 #61 March 15, 2012 QuoteQuoteYou might be right about that, but often there's some time between the violence and the incident that sparked it. We haven't had the Friday afternoon prayers yet. As for violence as a reaction to quran burnings etc: I think it's very hard (if not impossible) for us to understand which significance things like the quran have to some Muslims. For those it's far worse than some dead civilians. Dead civilians has become the norm in Afghanistan, a land brutalised by war for decades. Burning Korans however is a unique event. Mostly true, but, remember they burned Korans that had been used as communications devices between detainees. MattAn Instructors first concern is student safety. So, start being safe, first!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skyrad 0 #62 March 17, 2012 Even if that is true, according to the official line it was still a screw up.When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
matthewcline 0 #63 March 17, 2012 QuoteEven if that is true, according to the official line it was still a screw up. I wonder why it was never mentioned before, the numerous times it has been done in the previous 10 years. Why it is not an issue in Gitmo? The destruction of the enemies communication devices is not knew, the reaction and counter reaction, is. MattAn Instructors first concern is student safety. So, start being safe, first!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marinus 0 #64 March 18, 2012 http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/explainer/2012/02/afghan_quran_burning_protests_what_s_the_right_way_to_dispose_of_a_quran_.html When in Afghanistan, do as the Afghans do. It took me less then a minute to learn that there are in fact proper ways to dispose of qurans. If I would want to get rid of my own copy of the Quran, I wouldn't go that extra mile, but if I was a guest in an Islamic nation..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 2 #65 March 18, 2012 QuoteQuoteEven if that is true, according to the official line it was still a screw up. I wonder why it was never mentioned before, the numerous times it has been done in the previous 10 years. Why it is not an issue in Gitmo? The destruction of the enemies communication devices is not knew, the reaction and counter reaction, is. Matt Because when you're an army of occupation, even if ostensibly by invitation, there comes a time when you've so overstayed your welcome that every fuckup you commit is amplified 100-fold in the eyes of the beholder. We crossed that threshold in Afghanistan years ago. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jgoose71 0 #66 March 18, 2012 QuoteYou might be right about that, but often there's some time between the violence and the incident that sparked it. We haven't had the Friday afternoon prayers yet. As for violence as a reaction to quran burnings etc: I think it's very hard (if not impossible) for us to understand which significance things like the quran have to some Muslims. For those it's far worse than some dead civilians. Well, having spent some time in Afghanistan all I can say is if you live there, you look forward to dying to get out of that hell hole...."There is an art, it says, or, rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss." Life, the Universe, and Everything Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,465 #67 March 19, 2012 QuoteWell, having spent some time in Afghanistan all I can say is if you live there, you look forward to dying to get out of that hell hole.... Aha, so murdering them is like helping them, doing them a favour..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
matthewcline 0 #68 March 19, 2012 Quotehttp://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/explainer/2012/02/afghan_quran_burning_protests_what_s_the_right_way_to_dispose_of_a_quran_.html When in Afghanistan, do as the Afghans do. It took me less then a minute to learn that there are in fact proper ways to dispose of qurans. If I would want to get rid of my own copy of the Quran, I wouldn't go that extra mile, but if I was a guest in an Islamic nation..... I guess they should have done this- "Burning isn’t a popular choice, because fire is associated with the devil as well as the early rival religion Zoroastrianism, but some scholars find it acceptable. Saudi religious authorities place burning on par with burial, as long as it’s done ritually on mosque property." But still, it is a method, not the number one of course, and I think Andy nailed the true reason. Some of those protesting and rioting can't even read the text yet, they are just doing as told. The apology should have been for not finishing the job properly. MattAn Instructors first concern is student safety. So, start being safe, first!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skyrad 0 #69 March 19, 2012 Regarding the not being able to read point, that is one reason why many children can recite the Koran, because they learn it by rote and memorise it.When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
matthewcline 0 #70 March 19, 2012 With the ease, and ability, of some ones "slant" built in. Any way, it was an over reaction by both sides, nothing new, and again Andy nailed why, IMO. MattAn Instructors first concern is student safety. So, start being safe, first!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
