Shark Attacks and Voter Fraud

[DaVinci 0]

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Why should she have to, and pay a $200 fee for the privilege right.

Yet you support registration, ID's, background checks and fees to own a gun.

Funny how your indignation only fits to some rights, huh?

[kallend 2,146]

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Why should she have to, and pay a $200 fee for the privilege right.

Yet you support registration, ID's, background checks and fees to own a gun.

Funny how your indignation only fits to some rights, huh?

Where have I written that I support fees to own a gun? Please provide a link. (In fact, I wrote the exact opposite of what you claim).

If you support registering to vote, why the knee jerk opposition to registering to own a gun?

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[tkhayes 348]

who said that it was OK?

[SkyDekker 1,465]

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So you agree that ANY law that restricts citizen's right to keep and bear arms should be ruled unconstitutional and for that matter, should never be considered at any level, state or federal?

I agree, free mustard gas for all.

Oh, you are in favour of laws against biological arms, you just don't like laws that restrict your favourite toys....I see.

[DaVinci 0]

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Where have I written that I support fees to own a gun?

You have said you support registration like people do with a car. That is not free.

You have said you support mental screenings for people who want to and who own guns... Those are also not free.

You have said you support a license like a drivers license... Those are not free.

You did mention free NICS checks, but most of your other opinions have a price tag attached.

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If you support registering to vote, why the knee jerk opposition to registering to own a gun?

Still waiting for you to answer why you think it is fine to need an ID to buy a gun but not to vote. Answer that first and then I'll answer your question.

[Andy9o8 2]

I think there are answers to what each of you have queried.

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(DaVinci) - You have said you support registration like people do with a car. That is not free.
You have said you support mental screenings for people who want to and who own guns... Those are also not free.
You have said you support a license like a drivers license... Those are not free.
You did mention free NICS checks, but most of your other opinions have a price tag attached.

I think attaching fees to exercise any right (as opposed to a privilege) is on very shaky Constitutional ground. That's (one reason) why poll taxes, for example, have been ruled unconstitutional. Find a judge who is a constitutional purist AND intellectually honest, and you might convince him to rule that all fees associated with registering a gun are unconstitutional. (Not that I think that will happen, simply because judges are political creatures, so they'll likely affirm the status quo, especially when it funds the governments that pay their salaries.)

I think your argument weakens if the government mandates strict registration, but makes the entire process 100% free (the way, for example, that registering to vote and getting a voter's registration card is free).

(So why is it OK to charge fees for driver's licenses and vehicle registrations? Because those are not rights; they're privileges. On the other hand, voting, and bearing arms, are rights.)

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(Kallend) If you support registering to vote, why the knee jerk opposition to registering to own a gun?

Registration is reasonable re: voting, because, at the polls, it helps assure that voters are qualified to vote (adults; citizens; reside in the locality represented, etc.). It also is the practical means to keep a person from voting more than once.

However, it can be argued that the 2nd Amendment does not allow limits on the number of arms a person may own; so it's not like a "one man, one vote" logic can be employed. Also, it can be argued that registration records can be mis-used, either by governments to confiscate arms, or by law-breakers to plan crimes against citizens who own arms.

That being said, there is still an argument that registration aids law enforcement - not necessarily in the prevention of crimes, but in the solving them. I agree that most criminals who obtain guns intending them to be instruments of criminality are not going to register those guns. But registration does at least create a paper trail, allowing LEOs to trace the ownership of a gun used in a crime back to the last point of lawful ownership, so investigators can pick up the trail from there.

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(DaVinci) Still waiting for you to answer why you think it is fine to need an ID to buy a gun but not to vote. Answer that first and then I'll answer your question.

The problem with most voter ID laws is similar to that you identified re: gun licensing/registration: cost, as well as physical impediments to complying. Even if you don't drive, most (all?) states allow non-drivers to obtain government-issued photo IDs. But they're not free, and they're a hassle to get. That de- facto tends to discriminate against poor people, and that's why I oppose them. But make them 100% free, AND very easy to get, and I might agree to them.

[kallend 2,146]

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Where have I written that I support fees to own a gun?

You have said you support registration like people do with a car. That is not free.

Bogus argument. The fee doesn't have to be the same. No reason it shouldn't be free.

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You have said you support mental screenings for people who want to and who own guns... Those are also not free.

Bogus argument again.

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You have said you support a license like a drivers license... Those are not free.

Three Bogus arguments in a row. You get a bonus for that.

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You did mention free NICS checks, but most of your other opinions have a price tag attached.

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If you support registering to vote, why the knee jerk opposition to registering to own a gun?

Still waiting for you to answer why you think it is fine to need an ID to buy a gun but not to vote. Answer that first and then I'll answer your question.

Strawman - I don't object to needing an ID to vote, as long as the state doesn't charge for it.

Your position is not strengthened by making bogus arguments and inventing strawmen. It just makes you look silly.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.