QuoteAgain, it is a poor argument. The Individual right is to vote, once, per person, per election. The State has a way for the Citizen to meet the proof of person criteria.
It seems pretty inconsistent by both sides to need ID's for Guns, and not need ID's to vote.
QuoteI, for one, resent the slander against my brethren.
QuoteAnd if you think that the States have never done anything to 'subdue voters' in the past, well.... if that were the case, we never would have needed the 15th, 19th, or 26th amendments.
QuoteNope. You have a right to keep and bear arms, not a right to arms.
QuoteQuoteNope. You have a right to keep and bear arms, not a right to arms.
I have the same problem with this issue as I have with many others. If it's my right to do something how much responsibility do I have in making sure I get to excersize that right.
I have to leave my house, drive to a polling place, stand in line, and operate a machine. One could make an argument that any of that will make voting a burden. Why is the line drawn at identifying ones self?
QuoteQuoteQuoteNope. You have a right to keep and bear arms, not a right to arms.
I have the same problem with this issue as I have with many others. If it's my right to do something how much responsibility do I have in making sure I get to excersize that right.
I have to leave my house, drive to a polling place, stand in line, and operate a machine. One could make an argument that any of that will make voting a burden. Why is the line drawn at identifying ones self?
The line I was drawing was at having to PAY THE STATE to identify yourself in order to exercise your *right* to vote.
QuoteWhat is going to happen when these people have to sign up for their free healthcare? They are going to require they identify themselves.
QuoteQuoteWhat is going to happen when these people have to sign up for their free healthcare? They are going to require they identify themselves.
once again, you digress into an unrelated topic.....
QuoteYou claim they can't take time off work because they can't afford to.
QuoteQuoteWhat is going to happen when these people have to sign up for their free healthcare? They are going to require they identify themselves.
once again, you digress into an unrelated topic.....
QuoteQuoteAgain, it is a poor argument. The Individual right is to vote, once, per person, per election. The State has a way for the Citizen to meet the proof of person criteria.
It seems pretty inconsistent by both sides to need ID's for Guns, and not need ID's to vote.
Well the second amendment uses "shall not be infringed" and the all the voting amendments uses "Shall not be denied or abridged..."
So the language is similar, however not identical.
Go make your case for no IDs for guns and I will make my case for no silly ID requirements for voting. But they are separate arguments, and making some old lady going 50 miles to get a special form of ID that she may never have had in her life because the 'State' changed the rules, sounds like 'abridged'
And if you think that the States have never done anything to 'subdue voters' in the past, well.... if that were the case, we never would have needed the 15th, 19th, or 26th amendments.
QuoteQuoteYou claim they can't take time off work because they can't afford to.
I made no such claim, I gave one of many examples.
So far, healthcare is not written into the constitution and therefore does not have the same 'rights' for all citizens. It is a policy, still under debate, not a right -
unrelated.
(shakes head and walks away cause he has better things to do than argue with people that cannot understand a constitutional right)
QuoteQuoteQuoteWhat is going to happen when these people have to sign up for their free healthcare? They are going to require they identify themselves.
once again, you digress into an unrelated topic.....
Paying the state to exercise a RIGHT turns the RIGHT into a PRIVILEGE.
GM apparently can't tell the difference.
QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteWhat is going to happen when these people have to sign up for their free healthcare? They are going to require they identify themselves.
once again, you digress into an unrelated topic.....
Paying the state to exercise a RIGHT turns the RIGHT into a PRIVILEGE.
GM apparently can't tell the difference.
Let's just use one of your usual solutions. Raise taxes and then provide the ID for "Free"
QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteWhat is going to happen when these people have to sign up for their free healthcare? They are going to require they identify themselves.
once again, you digress into an unrelated topic.....
Paying the state to exercise a RIGHT turns the RIGHT into a PRIVILEGE.
GM apparently can't tell the difference.
Let's just use one of your usual solutions. Raise taxes and then provide the ID for "Free"
QuoteWhy should she have to, and pay a $200 fee for the
privilegeright.
Quotemaybe your oversimplification of the processes are just that, oversimplification.
QuoteMaybe just maybe, someone actually will have difficulty getting the ID to vote, given that the govt is not asking for 'ID', they are asking for a very specific list of only certain types of IDs and therefore that would be an undue burden for many (or even some)
QuoteAnd maybe if you believe in parts of the Constitution, but not other parts of it, maybe just maybe you are at the very least, paradoxical.
QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteWhat is going to happen when these people have to sign up for their free healthcare? They are going to require they identify themselves.
once again, you digress into an unrelated topic.....
Paying the state to exercise a RIGHT turns the RIGHT into a PRIVILEGE.
GM apparently can't tell the difference.
Let's just use one of your usual solutions. Raise taxes and then provide the ID for "Free"
Taxes are the dues we pay to belong to an advanced society that provides infrastructure and resources.
Trouble is, a lot of people on both ends of the spectrum want to freeload. (And IMO the very wealthy are among the worst).
Nothwithstanding, no-one should have to pay the state in order to exercise their right to vote. It's just a way some states seem to be getting around the prohibition on poll taxes.
QuoteQuoteWhy should she have to, and pay a $200 fee for the
privilegeright.
Why should people have to, and pay $200 or more for theprivelegeright to bear arms?
QuoteQuoteQuoteWhy should she have to, and pay a $200 fee for the
privilegeright.
Why should people have to, and pay $200 or more for theprivelegeright to bear arms?
Indeed, there should be no state or federal charge for the NICS check. I understand that some DEALERS charge for the NICS, but you don't have to patronize their businesses.
QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteWhy should she have to, and pay a $200 fee for the
privilegeright.
Why should people have to, and pay $200 or more for theprivelegeright to bear arms?
Indeed, there should be no state or federal charge for the NICS check. I understand that some DEALERS charge for the NICS, but you don't have to patronize their businesses.
I wasn't talking about NICS...but you knew that.
QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteWhat is going to happen when these people have to sign up for their free healthcare? They are going to require they identify themselves.
once again, you digress into an unrelated topic.....
Paying the state to exercise a RIGHT turns the RIGHT into a PRIVILEGE.
GM apparently can't tell the difference.
Let's just use one of your usual solutions. Raise taxes and then provide the ID for "Free"
Taxes are the dues we pay to belong to an advanced society that provides infrastructure and resources.
Trouble is, a lot of people on both ends of the spectrum want to freeload. (And IMO the very wealthy are among the worst).
Nothwithstanding, no-one should have to pay the state in order to exercise their right to vote. It's just a way some states seem to be getting around the prohibition on poll taxes.
Let's just issue a voter ID along with a birth certificate, then. I'm sure you will agree that any society needs to insure that those who live in that society are the ones making the decisions on their leaders.
QuoteThey're not asking for just 'any' ID to vote. They are asking for very specific forms of ID. And that for some people could be difficult to get.
Voting ain't a right if you have to pay for it.
So, Free guns now?
Matt
Nope. You have a right to keep and bear arms, not a right to arms.