Shark Attacks and Voter Fraud

[jclalor 12]

In the last four years, what has happened more frequently in Florida?


http://www.politifact.com/florida/statements/2012/mar/02/aclu-florida/shark-attacks-are-more-common-voter-fraud-florida/

[matthewcline 0]

Quote

In the last four years, what has happened more frequently in Florida?


http://www.politifact.com/florida/statements/2012/mar/02/aclu-florida/shark-attacks-are-more-common-voter-fraud-florida/

Voting only happens twice (?) in the four year period while swimming happens 360 (+ or -) days a year, correct?

Matt

An Instructors first concern is student safety.
So, start being safe, first!!!

[jclalor 12]

Quote

Quote

Quote

In the last four years, what has happened more frequently in Florida?


http://www.politifact.com/florida/statements/2012/mar/02/aclu-florida/shark-attacks-are-more-common-voter-fraud-florida/

Voting only happens twice (?) in the four year period while swimming happens 360 (+ or -) days a year, correct?

Matt

Most voter fraud is committed during the registration process (365 days a year), not just on election day.

The amount of effort being put into the campaign for photo ID does seem a bit out of context for the actual number of cases of voter fraud.

While you and I can't fathom not having a photo ID, Many poor and elderly do not. The RNC knows that this group votes Democrat more than Republican

All the hoopla for an event that happens lees frequently than shark attacks.

http://beforeitsnews.com/story/1828/156/21_Percent_Of_Americans_Have_No_Government_Issued_ID:_25_Percent_Elderly_Blacks_Have_No_ID.html

[lawrocket 3]

Quote

The RNC knows that this group votes Democrat more than Republican

That sword has two sides and you know it. The DNC know that non-citizens tend to vote for Democrats and therefore wants it easier for them to do it.

SO you've got the argument that the RNC knows that they don't want them because they vote for Dems. Which is canceled out by the Dems want them because they vote for Dems.

The Dems will go to any seedy lengths to ensure that those ineligible to vote give Dems votes. The GOP goes to any seedy lengths to ensure that those eligible to vote have just as much trouble voting for Dems as anyone who votes GOP.

You argue that you'd rather have people voting illegally than make it difficult for a legal voter to cast a ballot. The other side would rather ensure that people who can't legally vote don't vote, even if it makes it more difficult for legal voters.

Which is better or worse?

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[kallend 2,146]

Quote

Quote

The RNC knows that this group votes Democrat more than Republican

That sword has two sides and you know it. The DNC know that non-citizens tend to vote for Democrats and therefore wants it easier for them to do it.

And your evidence for this is?

The penalty for an illegal being caught voting is pretty severe. No illegal is going out of their way to get caught doing this, despite GOP rhetoric.

"Hey Juan, lets go vote for Obama, it's worth the risk of being deported"

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[airdvr 210]

Also, one "case" may represent multiple counts of voter fraud, perpetrated by multiple people, said agency spokesman Chris Cate. He points to a November 2011 case that resulted in the arrests of nine people from the North Florida town of Madison, including the supervisor of elections.

So in reality we don't know the number of actual people involved, just the number of cases.

Don't be naive John. I'll bet there is a 'reward' built into some perverse pay plan for these folks. If there isn't then we've got proof positive that stupid knows no bounds on both sides of the aisle.

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[kallend 2,146]

Quote

Also, one "case" may represent multiple counts of voter fraud, perpetrated by multiple people, said agency spokesman Chris Cate. He points to a November 2011 case that resulted in the arrests of nine people from the North Florida town of Madison, including the supervisor of elections.

So in reality we don't know the number of actual people involved, just the number of cases.

Don't be naive John. I'll bet there is a 'reward' built into some perverse pay plan for these folks. If there isn't then we've got proof positive that stupid knows no bounds on both sides of the aisle.

The hottest state for voter ID to prevent "fraud" was Indiana.

As it happens, the ONLY proven case of voter fraud in IN history was their Secretary of State (R), who wasn't caught on account of his ID.

History shows clearly that the GOP is using an almost non-existent boogie-man to disenfranchise poor and elderly voters.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[lawrocket 3]

Quote

History shows clearly that the GOP is using an almost non-existent boogie-man to disenfranchise poor and elderly voters.

You've made the statement. Show me the evidence.

(1) Indiana is the "hottest state for voter ID"
(2) Voter Fraud is a bogeyman
(3) Poor will be disenfranchised
(4) Elderly will be disenfranchised

Let's see it.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[Andy9o8 2]

I, for one, resent the slander against my brethren. You can all bite me.

Before I bite you.

[tkhayes 348]

Quote

The DNC know that non-citizens tend to vote for Democrats and therefore wants it easier for them to do it.

Actually YOU made the statement with no evidence - so LET'S SEE IT.

Quote

(2) Voter Fraud is a bogeyman

Show me the cases of voter fraud that justify ANY law that restricts voting in ANY way.

It's complete bullshit. ANY law that restricts citizens right to vote should be ruled unconstitutional and for that matter, should never be considered at any level, state or federal.

Any law that restricts the right to vote MUST by its very existence, have an agenda to do just that, restrict voting. Voting is a fundamental right and should never be impeded.

Anyone passing a law that restricts voting has the burden of proof to demonstrate that this law is actually necessary with solid evidence that the 'problems' it is trying to fix actually exist.

Quote

(3) Poor will be disenfranchised
(4) Elderly will be disenfranchised

From Miami Herald:
http://www.miamiherald.com/2011/11/12/2498170/gops-new-voting-law-in-florida.html

Quote

Let's see it.

There it is....let's see yours.

[mnealtx 0]

Quote

ANY law that restricts citizens right to vote should be ruled unconstitutional and for that matter, should never be considered at any level, state or federal.

So you agree that ANY law that restricts citizen's right to keep and bear arms should be ruled unconstitutional and for that matter, should never be considered at any level, state or federal?

I look forward to your signature on the petitions to overturn GCA 68, FOPA, the Brady Bill and any/all other laws restricting the 2nd amendment.

You'd think those people without any ID would be more concerned by not being able to get a job, open bank accounts, cash checks, see the doc or pick up prescriptions (just a few of the things you need some form of ID to do) than being able to prove they actually live in the district they're voting in.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[tkhayes 348]

Quote

So you agree that ANY law that restricts citizen's right to keep and bear arms should be ruled unconstitutional and for that matter, should never be considered at any level, state or federal?

I gave up on the gun debate years ago, you must have missed that.

Quote

You'd think those people without any ID would be more concerned by ....

They're not asking for just 'any' ID to vote. They are asking for very specific forms of ID. And that for some people could be difficult to get. Single mom, working two jobs, has to make an appointment to go stand in line at a DMV office perhaps with a half day off to get the 'proper form' of ID to satisfy the law. Undue burden. Unconstitutional and disenfranchises - yes.

Greater restrictions passed in Florida for voter registration groups (on both sides) to even help these people with that task, shortened submission times and increased penalties and fines, as well as their own registration requirements just to be allowed to help people register. WTF? I have to register myself as a "voter registration driver" just to help my elderly grandmother get registered to vote?

Again, what problem exactly are they hoping to fix? Undefined.....or maybe they just don't want people to vote. Particularly people who might have problems with meeting the requirements to vote.

[mnealtx 0]

Quote

Single mom, working two jobs, has to make an appointment to go stand in line at a DMV office perhaps with a half day off to get the 'proper form' of ID to satisfy the law.

So, how did 'single mom, working two jobs' *GET* those jobs in the first place without any ID?

Quote

Undue burden.

I'm thinking not being able to get a job in the first place (since she didn't have any ID according to you) would be a greater burden. Not being able to open a bank account or cash the checks from her non-existent job (since she didn't have any ID according to you) would be a greater burden. Not being able to go to the doc or pick up prescriptions (since she didn't have any ID according to you) would be a greater burden. Not being able to get a mortgage or sign a lease on housing (since she didn't have any ID according to you) would be a greater burden.

Quote

Particularly people who might have problems with meeting the requirements to vote.

Yeah, that whole proving they're a US citizen that lives in the precinct they're voting in is *so* passé...

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[jclalor 12]

Quote

Yeah, that whole proving they're a US citizen that lives in the precinct they're voting in is *so* passé...

[mnealtx 0]

Quote

Quote

Yeah, that whole proving they're a US citizen that lives in the precinct they're voting in is *so* passé...

I was on your side at the beginning of this debate, but the bottom line is the amount of voter fraud committed is negligible.

[Gravitymaster 0]

But yet you contend she will take time off work to stand in line and vote. She can do that but not take time off to get ID? Do you ever listen to what you are saying and think about it?

[tkhayes 348]

Not to mention that she will also have to PAY to get that ID, which in itself is likely unconstitutional. If the govt is going to make you get an ID to vore, and that being your absolute right as a citizen, then the govt should make every effort to get you that ID as well.

Of course mnealtx will focus on only the one example of the single working mom that I gave to make his entire case instead of the greater constitutional argument against the entire concept of the new restrictions against voting. So much for his constitutional scruples (except for the 2nd amendment of course)

[tkhayes 348]

Quote

ut yet you contend she will take time off work to stand in line and vote.

Most laws allow time off work to vote, and there is early voting. Do you ever listen to what you are saying?

[jclalor 12]

Quote

Quote

***ut yet you contend she will take time off work to stand in line and vote.

Most laws allow time off work to vote, and there is early voting. Do you ever listen to what you are saying?

I guess you guys don't care about the elderly. how fucked up is that? I would be ashamed.



http://www.aarp.org/politics-society/government-elections/info-09-2011/photo-id-laws-impact-wi.html

[mnealtx 0]

Quote

Not to mention that she will also have to PAY to get that ID, which in itself is likely unconstitutional.

Only if the ID in and of itself is only valid for voting.

Quote

If the govt is going to make you get an ID to vore, and that being your absolute right as a citizen, then the govt should make every effort to get you that ID as well.

See above.

Quote

Of course mnealtx will focus on only the one example of the single working mom that I gave to make his entire case instead of the greater constitutional argument against the entire concept of the new restrictions against voting.

Must suck when your 'example' is so easily (and thoroughly) debunked and your argument is so weak that it can only be supported through such bad examples.

Quote

So much for his constitutional scruples (except for the 2nd amendment of course)

Looks like mine are in better shape than yours.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[mnealtx 0]

Quote

Quote

Quote

***ut yet you contend she will take time off work to stand in line and vote.

Most laws allow time off work to vote, and there is early voting. Do you ever listen to what you are saying?

I guess you guys don't care about the elderly. how fucked up is that? I would be ashamed.



http://www.aarp.org/politics-society/government-elections/info-09-2011/photo-id-laws-impact-wi.html

How are they cashing their SSI checks or seeing the doctor/getting their meds without ID, pray tell?

Wisconsin provided free ID cards for voting purposes.

You (and AARP) should be ashamed for getting sucked in so easily.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[Gravitymaster 0]

Quote

Quote

ut yet you contend she will take time off work to stand in line and vote.

Most laws allow time off work to vote, and there is early voting. Do you ever listen to what you are saying?

Well, this fantasy person you have created for your argument is obviously not a Republican.

[Gravitymaster 0]

So what you and TK are alledging is that in their entire life, this fantasy person has never, ever had a 1/2 day off to go down and vote?

If the employer is required to allow time off to go down and vote and this fantasy person can't because they don't have ID. Then why don't they take the paid 1/2 day and get the ID? Then the next election, they can vote.

Seriously TK, do you ever think about what you write?

[tkhayes 348]

Quote

How are they cashing their SSI checks or seeing the doctor/getting their meds without ID, pray tell?

I give up? How are they? If you are going to make a statement that they need ID to cash their SSI checks, then show examples where that is the case. I suspect they have electronic deposit, maybe you have not heard of that before.

Maybe their 'son' or 'neighbor' takes the check to the bank for them and maybe it is a small town so of course the bank knows everyone and does not require ID.

Maybe they have neighbors to take them on a errand run once in a while.

Maybe your argument is bullshit. Just maybe.

[tkhayes 348]

Quote

So what you and TK are alledging is that in their entire life, this fantasy person has never, ever had a 1/2 day off to go down and vote?

If the employer is required to allow time off to go down and vote and this fantasy person can't because they don't have ID. Then why don't they take the paid 1/2 day and get the ID? Then the next election, they can vote.

Seriously TK, do you ever think about what you write?

I never said any such thing. So let's not presuppose that you know anything about me or what I stand for.

What I said is that ANY infringement on the right to vote should be shot down. It is a fundamental Constitutional right and the govt should protect it, not infringe upon it.

Any restriction on the right to vote is a RESTRICTION on the right to vote and therefore unconstitutional.

period

that is what I said. Try not to re-ietrpret it into something that it is not.

or go ahead, try anyway....go ahead....say that I said something else.....go ahead. I would expect nothing less.