Anniversary of Branch Davidian's "MURDER" Seige

[piisfish 140]

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Koresh could have walked at any point in the process, but he was a fucking nutcase putting the lives of other people in jeopardy.

didn't this happen in the city of Whacko ?

scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

[RonD1120 62]

Recently seen poster on FB:

Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives should be a convenience store not a government agency.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[Gravitymaster 0]

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. . . assault weapons . . .

Are you sure they weren't just scary looking?

Ever noticed how there term ironically cuts both ways? Yes, government agents are "jack-booted thugs" with "assault weapons," but the Davidians are simply innocent people minding their own business without "assault weapons" on "trumped up gun charges" or a "minor gun violation"?

Sheesh!

I'm intentionally using language you would understand.

[normiss 893]

Actually it was outside Waco.
Pronounced "way-coe".
So no, it didn't.

[billvon 3,114]

>After all, it's pretty normal to have jack-booted thugs show up armed with assault
>weapons to serve a simply warrant for a minor gun violation. Why would they be
>worried?

Well, it used to be jack booted thugs. Today it would be jack booted thugs with Predator drones patrolling the airspace, a terrorism alert and a Homeland Security crackdown on everything within five miles of the suspected terrorist compound (to stop the other terrorist cells of course.)

And they'd have to go in right away, rather than wait a few months. In case there was a TICKING TIME BOMB of course.

[Gravitymaster 0]

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>After all, it's pretty normal to have jack-booted thugs show up armed with assault
>weapons to serve a simply warrant for a minor gun violation. Why would they be
>worried?

Well, it used to be jack booted thugs. Today it would be jack booted thugs with Predator drones patrolling the airspace, a terrorism alert and a Homeland Security crackdown on everything within five miles of the suspected terrorist compound (to stop the other terrorist cells of course.)

And they'd have to go in right away, rather than wait a few months. In case there was a TICKING TIME BOMB of course.

Pretty sad isn't it?

[BillyVance 35]

In my view, AG Janet Reno screwed the pooch on this, and a few other incidents during her tenure. That said, I do not know how this could have turned out differently with another approach. David Koresh was a raging lunatic.

"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban

[Gravitymaster 0]

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In my view, AG Janet Reno screwed the pooch on this, and a few other incidents during her tenure. That said, I do not know how this could have turned out differently with another approach. David Koresh was a raging lunatic.

A raging lunatic, yes. Did he deserve to die when he was no threat to anyone? No he did not. This was near the beginning of an ever growing, over the top, incipient Police State we now find ourselves in because it has gone unchecked for so long.

Hey, what the heck. As long as it's the other person and not me, why should I care? Besides that, they were just a bunch of loony Christians. I know because the government told me so.

[StreetScooby 5]

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Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives should be a convenience store not a government agency.

I bought that T-shirt years ago. It's faded, but still one of my favorites.

We are all engines of karma

[popsjumper 2]

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...an ever growing, over the top, incipient Police State we now find ourselves in because it has gone unchecked for so long.

Hey, what the heck. As long as it's the other person and not me, why should I care? Besides that, they were just a bunch of loony Christians. I know because the government told me so.

Keep in mind we are talking about 'Merican citizens sheeple. The "checking" will never happen.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[billvon 3,114]

>This was near the beginning of an ever growing, over the top, incipient Police State
>we now find ourselves in because it has gone unchecked for so long.

I find it interesting how your position on government power has changed over time. In 2004 you defended the Patriot Act and denied it could be used to reduce your rights:

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I'm very familiar with the Patriot Act. I'm also familiar with the politicians from both parties who overwhelmingly passed it. Perhaps since you are such an expert and all on the Patriot Act that you could explain to us what "new" powers the Patriot Act gave the government that didn't exist before and how those new powers are being used to take away your freedoms. Also would be nice if you could explain to someone as ignorant as I am, what rights you have personally lost that are more important than the additional communications the Patriot Act creates within the different law enforcement agencies that these rights you have lost are so dramatically important that you feel the additional law enforcement powers should be subjugated.
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I'd suggest that that's how we got where we are today. I'm sure you don't think of yourself as some kind of ignorant sheep who doesn't care about rights, but every single person who has supported increased governmental powers used justifications such as yours. "This law doesn't give government any new powers." "You won't lose any rights." "It just helps communication!"

The path to hell is lined with good intentions.

[Gravitymaster 0]

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>This was near the beginning of an ever growing, over the top, incipient Police State
>we now find ourselves in because it has gone unchecked for so long.

I find it interesting how your position on government power has changed over time. In 2004 you defended the Patriot Act and denied it could be used to reduce your rights:

===========
I'm very familiar with the Patriot Act. I'm also familiar with the politicians from both parties who overwhelmingly passed it. Perhaps since you are such an expert and all on the Patriot Act that you could explain to us what "new" powers the Patriot Act gave the government that didn't exist before and how those new powers are being used to take away your freedoms. Also would be nice if you could explain to someone as ignorant as I am, what rights you have personally lost that are more important than the additional communications the Patriot Act creates within the different law enforcement agencies that these rights you have lost are so dramatically important that you feel the additional law enforcement powers should be subjugated.
===========

I'd suggest that that's how we got where we are today. I'm sure you don't think of yourself as some kind of ignorant sheep who doesn't care about rights, but every single person who has supported increased governmental powers used justifications such as yours. "This law doesn't give government any new powers." "You won't lose any rights." "It just helps communication!"

The path to hell is lined with good intentions.

That path started way before the Patriot Act. Waco happened many years before 911. BTW, I opposed the govt. controling TSA. I believe you supported it. Privatization would not have gotten us where we are today.

[billvon 3,114]

>That path started way before the Patriot Act.

I agree. And at every step the people supporting that path felt as you did back then. "This law doesn't give government any new powers." "You won't lose any rights." Etc etc. Multiply that by 40 years of good intentions - and we are where we are today.

[popsjumper 2]

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Actually it was outside Waco.
Pronounced "way-coe".
So no, it didn't.

I got a tune on the tip o' da' tongue...
"Allllllll my wackos live in Waco..."
....but I just can't pin down where it comes from.


Ex-Terry...you're still wacko.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[tkhayes 348]

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David Koresh was a raging lunatic.

He was a raging RELIGIOUS lunatic, self-proclaimed 'prophet'

Not sure why no one believed that, I mean if Jesus Christ himself showed up today, it is doubtful that any one of these religious groups would believe it anyway....

After-all most evangelical Christians in the USA believe that God and America have a special connection, that God intended America to be 'the place' over and above any other 'Christian place'

David Koresh was American. Americans like guns. David Koresh liked guns. Americans like religion. David Koresh liked religion.

I have no idea why everyone who thinks this way would be held high as a 'messsiah'

[wayneflorida 0]

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>That path started way before the Patriot Act.

I agree. And at every step the people supporting that path felt as you did back then. "This law doesn't give government any new powers." "You won't lose any rights." Etc etc. Multiply that by 40 years of good intentions - and we are where we are today.

I wonder if a State had passed the Patriot Act, or something very similar, whether it would stand up to a Supreme Court challenge?

I believe most of the Patriot Act was sitting in somebodies' desk just waiting for the right climate to get it passed. And now in somebodies' desk is another piece of legislation waiting for the right climate.

That's all I will say because they are watching me.