kelpdiver 2 #26 February 23, 2012 QuoteQuoteQuoteThere is an agenda in basic chemistry? How so? if this were basic chemistry, we'd be dead by now, living on Venus II. Reality is somewhat more complicated. Equations please nah, just facts. In the last year I've been on snow in Africa. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #27 February 23, 2012 Just listen children CO2 is a greenhouse gas We put greenhouse gas in the atmosphere Simple huh but we all know it is not It is more than this Too many unknowns Go ahead teach chemistry but to make sense teacher relate it to real life that is where the problem is"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shah269 0 #28 February 23, 2012 Quotenah, just facts. In the last year I've been on snow in Africa. I'm sorry what? snow in Africa? The chemisty is easy, you burn X lbs of this you get Y lbs of that. You do realize the earth is a closed system right?Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay. The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #29 February 23, 2012 Quote>Every gaseous molecule that has dissimilar atoms is a green house gas... ?? So is ozone. That doesn't have dissimilar atoms. are you sure? I mean,...there's oxygen....and then there's another oxygen.....and there's that other thing.... ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,182 #30 February 23, 2012 QuoteQuote Children should be first taught the basics of the scientific method. What about the scientific wild ass guesses about the earth in 2100? The antithesis of scientific method because the conclusions cannot be tested until, oh, 2100. The latest issue of Scientific American has predictions on the behavior of stars and galaxies that can't be verified for 100,000,000,000 years. It's still science.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #31 February 23, 2012 Quote You do realize the earth is a closed system right? No it's not. Energy and material come in from outside oh yeah and some leaves too... Does not seem closed to me. (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shah269 0 #32 February 23, 2012 QuoteQuote You do realize the earth is a closed system right? No it's not. Energy and material come in from outside oh yeah and some leaves too... Does not seem closed to me. Ok yes you do get some water in and some H does go out. But in the long and short you are not picking huge quantities of carbon or pushing it out. What you got is what you go.Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay. The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
StreetScooby 5 #33 February 23, 2012 Quote So is ozone. Ok. There's alot of greenhouse gases.We are all engines of karma Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #34 February 23, 2012 QuoteQuoteQuote You do realize the earth is a closed system right? No it's not. Energy and material come in from outside oh yeah and some leaves too... Does not seem closed to me. Ok yes you do get some water in and some H does go out. But in the long and short you are not picking huge quantities of carbon or pushing it out. What you got is what you go. But my point is to refute your assertion .... it's not even close to being closed... a shit load of energy arrives every second. We're a part of an oh so complex system and NO ONE knows how it works enough to be 100% sure of the impact of changing any part or parts of that system. (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shah269 0 #35 February 23, 2012 And a shit load leaves every second. But we burn carobon and that means of that shit load some of it hangs around a little longer than it should. Which is bad. You know what I love about people who fight this climate change thing? They apparently hate to save money. Carbon is expensive. If you drive or heat your home it's costing you money. If you can find a way to use less carbon you will save yourself money. And who doesn't want to save money?Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay. The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #36 February 23, 2012 QuoteQuotenah, just facts. In the last year I've been on snow in Africa. I'm sorry what? snow in Africa? The chemisty is easy, you burn X lbs of this you get Y lbs of that. You do realize the earth is a closed system right? this feels no different than an economics discussion with you. Boldly stated facts that are in fact fantasies of your's. If we were a closed system, we'd be dead. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shah269 0 #37 February 23, 2012 QuoteIf we were a closed system, we'd be dead. yeah we get energy and we expell energy but we are not getting carbon or loosing it...well not much anyway. But please do explain and please use science and don't just get angry and find one little bit of unusual information to build your case on. Jesus walked on water! I don't think anyone else can. Thus...we can't walk on water.Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay. The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,132 #38 February 23, 2012 >There is an agenda in basic chemistry? Reality has a well known liberal bias. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,132 #39 February 23, 2012 >Ok. There's alot of greenhouse gases. Definitely. They are what make life here possible. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #40 February 23, 2012 QuoteQuoteIf we were a closed system, we'd be dead. yeah we get energy and we expell energy but we are not getting carbon or loosing it...well not much anyway. In a discussion of global warming, how can you ignore the incoming and outgoing heat from the system? The basis of the entire discussion is that greenhouse gases like carbon dioxide may lower the amount of heat radiation into space. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lawrocket 3 #41 February 24, 2012 Quote The latest issue of Scientific American has predictions on the behavior of stars and galaxies that can't be verified for 100,000,000,000 years. It's still science. We can hardly predict tomorrow's headlines because of the number of variables involved in what happens tomorrow. And yet we should believe we can predict thirty trillion years from now? Well, yes. Try as we might we've never found an exception to the laws of thermodynamics. Now that we know about the acceleration of the universe, we can see that gravity isn't strong enough, eh? Thus we know something we didn't know 20 years ago - that the evidence shows that the universe ain't going to collapse under its own gravity into a singularity, as was the popular notion up to the most recent decade. And again, we still haven't ever demonstrated an exception to the laws of thermodynamics. We can't extract energy from nothing, so energy is finite. We can't break even on energy, because of the law of entropy. And the third law says we can't even get out of the game, so with finite energy becoming tougher to use and an expanding universe making it more dilute, I reckon a prediction of a cold end is a good one. Note - the degenerate era doesn't just describe the advent of sport parachuting.There's a REASON why a cold dark universe is expected. But how about this, John? Why the controversy over the Big Rip? Most astronomers don't think it'll happen. My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lawrocket 3 #42 February 24, 2012 QuoteIn a discussion of global warming, how can you ignore the incoming and outgoing heat from the system? You can't. The left side of the equation is incoming energy. Incoming is defined in the equation as (solar constant) x (1 - albedo) divided by 4 (25 percent of a disc getting energy). For a long time the solar constant was assumed to be constant. We now know it isn't. My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,132 #43 February 24, 2012 >Carbon is expensive. The problem is that it's cheaper than the clean alternatives if you ignore all the side effects of its acquisition and burning. Which, of course, is why it's burned. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #44 February 24, 2012 Quote>There is an agenda in basic chemistry? Reality has a well known liberal bias. think that one through again - the laws of nature don't change unless this is just a lame political statement - but since you wrote liberal with a lower case 'L' then I didn't think so ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #45 February 24, 2012 QuoteQuoteIf we were a closed system, we'd be dead. yeah we get energy and we expell energy but we are not getting carbon or loosing it...well not much anyway. But please do explain and please use science and don't just get angry and find one little bit of unusual information to build your case on. Jesus walked on water! I don't think anyone else can. Thus...we can't walk on water. You still don't see it do you ...... We're being lied to (or at the very least misled) and I don't like being lied to and ripped of. And then there are people that support the lies by re-quoting them and mis-truths like "The Earth is a closed system" - Know what that does to the credibility of your argument? Especially when you wont retract it - It destroys it - Bang gone!! (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skiskyrock 0 #46 February 24, 2012 QuoteQuoteIn a discussion of global warming, how can you ignore the incoming and outgoing heat from the system? You can't. The left side of the equation is incoming energy. Incoming is defined in the equation as (solar constant) x (1 - albedo) divided by 4 (25 percent of a disc getting energy). For a long time the solar constant was assumed to be constant. We now know it isn't. We've know about variations in solar intensity for the last hundred + years, but the variations are tiny. We have satellite data for the last 35 ears or so which shows no long-term trend that would explain current warming. The satellite data shows a variation between 1360 and 1363 W/M^2, so a calling it a constant is a good approximation. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shah269 0 #47 February 24, 2012 Quote>Carbon is expensive. The problem is that it's cheaper than the clean alternatives if you ignore all the side effects of its acquisition and burning. Which, of course, is why it's burned. there has been lots of face plams here. but I will answer this one. listen to your mother. when you walk out of a room...TURN OFF THE FREAKING LIGHTS! CLOSE THE DOOR BEHIND YOU! DONT' STAND IN FRONT OF THE FRIDGE ALL DAY! going green is that simple, and it will save you money. and again DO NOT ARGUE WITH MATH OR SCIENCE. Unlike faith it is accountable, predictable, repeatable and best of doesn't ask you to wake up early or not eat a given type of food. Do not argue with the math the science or chemistryLife through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay. The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #48 February 24, 2012 Not challenging maths, science or anything is to remain stagnant. Should we have accepted 1930s cryptography or challenge it and move to better codes through maths? Should we have accepted Middle Ages crop yields or challenged biology and feed more people per acre? (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,132 #49 February 24, 2012 >think that one through again - the laws of nature don't change Stolen from Stephen Colbert. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shah269 0 #50 February 24, 2012 hu? It's basic chemistry. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HydrocarbonLife through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay. The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
