Heartlandgate

[kallend 2,182]

dotearth.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/02/15/documents-appear-to-reveal-broad-effort-to-amplify-climate-uncertainty/

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[rushmc 23]

Quote

dotearth.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/02/15/documents-appear-to-reveal-broad-effort-to-amplify-climate-uncertainty/

Did you read it?

IF you did, what effect do you think it has other than outing some donors?

Nothing even close to what the alarmists are doing

Oh and BTW, it is an opinion piece with an obvious agenda

Thanks for posting

Heartland shows more honesty in what they are doing when compared to the alarmists

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[lawrocket 3]

I like Revkin a lot. Why? because he catches hell from all sides.

Of course, this is ad hominem. Heartland has been in the crosshairs for some time.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[rushmc 23]

Quote

I like Revkin a lot. Why? because he catches hell from all sides.

Of course, this is ad hominem. Heartland has been in the crosshairs for some time.

This looks to me like they are being attacked simply because they exist

No hide the decline, just an attempt to rev people up

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[skinnay 0]

Just follow the money, right?

http://arstechnica.com/science/news/2012/02/leaked-docs-heartland-institute-think-tank-pays-climate-contrarians-very-well.ars?clicked=related_right

[rushmc 23]

Quote

Just follow the money, right?

http://arstechnica.com/science/news/2012/02/leaked-docs-heartland-institute-think-tank-pays-climate-contrarians-very-well.ars?clicked=related_right

With out even looking at you link?

Yes, follow the money

It is working both ways

But only one side get the majority of the gov grants, now dont they........

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[mnealtx 0]

Quote

I like Revkin a lot. Why? because he catches hell from all sides.

Of course, this is ad hominem. Heartland has been in the crosshairs for some time.

A scathing rebuttal from the Bayonet:

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Al Gore spent $300 million advertising the global warming hoax. Greenpeace, the WWF, the Sierra Club, The Natural Resources Defense Council, NASA, NOAA, the UN and nation states have collectively poured billions into climate research, alternative energies and propaganda, supported along the way by most of the broadcast and print media.

Yet they’ve been thwarted by a few honest scientists, a number of blogs and a small pile of cash from Heartland.

Here’s a clue for DeSmog, Joe Romm and other warmists enjoying a little schadenfreude today. It’s not the money that’s beating you, it’s the message.

*That's* gonna leave a mark.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[mnealtx 0]

Quote

Just follow the money, right?

http://arstechnica.com/science/news/2012/02/leaked-docs-heartland-institute-think-tank-pays-climate-contrarians-very-well.ars?clicked=related_right

Why, yes...lets follow the money: Link

Heartland: 6.5 million
Greenpeace: 310 million
Sierra Club: 100 million
NRDC: 95 million

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[rushmc 23]

And now that I have read it, so what?

No big scandal

Just plans

I know the alarmists are desperate to have a scandal on the other side but sheesh, give us a break...........

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 23]

Quote

Quote

Just follow the money, right?

http://arstechnica.com/science/news/2012/02/leaked-docs-heartland-institute-think-tank-pays-climate-contrarians-very-well.ars?clicked=related_right

Why, yes...lets follow the money: Link

Heartland: 6.5 million
Greenpeace: 310 million
Sierra Club: 100 million
NRDC: 95 million

ouch

another mark

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[skinnay 0]

Right, those damn climate scientists have chosen to abandon all real science and create a racket for government grants so they can all keep their jobs. I'm sure AIDS and cancer researchers are doing the same thing, you better get to work on exposing them also!

[rushmc 23]

Quote

Right, those damn climate scientists have chosen to abandon all real science and create a racket for government grants so they can all keep their jobs. I'm sure AIDS and cancer researchers are doing the same thing, you better get to work on exposing them also!

Ya, I know

There are no real scientists on the denier side

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[billvon 3,132]

>This looks to me like they are being attacked simply because they exist

Ironically, that would be the definition of what the deniers have been doing for the past 10 years.

[mnealtx 0]

Quote

>This looks to me like they are being attacked simply because they exist

Ironically, that would be the definition of what the deniers have been doing for the past 10 years.

The 'deniers' question the "science", it's the alarmists that attack the individuals.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[lawrocket 3]

The travesty is that it's not about science. It's about politics. If this sounds like a political campaing because of the focus on the sources for campaign cahs, it's because it is an argument centered on the sources of campaign cash.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[rushmc 23]

Quote

The travesty is that it's not about science. It's about politics. If this sounds like a political campaing because of the focus on the sources for campaign cahs, it's because it is an argument centered on the sources of campaign cash.

Yes
Which was why I was a bit surprised by the post to begin with

Of course no comment was made by the OP

Wonder what he saw?

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[lawrocket 3]

And another thing - it's been forty years and every time somebody wants to make a suggestion that something is scandalous they put "-gate" at the end of some word. Climategate, Irangate, Filegate, Surrogate, Propogate, Blowjobgate, etc.

It's old. It's used up. New scandal - "Banalgate!"

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[rushmc 23]

Quote

And another thing - it's been forty years and every time somebody wants to make a suggestion that something is scandalous they put "-gate" at the end of some word. Climategate, Irangate, Filegate, Surrogate, Propogate, Blowjobgate, etc.

It's old. It's used up. New scandal - "Banalgate!"

Gotta remember Nixon for something other and getting us out of Nam

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[mnealtx 0]

"Oh what a tangled web we weave, when first we practice to deceive.."

Link:

Comments from Revkin:

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One way or the other, Gleick’s use of deception in pursuit of his cause after years of calling out climate deception has destroyed his credibility and harmed others. (Some of the released documents contain information about Heartland employees that has no bearing on the climate fight.) That is his personal tragedy and shame (and I’m sure devastating for his colleagues, friends and family).

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[winsor 236]

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>This looks to me like they are being attacked simply because they exist

Ironically, that would be the definition of what the deniers have been doing for the past 10 years.

You realize, of course, that your use of such verbiage as 'deniers' rather neutralizes your intended argument, much like the term 'heretics' calls into question charges against people who fail to adequately support the Church.

To find Al Sharpton despicable is a sure way to garner the accusation of being 'racist' - even if one merely sees him as the equivalent of David Duke with a fashionable skin color.

The religious fervor surrounding the 'climate debate' is both distasteful and distracting.

Monitoring the temperature of our planet should be viewed as is sticking a thermometer in the mouth of an ailing patient. The symptoms are indictative of much more life-threatening conditions, and only a fool would conclude that temperature is the primary issue in and of itself.

Having 8 billion people starving to death under perfect climactic conditions is viewed as an ideal solution? Give me a break.

The whole 'climate change' issue is a red herring.

Do we face real and overwhelming issues in the forseeable future? Yes.

Is 'climate change' on the short list? Not hardly.


BSBD,

Winsor

[billvon 3,132]

>You realize, of course, that your use of such verbiage as 'deniers' rather neutralizes
>your intended argument . . .

I disagree. Alarmists and deniers are the people making all the noise in the climate debate. Filter both out and you're left with the scientists actually working on the issue.

In engineering, it is very common to spend a lot of time studying the sort of noise you get in a communications system. Is it thermal noise from amplifiers? Shot noise? Multipath fading? Power supply ripple? We do this not because we prefer noise to signal - but rather to do a better job filtering the noise from the signal, because the signal is what's important.

[rushmc 23]

Quote

>You realize, of course, that your use of such verbiage as 'deniers' rather neutralizes
>your intended argument . . .

I disagree. Alarmists and deniers are the people making all the noise in the climate debate. Filter both out and you're left with the scientists actually working on the issue.

In engineering, it is very common to spend a lot of time studying the sort of noise you get in a communications system. Is it thermal noise from amplifiers? Shot noise? Multipath fading? Power supply ripple? We do this not because we prefer noise to signal - but rather to do a better job filtering the noise from the signal, because the signal is what's important.

Your side is no different

Except to say they tend to be more vitriolic

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[headoverheels 334]

Quote

And another thing - it's been forty years and every time somebody wants to make a suggestion that something is scandalous they put "-gate" at the end of some word. Climategate, Irangate, Filegate, Surrogate, Propogate, Blowjobgate, etc.

Yep. If the original happened today, it would be Watergate-gate.

[lawrocket 3]

This thing is getting interesting. This whole matter, like the CRU/Anglia hack and the entire discussion to begin with is about personalities, politics and money. Period. Politics is an adjunct for science and science is an adjunct for politics.

Whose fault is it? Both sides. Asshole predictions that the sea level will rise 30 feet by 2100 are not science, which is why they always say, “Sea level may rise by nine meters by 2100.” And it is responded to politically.

Why is there a Realclimate website? How about Joe Romm? Wattsupwiththat? All these websites being put out there to influence public perception of climate science and, more importantly, to influence the policymakers. So Gleick authors a paper on integrity in 2010 and then does this because he’s so frustrated and fed up with the deniers that he uses the dirty tactics he decried.

What does that do? It lets us see where the moral and intellectual integrity exists and where it does not. Did Gleick put out any information that was NOT intended to be an attack on the substantive positions of the deniers? Nope. Did he do so in a fraudulent manner? Yep.

Take a look at the CRU hack for the same thing. What did the CRU e-mails show? A group of climate scientists forming a close and exclusive buddy clique railing on deniers and showing themselves to be human beings. Asshole hackers showing asshole climate scientists to be a political think tank. Now you’ve got an asshole scientist showing a political think tank to be, shockingly, a political think tank!

And Gleick will be defended by those who think that reaching the end result by any means necessary is the righteous course. And those with integrity will view Gleick as having destroyed his reputation and damaged the cause. Yep – “the cause.” Gleick was a scientist playing politics. The CRU hacker was playing politics.

Climate science and politics cannot be disentangled at this point. The money is too big. The costs to reputations too great. Neither side can back down.

My wife is hotter than your wife.