jgoose71 0 #26 February 15, 2012 QuoteQuote The growing trend is to admit and sell diplomas to foreign students at full tuition to get paid (in some cases the students don't even have to show up for class). what happens in North fucking Dakota has nothing to do with reality. This article that i posted only sites North Dakota as an example. Right now in US colleges there is between 600,000 and 700.000 foreign students attending our universities (not including illegal mexicans who are considered citizens by most states and are given scholoarships). Diplomas are the next big export, especially to students that can pay full tuition. Besides, Asia has a thriving middle class now that they have to educate and maintain so they can continue to run all the factories we have outsourced to them....."There is an art, it says, or, rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss." Life, the Universe, and Everything Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #27 February 15, 2012 QuoteQuoteBlacks and Hispanics are now pissed at the Asians. Now ask yourself why are they now pissed at the Asians. Because someone else is dipping into their goody bag"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GeorgiaDon 380 #28 February 15, 2012 QuoteThe growing trend is to admit and sell diplomas to foreign students at full tuition to get paid (in some cases the students don't even have to show up for class). And from your other post: QuoteRight now in US colleges there is between 600,000 and 700.000 foreign students attending our universities (not including illegal mexicans who are considered citizens by most states and are given scholoarships). Diplomas are the next big export, especially to students that can pay full tuition. It's true that universities have to look for other sources of revenue, as state funding has decreased dramatically in the past couple of decades, and especially over the past decade. In some states (I have heard Wisconsin, for example, though I don't have a link) state funding now accounts for less than 10% of the operating costs of the so-called "public" universities. Foreign students willing to pay full tuition take some of the pressure off, resulting in tuition increases to in-state students that are lower than they otherwise would be (though the increases are still painful). There are other benefits too. Foreign students who study here experience the American culture, and often end up exporting those values to their home country when they return. Similarly, American students benefit by their exposure to people who come from a completely different background. Students who only come into contact with other Americans during their time in school miss a great opportunity to expand their education. Also, many of the best and brightest of the foreign students end up immigrating and staying permanently in the US, so the US gets to harvest many of the smartest and hardest working people in the world and put them to work here. [Disclaimer: although I wouldn't count myself amongst the "best and brightest", compared to some others I know who have gone the same route, this is how I came to be a US citizen). If you think it is a good idea to bar admitting foreign students, you might want to change the name of your institution to a "Statesiversity" or "Xenophobersity", because it certainly won't have anything universal about it. Regarding the Dickenson College situation, I don't know if they are a degree mill or not. I do know that in the classes I teach I do not know who is a foreign student, who is out-of-state, and who is in-state. I do know that everybody in my courses must complete the same assignments and pass the same exams. No-one is given a pass who doesn't complete all the work. Don_____________________________________ Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996) “Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #29 February 15, 2012 QuoteQuoteQuote The growing trend is to admit and sell diplomas to foreign students at full tuition to get paid (in some cases the students don't even have to show up for class). what happens in North fucking Dakota has nothing to do with reality. This article that i posted only sites North Dakota as an example. Right now in US colleges there is between 600,000 and 700.000 foreign students attending our universities (not including illegal mexicans who are considered citizens by most states and are given scholoarships). Diplomas are the next big export, especially to students that can pay full tuition. Besides, Asia has a thriving middle class now that they have to educate and maintain so they can continue to run all the factories we have outsourced to them..... and yet your only evidence is a tiny school in the middle of nowhere. Didn't stop you from implying the same of Berkeley, though, did it? Cal and the other UCs have increased the acceptance of out of state residents as they pay full freight for at least 3 years. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
regulator 0 #30 February 15, 2012 Quote Quote African Americans and Hispanics are challenging California's prop 209, that eliminated affirmative action in 1997; but it's not the whites their pissed at. it is they are, not their. another spelling nazi --------------------------------------------------- Actually I think this instance the term 'punctuation nazi' would be more appropriate. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #31 February 15, 2012 Quote Quote Quote African Americans and Hispanics are challenging California's prop 209, that eliminated affirmative action in 1997; but it's not the whites their pissed at. it is they are, not their. another spelling nazi --------------------------------------------------- Actually I think this instance the term 'punctuation nazi' would be more appropriate. All one and the same here"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhaig 0 #32 February 15, 2012 Quote Actually I think this instance the term 'punctuation nazi' would be more appropriate. semantics nazi-- Rob Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jgoose71 0 #33 February 16, 2012 Quote If you think it is a good idea to bar admitting foreign students, you might want to change the name of your institution to a "Statesiversity" or "Xenophobersity", because it certainly won't have anything universal about it. Never said it was bad or "throw them out." All I said was that Asia is starting to get a thriving middle class and they are sending there students to the U.S. to learn. I think that it's only fair that since they are getting all our jobs, we should rob them blind in tuition. I guess that if I have any bitch it's that I will never benefit from any of it, being a white male and all..... The universities will continue to sink money into opulent surroundings, free educations to minorities, hookers and blow for the football teams, and high salaries for the teachers..... And my lily white ass will be stuck paying Asian prices for my kids to go to college......"There is an art, it says, or, rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss." Life, the Universe, and Everything Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jgoose71 0 #34 February 16, 2012 Quote and yet your only evidence is a tiny school in the middle of nowhere. Didn't stop you from implying the same of Berkeley, though, did it? Cal and the other UCs have increased the acceptance of out of state residents as they pay full freight for at least 3 years. Didn't actually say UC berkley was a diploma mill, but let's look at some facts: 1. They are on the left coast, facing asia. 2. The Demographics don't match. What % of the area is asian? What % of the UC Berkley student body is asian? 3. The Asian thriving middle class can afford to send there kids to American schools. Us broke ass Americans can't. As of right now, if I was a betting man, I would say that they are not giving away diplomas. The UC school system does have a rep to protect. However, I'm sure that if you were to audit their admissions office, you would probably find some preferential treatment. Since Asians are "minorities" in America, I'm sure they never expected to be called on it."There is an art, it says, or, rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss." Life, the Universe, and Everything Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,120 #35 February 16, 2012 >1. They are on the left coast, facing asia. You have a very similar mix of students at MIT, and they're definitely not a diploma mill. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #36 February 16, 2012 Quote Didn't actually say UC berkley was a diploma mill, but let's look at some facts: Long tirade of nonsense facts and theory pulled out of someone's ass. The reality of the situation is that Asians believe they are discriminated against, not favored, by admissions policies. At best they are treated the same as whites. BTW, the demographic you need to be looking for are 4.0+ students with SATs at the 90% percentile. The UC charter is to admit the top 12.5% of California high school grads, but even that doesn't do it for Cal or UCLA, or even the 'lower' rated of the 10 schools. The population grew and only Merced has been built in the past 3 decades. But the rest of your delusion, plus the prior statements, show little point in trying to correct your complete lack of understanding of how admissions work at the elite schools of America. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #37 February 16, 2012 Quote >1. They are on the left coast, facing asia. You have a very similar mix of students at MIT, and they're definitely not a diploma mill. Meh...every uni sells diplomas. The only difference is the costs. How much money and how much work? You pay with money, blood, sweat, and tears on a sliding scale. Kind like Ho's...you know what you're buying, it's just a matter of cost. A wise old sage once said... "Back where I come from, we have universities, seats of great learning, where men go to become great thinkers. And when they come out, they think deep thoughts and with no more brains than you have. But they have one thing you haven't got: a diploma. " My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #38 February 16, 2012 Quote ....complete lack of understanding of how admissions work at the elite schools of America. Well, they let me in...so ipso facto something needs to be corrected. My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,120 #39 February 16, 2012 >You pay with money, blood, sweat, and tears on a sliding scale. That's definitely true! And sometimes it's all four. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jgoose71 0 #40 February 16, 2012 Quote But the rest of your delusion, plus the prior statements, show little point in trying to correct your complete lack of understanding of how admissions work at the elite schools of America. And you are delusional if you don't understand the power of the all mighty dollar. Once again, not saying that all Universities are diploma mills. Just that admission can be bought. What you do after you get your foot in the door is up to you...."There is an art, it says, or, rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss." Life, the Universe, and Everything Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GeorgiaDon 380 #41 February 16, 2012 QuoteOnce again, not saying that all Universities are diploma mills. Just that admission can be bought. It's surprising to me that a conservative capitalist would have any problem with this. I thought everything should be bought, and nothing (not even life-saving medical treatment) should be available as an "entitlement"? Don_____________________________________ Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996) “Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,150 #42 February 16, 2012 QuoteQuote But the rest of your delusion, plus the prior statements, show little point in trying to correct your complete lack of understanding of how admissions work at the elite schools of America. And you are delusional if you don't understand the power of the all mighty dollar. Once again, not saying that all Universities are diploma mills. Just that admission can be bought. What you do after you get your foot in the door is up to you.... Yale called it a "legacy admit" when GWB was admitted. Something to do with his grandfather Prescott being a major donor.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jgoose71 0 #43 February 16, 2012 Quote Quote Once again, not saying that all Universities are diploma mills. Just that admission can be bought. It's surprising to me that a conservative capitalist would have any problem with this. I thought everything should be bought, and nothing (not even life-saving medical treatment) should be available as an "entitlement"? Don You read a couple of my posts and now I get the label "conservative capitalist?" I prefer to think of my self as "financially conservative, and socially fabulous..." And please don't confuse "bought" with "earned." There is a difference...."There is an art, it says, or, rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss." Life, the Universe, and Everything Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #44 February 17, 2012 Quote And please don't confuse "bought" with "earned." There is a difference.... I think I understand that. I earned a slot because Daddy bought a building. Got it! See what I mean about "thinking great thoughts"? My diploma rocks!My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #45 February 17, 2012 QuoteQuoteQuote But the rest of your delusion, plus the prior statements, show little point in trying to correct your complete lack of understanding of how admissions work at the elite schools of America. And you are delusional if you don't understand the power of the all mighty dollar. Once again, not saying that all Universities are diploma mills. Just that admission can be bought. What you do after you get your foot in the door is up to you.... Yale called it a "legacy admit" when GWB was admitted. Something to do with his grandfather Prescott being a major donor. "Legacy" admissions are children of former Yalies. Bush Sr and Prescott were both Yalies, as well as *gasp* John F'in Kerry's father.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shah269 0 #46 February 17, 2012 Look I'm all for diversity and all but there is something to be said about defacto segregation. Take for example my beloved education, engineering. You are going to get 2 chicks and 52 dicks. Odds are it will be either odd white guys who have never seen the sun or guys from SEA. And the same can be said about other fields of study, it is what it is. Yes I for one would love it if the field of engineering were more diverse and there were people of other cultures and maybe a few more girls....but it is what it is... We as a species naturally segregate ourselves? And maybe that's UC's problem? Maybe their surrounding neighborhood is primarily Asian. And thus most of their students just happen to be Asian.Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay. The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GeorgiaDon 380 #47 February 17, 2012 Here at the University of Georgia 65% of the undergrad student population is female. That includes majors like chemistry and biology that are not traditional female-dominated areas, such as education. Your problem if you didn't check such things out before signing up wherever you went to school/chose a profession. And why do you hate guys from South East Arizona so much? Here's the deal: getting into and staying in a decent university should be a meritocracy. Each school should "cherry pick" the applicants who bring the most to the school. Generally that means the students who took academics seriously in high school, and generally these days that means girls. Personally, and with some degree of seriousness, I blame sports. When I do outreach presentations at elementary and high schools, and ask students what they are thinking about for a career, virtually all the boys say "NBA" or "NFL", or very rarely "golf". I never hear "doctor" or "CEO" from the boys, but I do hear it from the girls. All the boys, even the skinny runty ones, are dazzled by the big paychecks earned by a very small number of sports superstars, and so are their parents it seems. Spending time shooting hoops is seen as better career training than doing homework. Academically, for many boys the bar is set at the level of getting a sports scholarship, which means spelling your name correctly (with perhaps just a little bit of coaching). Aside from the few who do manage to get sports scholarships, the rest of the boys are just outcompeted by the girls when it comes to earning admission to university. Sports as "fun" and "character building" are fine, but professional sports as the only career plan for >90% of young males is incredibly destructive. I'm pretty sure the same is true with the asian dominance at Berkeley too. Asian culture traditionally values excellence in academics, much more than "American" culture does. Sometimes schools set "diversity" targets because they see that students are missing out on aspects of the non-classroom-based aspects of the education they are supposed to receive at university. If all they see are people who look and act just like themselves, they won't be as well prepared to deal with the real world post-university as the student who experiences something closer to real-world diversity. Of course, the real world is also full of stupid, uneducated, and otherwise vacuous people too, but there are limits to what a diversity program can be expected to accomplish. Don_____________________________________ Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996) “Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #48 February 17, 2012 Those are good points, Don.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shah269 0 #49 February 17, 2012 I live on both sides of the fence. Being an immigrant. When my mom speaks with her Persian friends she always mentions that two of her three boys are engineers. When she talks to her American friends she always mentions that two of her three boys make 6 figures. Defacto segregation is cultural. People of a given part of the world and of a given background place prestige on a given field of work and study. Others don't. Thus from my travels around the world, you are going to find mostly West Asian and people from SEA who gravitate to technology fields. And of these people a good 90% will be dudes. As such, I don't think the university is at all in the wrong, it's just the way things go.Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay. The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
headoverheels 334 #50 February 17, 2012 Quote Yale called it a "legacy admit" when GWB was admitted. Something to do with his grandfather Prescott being a major donor. I call that "ensuring diversity." It wasn't like he was going to win admission on his own merits. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
