kallend 2,146 #176 January 13, 2012 Quote Quote "Absence of evidence of absence does not give rise to a presumption of presence." -Andy9o8 "Absence of evidence of presence does not give rise to a presumption of absence." -Popsjumper I'm here...you just can't see me because I'm hiding my face behind this keyboard. There are an infinite number of things for which no evidence exists. Do you believe in all of them? If not, why pick and choose which myths you believe?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,146 #177 January 13, 2012 A really important question.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
devildog 0 #178 January 13, 2012 QuoteIf God is truly as understanding and forgiving as many that believe in him like to portray, if he does exist, he would be able to understand and forgive those who don't believe for wanting to follow religion with logic, a measure in which one tends to gauge all other aspects of life. This whole absence of evidence thing evidence of absence thing shouldn't matter. If he existed and wanted to prove it, why not perform some of the miracles he performed in the bible, you know - ones that everyone can see and record on video. Things like talking spontaniously combusting bushes etc. Why perform blatant miracles for a short period, then once the bible is written and published just stop with the blatant miracles and rely on people to believe a 'broken telephone' and outdated form of facts. I think it's time to have a new child and to give us an updated bible, one where people can't say "Well the bible doesn't mean it that way now, that's because of how things were back then". As far as the OT/NT is concerned, it never was a "believe God exists" requirement. God was already a given. Or to quote, Jam 2:19, "You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that" Any rate, even today plenty of people see more than enough evidence of some sort of God being out there. So maybe the problem isn't in not enough evidence, its that no amount will convince skeptics that a) God is real and most importantly -- going with the above -- that b) Following God is a good thing (which is what its really all about). You can believe God exists all day long, but in OT/NT theology, if you aren't trusting that His word is for the best, and trying to be in line with Him, you're in trouble.You stop breathing for a few minutes and everyone jumps to conclusions. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marinus 0 #179 January 13, 2012 Quote I think your argument for Christianity is more convincing without your gun pointed at us. If Coreece would points a gun at me IRL, I would accept-Jesus-as-my-lord-and-saviour on the spot. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coreece 190 #180 January 13, 2012 Quote Quote I think your argument for Christianity is more convincing without your gun pointed at us. If Coreece would points a gun at me IRL, I would accept-Jesus-as-my-lord-and-saviour on the spot. Awww, that's sweet of you buddy...I'm flattered, but I think base converts are the last thing God would want. You can't force somebody to love you...Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,594 #181 January 13, 2012 Quote Once again *WHOOSH* It's positive, well reasoned contributions like that which make you such a valuable member of the forum!Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #182 January 13, 2012 Quote Oh, I understand what you wrote. What I don't agree with is your need to think any deity must manifest in physical form and be scientifically proven. Bunk. Quote Which deity would that be? Plenty to choose from. I like Odin myself, with the FSM coming in 2nd. ...which is why I said "any". Odin???? One-eyed Odin??? Nah, he didn't have enough godesses hanging around. 72 of them would have been just about right. Odin? Well, now you're going to have to pick which of the nine worlds we're going to deal with. My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #183 January 13, 2012 QuoteThere are an infinite number of things for which no evidence exists. Do you believe in all of them? If not, why pick and choose which myths you believe? You're asking me? If I were to pick something to believe in that offers no physical proof of existence, I'd pick something that's going to be beneficial to me and others around me. I don't think Odin would help me very much so I wouldn't pick him.My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #184 January 13, 2012 Quote Quote I think your argument for Christianity is more convincing without your gun pointed at us. If Coreece would points a gun at me IRL, I would accept-Jesus-as-my-lord-and-saviour on the spot. Now THAT is funny! It would make a believer out of me too!My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marinus 0 #185 January 13, 2012 QuoteIt would make a believer out of me too! ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Crypto-Satan-worshipping-and-probably-gay-god-denier Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #186 January 13, 2012 Quote I don't think Odin would help me very much so I wouldn't pick him. Well, there is that whole 'eternity of beer and wenches' thing... Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #187 January 13, 2012 Quote Quote I don't think Odin would help me very much so I wouldn't pick him. Well, there is that whole 'eternity of beer and wenches' thing... Beer? Wenches? Count me in!My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #188 January 13, 2012 Quote Quote Quote I don't think Odin would help me very much so I wouldn't pick him. Well, there is that whole 'eternity of beer and wenches' thing... Beer? Wenches? Count me in! Be a fun way to mess with a military recruiter... "Religion?" "Asatru"Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
StreetScooby 5 #189 January 14, 2012 Quote "Asatru" Asatruar in the plural form... http://www.erichshall.com/asanew/newtotru.htmWe are all engines of karma Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zenister 0 #190 January 14, 2012 QuoteQuote The problem with "personal experiences" as "observations" is the complete lack of objectivity or external repetition. I can see where this is a problem for some. For others, who have been trained and practice a discipline, they have a framework with a common vocabulary that allows them to describe their observations in meaningful terms. Can you stick a gauge on it? No. Doesn't mean those observations aren't valid, and significant. Valid and significant as to the usefulness of a given discipline to that individual? absolutely. Valuable and significant to the existence of God aka the truth of the mythological components of any discipline/religion? Not at all. No matter how significant or influential the practice of any discipline is in an individuals life, such practice has absolutely no bearing and offers no evidence to support the existence of a supreme being/force or offer support for one mythology over another. Few would dispute the usefulness to the individual (or society as a whole) of christian beliefs (for example as its adherents are the most vocal in this forum) but that doesn't offer any proof whatsoever as to the existence of God, Jesus or any miraculous event described in the Bible.____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #191 January 14, 2012 Quote no evidence to support the existence of a supreme being/force ... ...proof whatsoever as to the existence of God, Jesus or any miraculous event described in the Bible. My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zenister 0 #192 January 14, 2012 once again a lovely contribution to the discussion... are you vying for the title of who can mangle the quote function most? ah.. I get it.. you are having your own internal joke that apparently no one cares about but you... fortunately I'm not participating in YOUR useless discussion, I was responding to Scooby, and in context my use of the words evidence and proof are perfectly valid. Are you getting enough oxygen lately? that level of giddy usually comes with O2 deprivation. while this forum has often been overly moderated I again find myself wishing mods would ban those who continually post that which has nothing to do with the actual discussion taking place, it would help restore the level of intellectual discussion that once took place here. I suppose it's ridiculous to expect much from dizzy.com anymore...____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #193 January 14, 2012 Once again...another who thinks one can physically "prove" the existence of the non-physical. My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zenister 0 #194 January 14, 2012 clearly you are not a student of philosophy (or any other intellectual endeavor)____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zenister 0 #195 January 14, 2012 Quote Once again...another who thinks one can physically "prove" the existence of the non-physical. when you show me where I've set a requirement for "physical" proof I'll perhaps pay attention to you again.____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coreece 190 #196 January 14, 2012 Quote Crypto-Satan-worshipping-and-probably-gay-god-denier Which reminds me...may I have this last dance? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6PRfDJQY_Y8&ob=av2e Be careful, there's a nice change-up at 4:58...don't step on my toes.Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
StreetScooby 5 #197 January 14, 2012 Quote Valid and significant as to the usefulness of a given discipline to that individual? absolutely. Cool, something we can agree on. Quote Valuable and significant to the existence of God aka the truth of the mythological components of any discipline/religion? Not at all. I personally haven't been discussing mythology, nor a "Christian type God" who is a sentient being that sits over us and judges us. Let me be clear on that, again. Quote No matter how significant or influential the practice of any discipline is in an individuals life, such practice has absolutely no bearing and offers no evidence to support the existence of a supreme being/force or offer support for one mythology over another. Sounds like you're continuing to demand "purely scientific evidence" here, independent of the observer. Are you saying it's not possible to observe yourself in a "scientific manner"? What word could we use to describe such a process/discipline? One that you'd feel comfortable with? You and I need that word in this conversation going forward. What about the enormous body of "observations" people have made across all cultures regarding "God", and a personal relationship with "God"? Are you saying absolutely none of those "observations" are valid? On that note, what would you even look for in a personal relationship with "God"? Why do people choose to pursue a discipline with the intent of establishing said relationship? This is a core question in even pursuing these "observations". What are you looking for this "God" to do for you? That's an essential part of the entire process being discussed here. Quote Few would dispute the usefulness to the individual (or society as a whole) of christian beliefs (for example as its adherents are the most vocal in this forum) but that doesn't offer any proof whatsoever as to the existence of God, Jesus or any miraculous event described in the Bible. I'm not even going here. I am not a Christian. I do not view God as Christians view God.We are all engines of karma Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #198 January 14, 2012 EDITED: Quote.when you show me where I've set a requirement for "physical" proof I'll perhaps pay attention to you again. If I misinterpreted your intent, I apologize and retract my comment.My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #199 January 14, 2012 This is just reporting a change in position and rewrite in several articles. When "science" apologies individually and personally to each of us red wine drinkers..... When Dr Das comes over and personally reimburses me for every bottle of red wine I've purchased over the last 20 years..... When science gives me the promised extra years of my life they advertised.... then I'll forgive them ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stevebabin 0 #200 January 14, 2012 QuoteI personally haven't been discussing mythology If you're talking about god(regardless of your imaginings of what that god is), then you're talking about mythology."Science, logic and reason will fly you to the moon. Religion will fly you into buildings." "Because figuring things out is always better than making shit up." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
