popsjumper 2 #151 January 13, 2012 Quote "Absence of evidence of absence does not give rise to a presumption of presence." -Andy9o8 "Absence of evidence of presence does not give rise to a presumption of absence." -Popsjumper I'm here...you just can't see me because I'm hiding my face behind this keyboard.My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #152 January 13, 2012 QuoteWe are currently not aware of the existence of any deity because there is no evidence of one. QuoteMany people believe deitys exist, but belief does not mean there is any that exist and is not enough to conclude that any deity exists. Evidence is needed. Still on the evidence kick, eh? QuoteDoes that clarify? No, but nice back-tracking though. It comes off your earlier stance that God does not exist because you can't prove that HE does.My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #153 January 13, 2012 Quote Let's quote Jesus, shall we? Quote He replied, "Because you have so little faith. I tell you the truth, if you have faith as small as a mustard seed, you can say to this mountain, 'Move from here to there' and it will move. Nothing will be impossible for you." So start having faith that Mount S. Helens will move towards the Dutch Town of Nijmegen. When a whole volcano shows up at my front door, I'll convert on the spot and accept Jesus Christ as-my-lord-and-saviour-amen. Not that I don't have faith that you'll talk your way out of this one within 30 seconds. No need to "talk my way" out of anything. Your need for physical proof is absurd. Now you want to measure how big/small someone's belief is? Piling on absurdity after absurdity. Keep it coming! My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marinus 0 #154 January 13, 2012 Quote You will never get it and you will never "get it". Have fun wasting air and bandwidth. Pops Pot meet kettle! Or in other words, it feels exactly the same on this side of the discussion. An most of us are wasting bandwidth because it's in fact fun. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marinus 0 #155 January 13, 2012 Even if you were trying to convert me, if I can't handle that I should get the F out of the SC. So you aren't a Christian but you follow the teachings of JC anyway. Are you saying you believe in Christianity or something? Edit: Ah I see, approximately that plus some hard to define higher power. (?) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
StreetScooby 5 #156 January 13, 2012 Quote So you aren't a Christian but you follow the teachings of JC anyway. Are you saying you believe in faith or something? I find myself incorporating increasing amounts of Buddhism into my life. The more I learn, the more comfortable I'm becoming with that discipline.We are all engines of karma Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,594 #157 January 13, 2012 QuoteMaybe you and Beowolf can get together and come to some agreement on Pauli's beliefs. Beowolf says, "I think it's pretty reasonable to say that he believed they existed before they could be proven to exist. " As in 'before they could be directly detected'. That's the proof. However, as I have just pointed out and as has gone waaaay over your head, they were originaly postulated because when the results of observations of related particles were plugged into what we know about how the physical universe works, the maths showed that they should be there. The idea wasn't just plucked out of thin air. That's how religion works. Science actually has standards. I don't expect you to understand this, I do expect you to understand we've gone beyond your limitations and stop making a tit of yourself by pretending you know what we're talking about. QuoteYou, like others, are making that invalid assumption that proof of the existence of any non-physical deity is based on physical evidence. Proof? Of course it is. What else could proof possibly be based on? You think the existence of god can be proved without evidence?Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
beowulf 1 #158 January 13, 2012 I don't understand why you think deitys are exempt from needing any evidence to support their existence. Your logic does not make sense. QuoteIt comes off your earlier stance that God does not exist because you can't prove that HE does. No it didn't come off of that stance. I tried to clarify it. You don't seem to be able to understand what I wrote. It's not reasonable to believe any deity exists due to a lack of evidence. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
beowulf 1 #159 January 13, 2012 Quote Quote "Absence of evidence of absence does not give rise to a presumption of presence." -Andy9o8 "Absence of evidence of presence does not give rise to a presumption of absence." -Popsjumper I'm here...you just can't see me because I'm hiding my face behind this keyboard. As if I weren't already questioning your intelligence. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Meso 38 #160 January 13, 2012 If God is truly as understanding and forgiving as many that believe in him like to portray, if he does exist, he would be able to understand and forgive those who don't believe for wanting to follow religion with logic, a measure in which one tends to gauge all other aspects of life. This whole absence of evidence thing evidence of absence thing shouldn't matter. If he existed and wanted to prove it, why not perform some of the miracles he performed in the bible, you know - ones that everyone can see and record on video. Things like talking spontaniously combusting bushes etc. Why perform blatant miracles for a short period, then once the bible is written and published just stop with the blatant miracles and rely on people to believe a 'broken telephone' and outdated form of facts. I think it's time to have a new child and to give us an updated bible, one where people can't say "Well the bible doesn't mean it that way now, that's because of how things were back then". Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coreece 190 #161 January 13, 2012 QuoteIf you do that test over and over, and never get that result, you can say with some certainty "God as defined by his actions in Joshua 10:13 does not exist." ...but if you went on to read Joshua 10:14 you'd see why your test is silly and completely falls apart.Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coreece 190 #162 January 13, 2012 Quotewhy not perform some of the miracles he performed in the bible, you know - ones that everyone can see and record on video. He already performed the ultimate miracle through his death and ressurection. All the events of scripture have culminated to this point...it is finished. QuoteLater, knowing that everything had now been finished, and so that Scripture would be fulfilled, Jesus said, “I am thirsty.” A jar of wine vinegar was there, so they soaked a sponge in it, put the sponge on a stalk of the hyssop plant, and lifted it to Jesus’ lips. When he had received the drink, Jesus said, “It is finished.” With that, he bowed his head and gave up his spirit. The men who witnessed these things didn't have video cameras but they wrote down what they saw...either you believe or you don't. QuoteJesus said to him, “Have you believed because you have seen me? Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.” but don't worry...you people will get your proof one day: Quote“So if anyone tells you, ‘There he is, out in the wilderness,’ do not go out; or, ‘Here he is, in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it. For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man.Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #163 January 13, 2012 QuoteI don't understand why you think deitys are exempt from needing any evidence to support their existence. Your logic does not make sense.Quote You don't understand it because you equate deities with physical form. Simple as that. QuoteIt comes off your earlier stance that God does not exist because you can't prove that HE does. QuoteNo it didn't come off of that stance. I tried to clarify it. OK, if you say so QuoteYou don't seem to be able to understand what I wrote. It's not reasonable to believe any deity exists due to a lack of evidence. Oh, I understand what you wrote. What I don't agree with is your need to think any deity must manifest in physical form and be scientifically proven. Bunk.My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites popsjumper 2 #164 January 13, 2012 Quote If he existed and wanted to prove it, why not perform some of the miracles he performed in the bible, .... Who knows? Ask Him.My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites popsjumper 2 #165 January 13, 2012 Quote "Absence of evidence of presence does not give rise to a presumption of absence." -Popsjumper I'm here...you just can't see me because I'm hiding my face behind this keyboard. As if I weren't already questioning your intelligence. So...you lack a sense of humor, too, eh? Or is it just some teen-age need to "get even"? My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites popsjumper 2 #166 January 13, 2012 Once again *WHOOSH*My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,146 #167 January 13, 2012 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteI think it's pretty reasonable to say that he believed they existed before they could be proven to exist. So why is HE right for believing and Christians wrong? There is no evidence to support Christians claim of their god existing. Their argument is weak and of poor logic. There was no evidence to support Pauli's belief in the neutrino existing at that point, either. WRONG. After you've taken the statistics class you so badly need, perhaps you should take some physics. After you've taken the reading comprehension class you so badly need, perhaps you can read the entire thread, then you would have know that the timeframe being discussed was BEFORE the beta decay theory. Learn some science history before spouting off about stuff you clearly know absolutely nothing about.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,146 #168 January 13, 2012 QuoteQuoteEmotions and feelings should have no place in determining whether something exists or not. With out evidence of any diety the only reasonable conclustion is that there are none. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. Funny, that, coming from the person who more than anyone else in this forum demands proof.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,146 #169 January 13, 2012 QuoteQuoteI don't understand why you think deitys are exempt from needing any evidence to support their existence. Your logic does not make sense.Quote You don't understand it because you equate deities with physical form. Simple as that. QuoteIt comes off your earlier stance that God does not exist because you can't prove that HE does. QuoteNo it didn't come off of that stance. I tried to clarify it. OK, if you say so QuoteYou don't seem to be able to understand what I wrote. It's not reasonable to believe any deity exists due to a lack of evidence. Oh, I understand what you wrote. What I don't agree with is your need to think any deity must manifest in physical form and be scientifically proven. Bunk. Which deity would that be? Plenty to choose from. I like Odin myself, with the FSM coming in 2nd.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Marinus 0 #170 January 13, 2012 QuoteHe already performed the ultimate miracle through his death and ressurection. All the events of scripture have culminated to this point...it is finished. The miracles went on after Jesus made his reversed skydive. For example: Jesus had no problem with appearing to Christophobe Paul with the intention to convert him. And if you don't see that as a miracle, Paul was magically healed of his blindness a couple of days (weeks?) later. Plus: people claim that miracles (like faith healings) continue to this day. Well, always to the people that don't need those miracles because they already believe of course. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites maadmax 0 #171 January 13, 2012 QuoteIf God is truly as understanding and forgiving as many that believe in him like to portray, if he does exist, he would be able to understand and forgive those who don't believe for wanting to follow religion with logic, a measure in which one tends to gauge all other aspects of life. This whole absence of evidence thing evidence of absence thing shouldn't matter. If he existed and wanted to prove it, why not perform some of the miracles he performed in the bible, you know - ones that everyone can see and record on video. Things like talking spontaniously combusting bushes etc. Why perform blatant miracles for a short period, then once the bible is written and published just stop with the blatant miracles and rely on people to believe a 'broken telephone' and outdated form of facts. I think it's time to have a new child and to give us an updated bible, one where people can't say "Well the bible doesn't mean it that way now, that's because of how things were back then". You all keep seeking the irrelevant while ignoring the obvious. The proof you seek will never be produced. The proof of changed lives and unlocked potential is all around you. Faith is just the bridge into a world of limitless real psychological possibilities. ... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Coreece 190 #172 January 13, 2012 QuoteJesus had no problem with appearing to Christophobe Paul with the intention to convert him. And if you don't see that as a miracle, Paul was magically healed of his blindness a couple of days (weeks?) later. Plus: people claim that miracles (like faith healings) continue to this day. Well, always to the people that don't need those miracles because they already believe of course. I see the purpose of these types of miracles to strengthen the personal faith of the people directly involved, not for the conversion of the masses. I don't think these miracles, if that's what they are will do anything to convince non-believers. Would witnessing a faith healing really make you a believer. Do virgin mary grilled cheese sandwiches fill you with the holy spirit?Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jclalor 12 #173 January 13, 2012 I think your argument for Christianity is more convincing without your gun pointed at us. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Coreece 190 #174 January 13, 2012 Quote I think your argument for Christianity is more convincing without your gun pointed at us. You're mistaken...I was pointing it at the evil one standing over your shoulder. You gotta admit though...it was a pretty bad ass picture.It served it's purpose...I'm over it.Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites StreetScooby 5 #175 January 13, 2012 Quote I think your argument for Christianity is more convincing without your gun pointed at us. Not that there is anything wrong with heavily armed Christians... We are all engines of karma Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 Next Page 7 of 9 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. 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popsjumper 2 #164 January 13, 2012 Quote If he existed and wanted to prove it, why not perform some of the miracles he performed in the bible, .... Who knows? Ask Him.My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #165 January 13, 2012 Quote "Absence of evidence of presence does not give rise to a presumption of absence." -Popsjumper I'm here...you just can't see me because I'm hiding my face behind this keyboard. As if I weren't already questioning your intelligence. So...you lack a sense of humor, too, eh? Or is it just some teen-age need to "get even"? My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #166 January 13, 2012 Once again *WHOOSH*My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,146 #167 January 13, 2012 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteI think it's pretty reasonable to say that he believed they existed before they could be proven to exist. So why is HE right for believing and Christians wrong? There is no evidence to support Christians claim of their god existing. Their argument is weak and of poor logic. There was no evidence to support Pauli's belief in the neutrino existing at that point, either. WRONG. After you've taken the statistics class you so badly need, perhaps you should take some physics. After you've taken the reading comprehension class you so badly need, perhaps you can read the entire thread, then you would have know that the timeframe being discussed was BEFORE the beta decay theory. Learn some science history before spouting off about stuff you clearly know absolutely nothing about.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,146 #168 January 13, 2012 QuoteQuoteEmotions and feelings should have no place in determining whether something exists or not. With out evidence of any diety the only reasonable conclustion is that there are none. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. Funny, that, coming from the person who more than anyone else in this forum demands proof.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,146 #169 January 13, 2012 QuoteQuoteI don't understand why you think deitys are exempt from needing any evidence to support their existence. Your logic does not make sense.Quote You don't understand it because you equate deities with physical form. Simple as that. QuoteIt comes off your earlier stance that God does not exist because you can't prove that HE does. QuoteNo it didn't come off of that stance. I tried to clarify it. OK, if you say so QuoteYou don't seem to be able to understand what I wrote. It's not reasonable to believe any deity exists due to a lack of evidence. Oh, I understand what you wrote. What I don't agree with is your need to think any deity must manifest in physical form and be scientifically proven. Bunk. Which deity would that be? Plenty to choose from. I like Odin myself, with the FSM coming in 2nd.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Marinus 0 #170 January 13, 2012 QuoteHe already performed the ultimate miracle through his death and ressurection. All the events of scripture have culminated to this point...it is finished. The miracles went on after Jesus made his reversed skydive. For example: Jesus had no problem with appearing to Christophobe Paul with the intention to convert him. And if you don't see that as a miracle, Paul was magically healed of his blindness a couple of days (weeks?) later. Plus: people claim that miracles (like faith healings) continue to this day. Well, always to the people that don't need those miracles because they already believe of course. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites maadmax 0 #171 January 13, 2012 QuoteIf God is truly as understanding and forgiving as many that believe in him like to portray, if he does exist, he would be able to understand and forgive those who don't believe for wanting to follow religion with logic, a measure in which one tends to gauge all other aspects of life. This whole absence of evidence thing evidence of absence thing shouldn't matter. If he existed and wanted to prove it, why not perform some of the miracles he performed in the bible, you know - ones that everyone can see and record on video. Things like talking spontaniously combusting bushes etc. Why perform blatant miracles for a short period, then once the bible is written and published just stop with the blatant miracles and rely on people to believe a 'broken telephone' and outdated form of facts. I think it's time to have a new child and to give us an updated bible, one where people can't say "Well the bible doesn't mean it that way now, that's because of how things were back then". You all keep seeking the irrelevant while ignoring the obvious. The proof you seek will never be produced. The proof of changed lives and unlocked potential is all around you. Faith is just the bridge into a world of limitless real psychological possibilities. ... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Coreece 190 #172 January 13, 2012 QuoteJesus had no problem with appearing to Christophobe Paul with the intention to convert him. And if you don't see that as a miracle, Paul was magically healed of his blindness a couple of days (weeks?) later. Plus: people claim that miracles (like faith healings) continue to this day. Well, always to the people that don't need those miracles because they already believe of course. I see the purpose of these types of miracles to strengthen the personal faith of the people directly involved, not for the conversion of the masses. I don't think these miracles, if that's what they are will do anything to convince non-believers. Would witnessing a faith healing really make you a believer. Do virgin mary grilled cheese sandwiches fill you with the holy spirit?Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jclalor 12 #173 January 13, 2012 I think your argument for Christianity is more convincing without your gun pointed at us. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Coreece 190 #174 January 13, 2012 Quote I think your argument for Christianity is more convincing without your gun pointed at us. You're mistaken...I was pointing it at the evil one standing over your shoulder. You gotta admit though...it was a pretty bad ass picture.It served it's purpose...I'm over it.Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites StreetScooby 5 #175 January 13, 2012 Quote I think your argument for Christianity is more convincing without your gun pointed at us. Not that there is anything wrong with heavily armed Christians... We are all engines of karma Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 Next Page 7 of 9 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0 Go To Topic Listing
Marinus 0 #170 January 13, 2012 QuoteHe already performed the ultimate miracle through his death and ressurection. All the events of scripture have culminated to this point...it is finished. The miracles went on after Jesus made his reversed skydive. For example: Jesus had no problem with appearing to Christophobe Paul with the intention to convert him. And if you don't see that as a miracle, Paul was magically healed of his blindness a couple of days (weeks?) later. Plus: people claim that miracles (like faith healings) continue to this day. Well, always to the people that don't need those miracles because they already believe of course. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
maadmax 0 #171 January 13, 2012 QuoteIf God is truly as understanding and forgiving as many that believe in him like to portray, if he does exist, he would be able to understand and forgive those who don't believe for wanting to follow religion with logic, a measure in which one tends to gauge all other aspects of life. This whole absence of evidence thing evidence of absence thing shouldn't matter. If he existed and wanted to prove it, why not perform some of the miracles he performed in the bible, you know - ones that everyone can see and record on video. Things like talking spontaniously combusting bushes etc. Why perform blatant miracles for a short period, then once the bible is written and published just stop with the blatant miracles and rely on people to believe a 'broken telephone' and outdated form of facts. I think it's time to have a new child and to give us an updated bible, one where people can't say "Well the bible doesn't mean it that way now, that's because of how things were back then". You all keep seeking the irrelevant while ignoring the obvious. The proof you seek will never be produced. The proof of changed lives and unlocked potential is all around you. Faith is just the bridge into a world of limitless real psychological possibilities. ... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coreece 190 #172 January 13, 2012 QuoteJesus had no problem with appearing to Christophobe Paul with the intention to convert him. And if you don't see that as a miracle, Paul was magically healed of his blindness a couple of days (weeks?) later. Plus: people claim that miracles (like faith healings) continue to this day. Well, always to the people that don't need those miracles because they already believe of course. I see the purpose of these types of miracles to strengthen the personal faith of the people directly involved, not for the conversion of the masses. I don't think these miracles, if that's what they are will do anything to convince non-believers. Would witnessing a faith healing really make you a believer. Do virgin mary grilled cheese sandwiches fill you with the holy spirit?Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jclalor 12 #173 January 13, 2012 I think your argument for Christianity is more convincing without your gun pointed at us. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coreece 190 #174 January 13, 2012 Quote I think your argument for Christianity is more convincing without your gun pointed at us. You're mistaken...I was pointing it at the evil one standing over your shoulder. You gotta admit though...it was a pretty bad ass picture.It served it's purpose...I'm over it.Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
StreetScooby 5 #175 January 13, 2012 Quote I think your argument for Christianity is more convincing without your gun pointed at us. Not that there is anything wrong with heavily armed Christians... We are all engines of karma Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
