Concealed Carry Handgun?

[steve1 5]

A bat might kill you just as dead...but I'd pick a firearm for self defense. It could be a better tool in most case scenarios.

Is this a trick question....I haven't been reading the other thread?

[SkyDekker 1,465]

Nope, not a trick question at all. I happen to agree with you.

JR, Gravitymaster, DaVinci, rushmc and the like will now think yuo are a rabid anti-gunner with irrational fears though.

Hope you and your family stay safe.

[airtwardo 7]

Quote

Nope, not a trick question at all. I happen to agree with you.

JR, Gravitymaster, DaVinci, rushmc and the like will now think yuo are a rabid anti-gunner with irrational fears though.

Hope you and your family stay safe.

Who on deck...

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[JohnRich 4]

Quote

JR, Gravitymaster, DaVinci, rushmc and the like will now think yuo are a rabid anti-gunner with irrational fears though.

Do NOT put words in my mouth that are untrue.

Not only do you not respect the purpose of this thread, but you also disrespect all those people you named above for whom you are trying to interject thoughts for them that are not true. And in the process of doing all this, all you are accomplishing is to diminish your own reputation. My advice to you: Stop digging your hole, and act with honor and integrity.

[mnealtx 0]

Quote

Quote

Quote

My youngest daughter took her snub nosed 38 and shot at a target about six yards away. Not only were the groups big, but they were definitely grouping to the left.

Right handed shooter? And the grouping has nothing to do with the sights.

DaVinci,
How can you make such a grand statement as this. Surely you must know that there is more to shooting than just trigger control. Of course trigger control is important, but it is not the only factor afftecting accuracy. I'd like to know how you can be so certain that we are either pulling the gun to the left or slapping the trigger....Please explain!

Assuming no other issues, sight misalignment would result in a *small* misplaced group.

A large group is more attributable to ammunition issues (pistol just doesn't group well with that load), mechanical issues with the gun such as lockup (not applicable to the revolver) and trigger issues.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[popsjumper 2]

Quote

A large group is more attributable to ammunition issues (pistol just doesn't group well with that load), mechanical issues with the gun such as lockup (not applicable to the revolver) and trigger issues.

Maybe that explains why the drugstore owner couldn't hit the bozo from, what was it...7ft? 10ft?

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[mnealtx 0]

Quote

Quote

A large group is more attributable to ammunition issues (pistol just doesn't group well with that load), mechanical issues with the gun such as lockup (not applicable to the revolver) and trigger issues.

Maybe that explains why the drugstore owner couldn't hit the bozo from, what was it...7ft? 10ft?

Trigger control issues could definitely play into that, as well as adrenaline dump and target focus vs precisely aimed fire - it's an entirely natural reaction to visually lock onto the threat instead of the sights and it takes a lot of dedicated training to overcome that. I know of trainers that state that your group sizes will easily double in that sort of situation - makes it even more important to be able to keep your shots in a tight group in practice, eh?

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[Coreece 190]

Quote

I'd pick a firearm for self defense. It could be a better tool in most case scenarios.

Yes, absolutely...this tends to be the common/reasonable choice for those who'd rather not play silly games like rock-paper-scissors with their life.

Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are...

[Coreece 190]

Quote

This thread is about which tool is effective for a specific purpose.

Your problem is that you apparently are having trouble distinguishing the difference between the specific purpose of going out and killing a bunch of random people and the purpose of defending yourself.

There are many tools one can use to kill en masse, such as a car or 767....the sky's the limit.

As for self defense...It's rather difficult to conceal carry a car.

Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are...

[wolfriverjoe 1,523]

Quote

So, the question is, what is considered acceptable accuracy? I've shot pistols for fifty or more years. Long enough to know there is a big difference in pistols. If all gun fights were at ten feet, maybe it wouldn't matter...

...My daughters both have snub nosed 38 revolvers. Actually my youngest daughter has two 38 revolvers. One is a full sized pistol with about a four inch barrel.

I was very impressed with my older daughters snubby. It was much more accurate than I expected.

My youngest daughter took her snub nosed 38 and shot at a target about six yards away. Not only were the groups big, but they were definitely grouping to the left. It has fixed sights, and there is no way to adjust them. My daughter knew immediately, that something was wrong. She'd shot her full sized pistol enough to know this was not even close to what her bigger pistol would shoot...

...At any rate, I appreciate all the input on this. I'm anxious to buy another pistol or two....

Acceptable accuracy is being able to hit the "vital area" on a target. The "average range" of the "average gunfight" (FBI stats) is 7 yards.
With some exceptions, most pistols are capable of that kind of accuracy.
The real variable is the shooter.

It sounds like your daughter is able to shoot well enough to realize that there is something wrong with the one snubby. If she can shoot her other pistol well, then I'd start looking at the gun itself. It could be a lockup issue, it could be an ammunition issue, it could be a lot of things.
Have a gunsmith check it over, try a variety of different ammo, see if any of that helps.

And there's a variety of choices out there for pistols. That's half the fun! I have my personal preferences (SA autos), but I also have a variety of others that fit different needs.

Admittedly, I have a few that the "Need" was that I didn't have one of those and so I needed to get it.

You have to find what you like (and what your wife likes) and go from there. I think I've already said to make sure that you let your wife's needs and likes dictate her choice. Don't make your choices dictate her choices for her.

Also, you might think about a 22 pistol. There are a lot out there. If you can find one that mimics your (or her) carry pistol, great. There are also conversion kits out there to let you shoot 22s (usually in an auto, the slide, barrel and springs get replaced by the conversion). Even if you don't duplicate the carry pistol, having a 22 is helpful. It's a lot cheaper to shoot, so you can shoot it a lot with out hurting your wallet. It's quieter and far less recoil so you can shoot it a lot without hurting your ears or wrist.

And even a different model of 22 will allow you to practice the fundamentals (sight picture, grip, stance, trigger pull ect). All of which will make you a better shot with your carry gun.
I probably shoot my 22 3 or 4 times as much as all my other pistols put together.

'Twardo made a good point about currency. The only way to get good and stay good is to shoot. The more the better.
I see a lot of shooters at my local range. The ones who come down and shoot on a regular basis are the ones who shoot the best. Period.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[DaVinci 0]

Quote

DaVinci,
How can you make such a grand statement as this. Surely you must know that there is more to shooting than just trigger control. Of course trigger control is important, but it is not the only factor afftecting accuracy. I'd like to know how you can be so certain that we are either pulling the gun to the left or slapping the trigger....Please explain!

First off, I asked if it was a right handed shooter. The reason is simple, most right handed shooters pull the POI to the left and down. This is due to trigger manipulation in 99% of the cases where it is due to shooter error.

Secondly, the statement I did make was "The grouping has nothing to do with sights"... the caveat is when the sights are lose. Grouping is a factor of manipulation, barrel tolerances and length, ammunition selection... Etc. Sights have almost nothing to do with grouping since if you have a good steady SAME sight picture and a good weapons manipulation the POI may not be where you aimed, but the grouping should be consistent (allowing for a non worn out barrel, decent ammunition, steady sight picture and manipulation).

How can I be so sure? 99% of the time when a guns "sights are off" it is due to ignoring the basics of marksmanship.

http://www.pskm.be/Pistol_Shot_Analysis.pdf

[steve1 5]

Wolfriverjoe,
I'm down to only one 22 pistol. I had another High Standard auto, that I gave to me oldest daughter. Now that was a good shooting pistol with a great trigger! I've given a lot of guns to my two daughters (including four pistols). It's good that the next generation have a gun that once belonged to old gramps.

The one 22 pistol that I still have is a Taurus nine shot revolver. It shoots great. The trigger isn't bad either. They definitely are cheaper to shoot than a bigger pistol.

[SkyDekker 1,465]

Quote

Do NOT put words in my mouth that are untrue.

Funny coming from the guy who labels everybody who doesn't agree with him a gun-o-phobe....

Quote

Not only do you not respect the purpose of this thread,

Get a grip...it is Speakers Corner.

[JohnRich 4]

Quote

Quote

Do NOT put words in my mouth that are untrue.

Funny coming from the guy who labels everybody who doesn't agree with him a gun-o-phobe...

Quote

Not only do you not respect the purpose of this thread,

Get a grip...it is Speakers Corner.

The people I label "gun-o-phobe", are indeed afraid of guns, so it's not putting words in their mouth that are untrue. It simply says that they are afraid of guns, just as calling someone a snake-o-phobe would mean that they are afraid of snakes. That's quite different from what you did, whereby you made an interpretation about what a third party said, and then used that to conclude something about how I think. That's quite removed from an actual direct and logical inference.

Just because it's Speaker's Corner doesn't mean it's okay to treat people with disrespect. Hijacking someone else's thread for your own political purposes is frowned upon. You already had a thread where you were able to speak your mind on that topic, and you didn't need to hijack someone else's.

But hey, these types of tactics are not unusual for gun-o-phobes, because they have no facts or logic upon which they can depend to buttress their position. So when you use them, it's just more evidence that you're shooting blanks, and really have nothing valid to say. And in the process, you reveal your own weak character by stooping to such cheap tactics.

Have a nice day.

[mnealtx 0]

Quote

Wolfriverjoe,
I'm down to only one 22 pistol. I had another High Standard auto, that I gave to me oldest daughter. Now that was a good shooting pistol with a great trigger! I've given a lot of guns to my two daughters (including four pistols). It's good that the next generation have a gun that once belonged to old gramps.

The one 22 pistol that I still have is a Taurus nine shot revolver. It shoots great. The trigger isn't bad either. They definitely are cheaper to shoot than a bigger pistol.

High Standards are sweet little guns. The Ruger Mark series of semiauto 22s are pretty nice, too. Great for practicing sight alignment and trigger control on the cheap.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[christelsabine 1]

Quote

....
The people I label "gun-o-phobe", are indeed afraid of guns, so it's not putting words in their mouth that are untrue. It simply says that they are afraid of guns, just as calling someone a snake-o-phobe would mean that they are afraid of snakes. That's quite different from what you did, whereby you made an interpretation about what a third party said, and then used that to conclude something about how I think. That's quite removed from an actual direct and logical inference.

Just because it's Speaker's Corner doesn't mean it's okay to treat people with disrespect. Hijacking someone else's thread for your own political purposes is frowned upon. You already had a thread where you were able to speak your mind on that topic, and you didn't need to hijack someone else's.

But hey, these types of tactics are not unusual for gun-o-phobes, because they have no facts or logic upon which they can depend to buttress their position. So when you use them, it's just more evidence that you're shooting blanks, and really have nothing valid to say. And in the process, you reveal your own weak character by stooping to such cheap tactics.
....

Thanks for that post, JR. Priceless.

I do remember you once called me (that idiotic) 'gun-o-phobe', even you knew I do own guns, love to hunt .... and enjoy a visit at my local shooting range from time to time. Never have been afraid of guns.

Quote

Just because it's Speaker's Corner doesn't mean it's okay to treat people with disrespect

Hahaha, and I do remember a mail you sent to me shortly after a SC discussion *Disrespect* is putting it mildly, red man

dudeist skydiver # 3105

[SkyDekker 1,465]

Quote

Hijacking someone else's thread for your own political purposes is frowned upon.

Yet you continue to reply and put words in my mouth, after I have specifically stated that it has nothing to do with politics.

Quote

doesn't mean it's okay to treat people with disrespect.

Quote

these types of tactics are not unusual for gun-o-phobes, because they have no facts or logic upon which they can depend to buttress their position.

You may want to find the definition for hypocrite.

[mnealtx 0]

Quote

Hahaha, and I do remember a mail you sent to me shortly after a SC discussion *Disrespect* is putting it mildly, red man

I remember several YEARS of you sniping at him...and disrespect *is* putting it mildly.

Methinks the lady doth protest overmuch.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[christelsabine 1]

Quote

Quote

Hahaha, and I do remember a mail you sent to me shortly after a SC discussion *Disrespect* is putting it mildly, red man

I remember several YEARS of you sniping at him...and disrespect *is* putting it mildly.

Methinks the lady doth protest overmuch.

Mike, methinks *immediately to weapons* still is your main job here.

After all those YEARS (before), I do remember other posts of you.

dudeist skydiver # 3105

[DaVinci 0]

read:

ELITISTS

Many of those in favor of oppressive firearms legislation are are best classed as elitists. Elitists frequently identify with a peer group based on wealth, power, rank, social status, occupation, education, ethnic group, etc. and perceive themselves and their peers as inherently superior to and more responsible than the "common people", thus more deserving of certain rights. Since elitists practically consider those outside their class or caste as members of another species, that most anti-elitist list of laws, the Bill of Rights is viewed by them as anathema. Naturally, the Second Amendment is their first target as it serves as the supporting structure for other nine amendments.

AUTHORITARIANS

Another type of individual who favors the restriction of private gun ownership is the authoritarian. Authoritarian personalities are characterized by their belief in unquestioning obedience to an authority figure or group and a disdain for individual freedom of action, expression, and judgement. Those with authoritarian personalities function well in symbiosis with elitists occupying positions of power. Because authoritarians repress their desires for autonomy they harbor a deep resentment toward free and independent thinkers. Of course authoritarians do not want firearms in the hands of the general population as this constitutes a major obstacle to fulfilling their pathological and obsessive desire to control people.

[rushmc 23]

Quote

read:

ELITISTS

Many of those in favor of oppressive firearms legislation are are best classed as elitists. Elitists frequently identify with a peer group based on wealth, power, rank, social status, occupation, education, ethnic group, etc. and perceive themselves and their peers as inherently superior to and more responsible than the "common people", thus more deserving of certain rights. Since elitists practically consider those outside their class or caste as members of another species, that most anti-elitist list of laws, the Bill of Rights is viewed by them as anathema. Naturally, the Second Amendment is their first target as it serves as the supporting structure for other nine amendments.

AUTHORITARIANS

Another type of individual who favors the restriction of private gun ownership is the authoritarian. Authoritarian personalities are characterized by their belief in unquestioning obedience to an authority figure or group and a disdain for individual freedom of action, expression, and judgement. Those with authoritarian personalities function well in symbiosis with elitists occupying positions of power. Because authoritarians repress their desires for autonomy they harbor a deep resentment toward free and independent thinkers. Of course authoritarians do not want firearms in the hands of the general population as this constitutes a major obstacle to fulfilling their pathological and obsessive desire to control people.

Mirrors do not work for either of those you refernce here

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[mnealtx 0]

Quote

Quote

Quote

Hahaha, and I do remember a mail you sent to me shortly after a SC discussion *Disrespect* is putting it mildly, red man

I remember several YEARS of you sniping at him...and disrespect *is* putting it mildly.

Methinks the lady doth protest overmuch.

Mike, methinks *immediately to weapons* still is your main job here.

That being yet *another* snipe, thanks for proving my point.

Quote

After all those YEARS (before), I do remember other posts of you.

Unfortunately, I *can't* remember a time when you haven't sniped at JR or at me on gun issues.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[airtwardo 7]

Unfortunately, I *can't* remember a time when you haven't sniped at JR or at me on gun issues.

a sniper?

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[rushmc 23]

Quote

Unfortunately, I *can't* remember a time when you haven't sniped at JR or at me on gun issues.

a sniper?

another nutter.......

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[christelsabine 1]

Quote

....
Unfortunately, I *can't* remember a time when you haven't sniped at JR or at me on gun issues.

Over here, we do call that *the ping-pong effect*

dudeist skydiver # 3105