Sensible Motorcycle Law

[jgoose71 0]

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>Do you realize that some of us ride motorcycles that are air cooled and must keep
>moving to prevent the bike from overheating?

Now that's an excellent excuse! "Officer, I couldn't stop, my bike would overheat. If you understood simple physics you'd understand why you can't give me that ticket."

I think, "But Officer, it's legal" is the best excuse of all.....

"There is an art, it says, or, rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss."
Life, the Universe, and Everything

[Andy9o8 2]

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All to true, but the big distinction is that driving on the shoulder is illegal and lane sharing is not.

But that skirts my point, which is simply: it's human nature for people to get pissed off at lane-splitting, resulting in road rage and other bad behavior; and therefore, there needs to be a diligent public education campaign to counteract this. Done right, the result will be enhanced safety for everyone.

[billvon 3,118]

>I think, "But Officer, it's legal" is the best excuse of all....

Agreed. I was just finding the "we have to keep moving or we'll overheat!" line funny.

You could use it for cars, too. "But officer I couldn't stop for that stop sign - I have a Porsche and it has an air cooled engine."

[AggieDave 6]

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>I think, "But Officer, it's legal" is the best excuse of all....

Agreed. I was just finding the "we have to keep moving or we'll overheat!" line funny.

You could use it for cars, too. "But officer I couldn't stop for that stop sign - I have a Porsche and it has an air cooled engine."

Or my extreme high performance custom built SuperBeetle.

With HD's, minus some guys running really old iron, it is straight bullshit.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[mnealtx 0]

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All to true, but the big distinction is that driving on the shoulder is illegal and lane sharing is not.

But that skirts my point, which is simply: it's human nature for people to get pissed off at lane-splitting, resulting in road rage and other bad behavior; and therefore, there needs to be a diligent public education campaign to counteract this. Done right, the result will be enhanced safety for everyone.

That's a good point, Andy - I honestly did not know that there were places where lane-splitting was legal.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[danornan 79]

I'm pretty sure that CA is the only state where it is legal.

In addition to the previously stated benefits of riding a motorcycle, another important one is that you either become very good at defensive driving or you don't survive very long.

It's a shame that some people feel that if you get ahead of them in their vehicle that you are somehow beating them in an imaginary race.

We are all better off helping as opposed to hindering and it can be the same on the road.

Dano

[dks13827 3]

Wendy what bike have you got ? What else did you ride ?


VTX 1800R ( second one ! ) Honda 750F, CB350, SL 350 All good !!! :)

[mnealtx 0]

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It's a shame that some people feel that if you get ahead of them in their vehicle that you are somehow beating them in an imaginary race.

Couldn't the view be valid in reverse regarding the lane-splitters?

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[Gravitymaster 0]

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>I think, "But Officer, it's legal" is the best excuse of all....

Agreed. I was just finding the "we have to keep moving or we'll overheat!" line funny.

You could use it for cars, too. "But officer I couldn't stop for that stop sign - I have a Porsche and it has an air cooled engine."

Or my extreme high performance custom built SuperBeetle.

With HD's, minus some guys running really old iron, it is straight bullshit.

I'd say your opinion is pretty much straight Bullshit.

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Judge Rules Harley Bikers May Proceed with Overheating and Burn Lawsuit Against Harley Davidson
by Motorcycle Cruiser Magazine on Sunday, August 7, 2011 at 5:00pm
- Valencia, CA (PRWEB) August 06, 2011
A Federal Court Judge has denied a Harley Davidson motion to dismiss Harley bikers' claims for fraudulent and unfair business practices, violations of Consumers Legal Remedies Act (CLRA), and unjust enrichment. A class action lawsuit may now go forward against Harley Davidson alleging certain Harley engines produce severe heat, causing burn injuries.

Last week, a federal judge ruled that a class action lawsuit against Harley Davidson could proceed, siding with four bikers who claim their Harley Davidson motorcycles were defectively designed because their engines ran so hot as to pose constant danger of being burned and were therefore not fit for their intended use.

The complaint alleges that since 1999, Twin Cam 88, 96, 103 and 110 cubic inch engines in Harley motorcycles produce severe, excessive heat causing clothing to catch on fire, burn injuries and the danger of burn injury to riders and passengers as well as overheating causing premature engine wear, and in models manufactured after 2006, transmission failure. Although Harley Davidson asked the Eastern District of California court to throw out the claims under state law, the U.S. District Judge sided with the bikers.

Greg Owen, a partner in the law firm representing the plaintiffs, believes the unsafe heat problem is due to Harley selling larger engines that cannot comply with the emission standards of many states, including California. 'The fix is pretty simple,' says Owen, "and Harley already has it – manufacture touring bikes with liquid cooled engines instead of air cooled engines."

Harley Davidson will now face Class Action Certification process at the end of the month.

So what do you think - do the bikers have a legitimate beef, or is this another case of 'nanny state' intervention?
This brings to mind the saying, "If you can't stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen..."

[billvon 3,118]

>With HD's, minus some guys running really old iron, it is straight bullshit.

Dang, so that wouldn't work with you. (Have to cross that one off the list.)

[danornan 79]

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It's a shame that some people feel that if you get ahead of them in their vehicle that you are somehow beating them in an imaginary race.

Couldn't the view be valid in reverse regarding the lane-splitters?

That's a good point and I didn't think of it that way! Maybe allowing the motorcycle to keep moving is like an extra traffic lane. As long as traffic is moving slowly and the motorcycle is moving safely, why would that be a problem?

Dano

[mnealtx 0]

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It's a shame that some people feel that if you get ahead of them in their vehicle that you are somehow beating them in an imaginary race.

Couldn't the view be valid in reverse regarding the lane-splitters?

That's a good point and I didn't think of it that way! Maybe allowing the motorcycle to keep moving is like an extra traffic lane. As long as traffic is moving slowly and the motorcycle is moving safely, why would that be a problem?

How about because it's *NOT* an extra traffic lane? Why *can't* the bikers wait their turn like everyone else?

For every person that says "I can fit my bike through there with no damage", there's 3 more that can't without clipping mirrors...yet they try it anyway.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[gher 0]

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For every person that says "I can fit my bike through there with no damage", there's 3 more that can't without clipping mirrors...yet they try it anyway.

Hence my anger, but since Donorcycle riders fancy themselves "special," I'm the asshole...

The fact remains that, on the laws of physics alone, the car will win, so it's not advisable to tempt fate no matter how good you fancy yourself on a bike...

[jgoose71 0]

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For every person that says "I can fit my bike through there with no damage", there's 3 more that can't without clipping mirrors...yet they try it anyway.

Hence my anger, but since Donorcycle riders fancy themselves "special," I'm the asshole...

The fact remains that, on the laws of physics alone, the car will win, so it's not advisable to tempt fate no matter how good you fancy yourself on a bike...

Here is one that will blow your mind.....

How about motorcycles continue to split traffic in the name of efficiency. The more vehicles you are able to move through an intersection in a given time decreases the congestion.....

Or safety? By splitting traffic the motorcyclist is doing something out of the ordinary garnering attention. This causes him to be seen. As long as the drivers in their "cages" don't actively try to chase them down, things will be better.

When a motorcyclist is hit by a car splitting traffic, the report automatically states him as being at fault. That's just the way it is. Kind of like when you hit someone form behind it's automatically your fault. You were not following with a large enough space to allow you to avoid any developing incident.

That being said, how many accidents were caused by car drivers playing dangerous games? I would say 95% This is just going off of personal experiences while "lane sharing" in San Diego. As stated above, I know you see me.....

"There is an art, it says, or, rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss."
Life, the Universe, and Everything

[AggieDave 6]

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>I think, "But Officer, it's legal" is the best excuse of all....

Agreed. I was just finding the "we have to keep moving or we'll overheat!" line funny.

You could use it for cars, too. "But officer I couldn't stop for that stop sign - I have a Porsche and it has an air cooled engine."

Or my extreme high performance custom built SuperBeetle.

With HD's, minus some guys running really old iron, it is straight bullshit.

I'd say your opinion is pretty much straight Bullshit.

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Judge Rules Harley Bikers May Proceed with Overheating and Burn Lawsuit Against Harley Davidson
by Motorcycle Cruiser Magazine on Sunday, August 7, 2011 at 5:00pm
- Valencia, CA (PRWEB) August 06, 2011
A Federal Court Judge has denied a Harley Davidson motion to dismiss Harley bikers' claims for fraudulent and unfair business practices, violations of Consumers Legal Remedies Act (CLRA), and unjust enrichment. A class action lawsuit may now go forward against Harley Davidson alleging certain Harley engines produce severe heat, causing burn injuries.

Last week, a federal judge ruled that a class action lawsuit against Harley Davidson could proceed, siding with four bikers who claim their Harley Davidson motorcycles were defectively designed because their engines ran so hot as to pose constant danger of being burned and were therefore not fit for their intended use.

The complaint alleges that since 1999, Twin Cam 88, 96, 103 and 110 cubic inch engines in Harley motorcycles produce severe, excessive heat causing clothing to catch on fire, burn injuries and the danger of burn injury to riders and passengers as well as overheating causing premature engine wear, and in models manufactured after 2006, transmission failure. Although Harley Davidson asked the Eastern District of California court to throw out the claims under state law, the U.S. District Judge sided with the bikers.

Greg Owen, a partner in the law firm representing the plaintiffs, believes the unsafe heat problem is due to Harley selling larger engines that cannot comply with the emission standards of many states, including California. 'The fix is pretty simple,' says Owen, "and Harley already has it – manufacture touring bikes with liquid cooled engines instead of air cooled engines."

Harley Davidson will now face Class Action Certification process at the end of the month.

So what do you think - do the bikers have a legitimate beef, or is this another case of 'nanny state' intervention?
This brings to mind the saying, "If you can't stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen..."

That is widely regarded in the motorcycle world as a fraudulent/frivolous lawsuit. *shrug* This is SC, so now it is your turn to question my mother's virtues or blame me for terrorism or something similar.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[AggieDave 6]

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>With HD's, minus some guys running really old iron, it is straight bullshit.

Dang, so that wouldn't work with you. (Have to cross that one off the list.)

Nope, not with me, not with just about every motor-cop I know. Especially the ones I know who ride HD. They call bullshit on that worn out excuse as well.

As someone who spends a significant amount of time in the saddle every week, in all weather, I have very little patience for bad riders and even less for arrogant riders who disregard others safety.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[kelpdiver 2]

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This bothers me less than Lane Splitting. These fuckers are begging me to open my door in their path and just submit the damage claim to their insurance company.

That would be a good learning experience for you. They'll deny the claim on sight as your policy does not cover damages incurred while committing attempted murder. It would stretch their belief, along with the highway patrol, that you opened your door on the freeway (when the fuck does anyone do that?) just as a biker comes along. And you'll be in trial facing a few years in jail, plus a civil suit that will easily be lost.

Outside of CA, lane splitting is illegal. Just like speeding or rolling stop signs. That's a couple hundred dollars fine. You can't justify bodily injury or death for the crime.

Of course in reality you're just another keyboard jockey, puffing your chest, angry that someone got through the traffic before you did. But the number of you that actually go forward and do something about it is pretty low. Most of those are chickenshits who do this passive aggressive game of drifting towards the line, furiously pretending to not see what they're doing. The biker laughs a little, goes the other way around you, and leaves you behind.

[Gravitymaster 0]

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>I think, "But Officer, it's legal" is the best excuse of all....

Agreed. I was just finding the "we have to keep moving or we'll overheat!" line funny.

You could use it for cars, too. "But officer I couldn't stop for that stop sign - I have a Porsche and it has an air cooled engine."

Or my extreme high performance custom built SuperBeetle.

With HD's, minus some guys running really old iron, it is straight bullshit.

I'd say your opinion is pretty much straight Bullshit.

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Judge Rules Harley Bikers May Proceed with Overheating and Burn Lawsuit Against Harley Davidson
by Motorcycle Cruiser Magazine on Sunday, August 7, 2011 at 5:00pm
- Valencia, CA (PRWEB) August 06, 2011
A Federal Court Judge has denied a Harley Davidson motion to dismiss Harley bikers' claims for fraudulent and unfair business practices, violations of Consumers Legal Remedies Act (CLRA), and unjust enrichment. A class action lawsuit may now go forward against Harley Davidson alleging certain Harley engines produce severe heat, causing burn injuries.

Last week, a federal judge ruled that a class action lawsuit against Harley Davidson could proceed, siding with four bikers who claim their Harley Davidson motorcycles were defectively designed because their engines ran so hot as to pose constant danger of being burned and were therefore not fit for their intended use.

The complaint alleges that since 1999, Twin Cam 88, 96, 103 and 110 cubic inch engines in Harley motorcycles produce severe, excessive heat causing clothing to catch on fire, burn injuries and the danger of burn injury to riders and passengers as well as overheating causing premature engine wear, and in models manufactured after 2006, transmission failure. Although Harley Davidson asked the Eastern District of California court to throw out the claims under state law, the U.S. District Judge sided with the bikers.

Greg Owen, a partner in the law firm representing the plaintiffs, believes the unsafe heat problem is due to Harley selling larger engines that cannot comply with the emission standards of many states, including California. 'The fix is pretty simple,' says Owen, "and Harley already has it – manufacture touring bikes with liquid cooled engines instead of air cooled engines."

Harley Davidson will now face Class Action Certification process at the end of the month.

So what do you think - do the bikers have a legitimate beef, or is this another case of 'nanny state' intervention?
This brings to mind the saying, "If you can't stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen..."

That is widely regarded in the motorcycle world as a fraudulent/frivolous lawsuit. *shrug* This is SC, so now it is your turn to question my mother's virtues or blame me for terrorism or something similar.

Right, so fraudulent/frivolous that a Federal Judge just allowed it to go forward. But, this is SC and you have your right to your opinion no matter how wrong it is. Don't know why you think your mother has something to do with this unless she rides a HD.

Rear end collisions in California are also 30% lower since lane splitting is allowed as compared to other States.

[kelpdiver 2]

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Nope, not with me, not with just about every motor-cop I know. Especially the ones I know who ride HD. They call bullshit on that worn out excuse as well.

As someone who spends a significant amount of time in the saddle every week, in all weather, I have very little patience for bad riders and even less for arrogant riders who disregard others safety.

How exactly are they disregarding others' safety? We both know that in the great majority of collisions, the rider comes off far worse. It's only when we get to reckless splitting that this shifts to equal footing.

It's legal in California because the CHiPs want it to be. It's perfectly safe for them and hundreds of thousands of civilians to do. Its origins may have more to do with our longer history of terrible traffic than anything else, including the concerns of engine overheating.

[AggieDave 6]

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Nope, not with me, not with just about every motor-cop I know. Especially the ones I know who ride HD. They call bullshit on that worn out excuse as well.

As someone who spends a significant amount of time in the saddle every week, in all weather, I have very little patience for bad riders and even less for arrogant riders who disregard others safety.

How exactly are they disregarding others' safety? We both know that in the great majority of collisions, the rider comes off far worse. It's only when we get to reckless splitting that this shifts to equal footing.

It's legal in California because the CHiPs want it to be. It's perfectly safe for them and hundreds of thousands of civilians to do. Its origins may have more to do with our longer history of terrible traffic than anything else, including the concerns of engine overheating.

It is far from perfectly safe. There are "safer" ways to split lanes, but to say it is perfectly safe is much over simplified.

Motorcyclists typically come out on the short end of the stick in an accident, but there are incidences in which the rider/bike does create injuries or death. In my professional experience, I've seen a lot of motorcyclists killed. I've also seen other injured by the rider's actions. In one case there is a women who had to be medically sedated due to severe PTSD issues after an accident. An accident in which the motorcyclist was 100% at fault and was quite violently killed as a results of his actions. Last I heard that women had not been able to come to grasps with those events, her marriage has dissolved and she does not have custody of her two girls due to all of this.

Anyways, when you look around at the US and see that 49 of the 50 states say no to lane splitting, then you have to wonder why. Maybe the other 49 states are uptight? All of those states have traffic problems...well, lets say that a lot of them do. I'm sure that lane splitting in parts of Alaska involves herds of moose or bears or something.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[AggieDave 6]

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That is widely regarded in the motorcycle world as a fraudulent/frivolous lawsuit. *shrug* This is SC, so now it is your turn to question my mother's virtues or blame me for terrorism or something similar.

Right, so fraudulent/frivolous that a Federal Judge just allowed it to go forward. But, this is SC and you have your right to your opinion no matter how wrong it is. Don't know why you think your mother has something to do with this unless she rides a HD.

Rear end collisions in California are also 30% lower since lane splitting is allowed as compared to other States.

Experience and history has shown us that just because a lawsuit is allowed to proceed, doesn't mean that it isn't a complete farce.

The rest was a joke about the state of the typical thread progression in SC. It has become exceptionally vicious over the last few years (not that you would stoop to such posts, just an overall comment in jest).

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[Gravitymaster 0]

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Nope, not with me, not with just about every motor-cop I know. Especially the ones I know who ride HD. They call bullshit on that worn out excuse as well.

As someone who spends a significant amount of time in the saddle every week, in all weather, I have very little patience for bad riders and even less for arrogant riders who disregard others safety.

How exactly are they disregarding others' safety? We both know that in the great majority of collisions, the rider comes off far worse. It's only when we get to reckless splitting that this shifts to equal footing.

It's legal in California because the CHiPs want it to be. It's perfectly safe for them and hundreds of thousands of civilians to do. Its origins may have more to do with our longer history of terrible traffic than anything else, including the concerns of engine overheating.

Although I agree mostly, I wouldn't call lane splitting "perfectly safe". OTOH it probably is safer than risking being rear ended by an automobile whose driver wasn't paying attention.

[Andy9o8 2]

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That is widely regarded in the motorcycle world as a fraudulent/frivolous lawsuit.

Of course it is regarded as such by the motorcycling world. It's logical that that particular sub-group would not have an objective point of view on the matter; it's just human nature.

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Experience and history has shown us that just because a lawsuit is allowed to proceed, doesn't mean that it isn't a complete farce.

Actually, from my experience, plus my understanding of legal history, I will say that most federal judges have pretty high standards when it comes to prima facie evidence, and a pretty low tolerance for bullshit. Terms like "frivolous" and "farce", while popular, are pretty extreme. Not every case which ultimately results in a defense verdict is frivolous or a farce. In front of a jury, this case might prevail, or it might lose; but if it really was "frivolous" or "a complete farce", it's a pretty safe bet that it would already be outta there.

[wmw999 2,588]

Currently a Honda 750 Shadow; before that I had a Harley Low Rider for about 10 years, and a Sportster before that (but not for that long -- it never felt right).

And, if you really want to see some lane-splitting, I'm currently in Sao Paulo, Brazil, the lane-splitting capital of the world, I believe. Even in Rio they comment on how crazy it is.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[winsor 236]

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>I think, "But Officer, it's legal" is the best excuse of all....

Agreed. I was just finding the "we have to keep moving or we'll overheat!" line funny.

You could use it for cars, too. "But officer I couldn't stop for that stop sign - I have a Porsche and it has an air cooled engine."

Or my extreme high performance custom built SuperBeetle.

With HD's, minus some guys running really old iron, it is straight bullshit.

Does my Shovelhead count?