shah269 0 #1 November 28, 2011 HARP is now at 150% this will do a very good job in pumping some much needed capital back into the markets. Keep your fingers crossed boys and girls but we may be on our way back!Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay. The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 2 #2 November 28, 2011 I like to top it off with Guinness to make a blank & tan. Mmmm. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shah269 0 #3 November 28, 2011 QuoteI like to top it off with Guinness to make a blank & tan. Mmmm. So that's HARP at @ 50%Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay. The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shah269 0 #4 November 28, 2011 So we all agree that in theory this is a good thing for the econmy? Hu...nice! Well it's not going to save Obama....but it's nice for the rest of us.Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay. The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #5 November 28, 2011 QuoteSo we all agree that in theory this is a good thing for the econmy? no, not really. More federal debt, more reasons for those with money to be wary of lending it out. Might have short term benefits. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shah269 0 #6 November 28, 2011 QuoteQuoteSo we all agree that in theory this is a good thing for the econmy? no, not really. More federal debt, more reasons for those with money to be wary of lending it out. Might have short term benefits. Ah it's more of our own debt, we are in effect giving ourselves money today instead of money tomorrow. I like it. What ever puts more capital in the hands of the middle class I'm all for it.Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay. The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,088 #7 November 28, 2011 >What ever puts more capital in the hands of the middle class I'm all for it. Just force everyone to get a second mortgage. Mission accomplished. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shah269 0 #8 November 28, 2011 Quote>What ever puts more capital in the hands of the middle class I'm all for it. Just force everyone to get a second mortgage. Mission accomplished. If they want sure why not. A great time to do so. Very cheap property and very low rates. If you can do it a great time to invest in property. Which again would be good for the country for it would eat up all the empty homes. I'm going for it, HARP 150%, I can put 0 down and free up a good $200 a month. Which I can use to pay down my student loan debt of $10k. See it's all good. Now argue that one.Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay. The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #9 November 28, 2011 Quote I like it. What ever puts more capital in my hands I'm all for it. Edited for accuracy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DrewEckhardt 0 #10 November 29, 2011 QuoteSo we all agree that in theory this is a good thing for the econmy? No. It's a good thing for powerful corporatist interests. Assuming a hypothetical 1% tax rate, 30 year amortization, and ignoring insurance/maintenance costs/mortgage deduction tax implications: Some one who walks away from a $2048 tax and mortgage payment at 6% on $300K (tax assessors don't like to drop values so they can be paying taxes for a place worth $300K when it's worth $200K) and rents the place next door for $1000 can spend more on consumer goods than if they refinance their over-sized mortgage at 4% for a $1682 payment. They can spend _a lot_ more on consumer goods if they stop making mortgage payments entirely until the bank gets around to kicking them out in a year or two. A few years down the road when their credit score will be back they might buy again. Using current dollars and simplifying the arithmetic a little: Assuming a negligible down-payment program fostered by the government (the Realtors' PAC is the biggest and not going to be quiet about doing away with things like FHA loans with 3% down) they might get a 5% mortgage on half the amount for a $930 payment so they keep spending a lot more than if they refinanced. They'd still be spending a lot more with a $1240 payment if the price didn't drop beyond the $200K current dollar price tag (rising above that is unlikely because housing doesn't appreciate faster than inflation in the long run) which made them eligible for HARP. If they did the "smart" thing and put the $682 delta between refinanced mortgage and rent into accounts with a zero real rate of return (I get 2.25% on the first $50K at my credit union so that may not be a fantasy) for four years they'd have the $30,000 needed for an 80% LTV ratio at $150K and have a $770/month payment on a $150K property and after five years they could do the same on a $200K property for a $1025 payment which they might refinance at 4% with fully recovered credit for a $930 payment ($1078 with 3% inflation) which the $1682 "deal" exceeds by over 55% including inflation. QuoteWell it's not going to save Obama....but it's nice for the rest of us. Nope. It's nice for people who bought at inflated prices before mid-2009 (who are under-water and eligible for a low-rate refinance) and people looking to move or down-size (because it's propping prices up). It's nice for the banks, bond holders, and mortgage insurers. It's nice for cities and counties collecting property taxes. It's not nice for people who don't currently own because it's propping up both purchase prices (keeping underwater inventory off the market instead of allowing more defaults which would produce more downward pressure) and rent (everyone not buying has to live somewhere making it a landlords' market). It's especially not nice for young people who are more likely to be un-employed, under-employed, and/or paid less than during more positive economic times and their parents who have their sprouts living with them or are making up the delta between their children's salaries and the cost of living. It's slightly not nice for people who continue to live in houses bought before the bubble. They've already refinanced to the lowest interest rates but are paying higher property taxes because of the propped up prices. It's neutral for people who bought in the last two years. They're less likely to go under water and have problems selling if they need to relocate, but are paying more in property taxes than they would if prices were allowed to correct faster. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DrewEckhardt 0 #11 November 29, 2011 QuoteQuote>What ever puts more capital in the hands of the middle class I'm all for it. Just force everyone to get a second mortgage. Mission accomplished. If they want sure why not. A great time to do so. That's a big part of why so many people are unemployed, under-employed, under-paid, and out of the work force (and therefore not technically unemployed) today. When prices got too out of whack with incomes and rents the "economic growth" from people's home-equity ATM spending ceased along with many of the jobs it supported. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shah269 0 #12 November 29, 2011 Quote I've got a better idea. The extra $200 a month goes towards paying down the extra principal. When you hit 100% LTV you can do whatever you want with it. Higher rates on the student loans than on the condo. It's also a smaller loan as well. Look the long and short of it is this, untill home prices start climbing up at 3% a year as they should....we are not going to see any kind of economic recovery for the middle class. Now the rich guys and gals who own those debt will do just fine. They can care less. You pay they win you don't pay they win.Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay. The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 868 #13 November 29, 2011 I love the irony in that....AND he buys foreign cars. He hates the US economy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shah269 0 #14 November 29, 2011 QuoteThat's not my point. The taxpayers are bailing you out. You pay them back first, then you can do what you want. Last I checked I paid taxes so... You are bailing you out. You pay you back first then you can do what you want. Ok well the best thing for me is to spend any money I get to kill off high interest loans I may have so as to be debt free and to have more capital in the future...which will be worth less than the capital of today....don't think about that too hard. Actually since I have an 80/20 odds aer I may fogo the student loans which are at 4% and try and kill off that 20 loan which has an interest rate of 8.25% If people pay off their debts things will slowly get better. But most sady won't. They will just spend it....which may help but...not over the long run.Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay. The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shah269 0 #15 November 29, 2011 yeah i'm stuck 5-10 years in that condo. so i'll just work at lowering my other debts which have a hiter rate and let the big one float along at what ever rate they determine after all the math. If i save $200 a month I'll be happyLife through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay. The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 868 #16 November 29, 2011 You can do it man. I would never have imagined being able to pay off $100k in debt in just over 3 years. But I did. Painful most of the time...but doable. Keep working away at it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #17 November 29, 2011 Quote Hey, if homeowners can get a refi and a 4% interest rate I say go for it. That's been the the problem all along- they can't get traction on the principal because the rate is high and they can't get a lower rate because they're underwater. Eh, the loans most of these recent buyers were "stuck with" were in the 6.x% range. Even the second loan he has at 8.5% is about the historical average. When I had a preapproved loan in 2000, it was for 8% for the entire balance. 6% would have been sweet. You can get plenty of traction on 6%. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #18 November 29, 2011 Quote Look the long and short of it is this, untill home prices start climbing up at 3% a year as they should....we are not going to see any kind of economic recovery for the middle class. For those who continue to insist this whole mess was caused by the banks, I present exhibit A - the recent homebuyer/bubble creator. Shah - did you pay your condo's former owner a 3%/year gain on his purchase price? Not even close. Look up regression to the mean...prices are going stagnate for a while, despite efforts like HARP to prop them up. That will only extend the pain. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shah269 0 #19 November 29, 2011 Bro he made a good bit of money off of me....about $45k or so. But 3% increase in value is about par. That is to say the homes value keeps up with inflation. And is that so bad? Come on now, you are just being pissy.Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay. The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DrewEckhardt 0 #20 November 29, 2011 QuoteBro he made a good bit of money off of me....about $45k or so. But 3% increase in value is about par. That is to say the homes value keeps up with inflation. Right. No change in real value has been par for the course since 1945. With inflation averaging about 3% that's what we saw printed on price tags. The current long term inflation trend is about 2% and dropping. http://www.multpl.com/case-shiller-home-price-index-inflation-adjusted/ http://inflationdata.com/inflation/images/charts/Annual_Inflation/annual_inflation_chart.htm Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #21 November 29, 2011 QuoteBro he made a good bit of money off of me....about $45k or so. But 3% increase in value is about par. That is to say the homes value keeps up with inflation. And is that so bad? Come on now, you are just being pissy. just pointing out again how you're not getting it. Overpaying for a house and then expecting it to appreciate at the new level is just wrong. You were hardly the only one to make the mistake. A house is not an investment. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shah269 0 #22 November 29, 2011 QuoteThe current long term inflation trend is about 2% and dropping I hear you on this one brother but are you looking at core inflation or aggregate inflation. --great chart by the way, very telling! Yes I agree we had an amazing increase, I'm hoping we hit bottom and if we have then perhaps we should be climbing at a nice steady 3% per year. That gives us liquidity in our investment and we can spend and create jobs. Or so in theory. Just got my info back, I'll be at $248 in my pocket per month. Now that's nice! Push that out to say a million people and we are talking no joke money!Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay. The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
