So Tell Me Again About "Peaceful" Protests

[Kennedy 0]

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Do you think it is acceptable for a group of people to surround officers, block their movement, and refuse to let them go?
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What would you have the officers do?

Act like human beings and leave... and quit escalating things thru stupidity and macho bullshit.

Jeanne, did you even go to the link in the OP? The protesters surrounded the officers an wouldn't let them leave. Watch the video at the bottom of the page. Listen to the chant. They wouldn't let the officers leave. Walking away was not an option. Next answer?

B U L L S H I T..

We are leaving... and they walk away... but we all know that would never happen under Homeland Security militarization.. and needledick syndrome.

Jeanne, have you watched the video at the bottom of the OP link? What do you see on the video? I see a crowd surrounding officers refusing to let them leave. I hear them chanting that they won't let them go. How do you want them to walk away, by stepping on protesters?

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[Amazon 7]

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Do you think it is acceptable for a group of people to surround officers, block their movement, and refuse to let them go?
Snip

What would you have the officers do?

Act like human beings and leave... and quit escalating things thru stupidity and macho bullshit.

Jeanne, did you even go to the link in the OP? The protesters surrounded the officers an wouldn't let them leave. Watch the video at the bottom of the page. Listen to the chant. They wouldn't let the officers leave. Walking away was not an option. Next answer?

B U L L S H I T..

We are leaving... and they walk away... but we all know that would never happen under Homeland Security militarization.. and needledick syndrome.

Jeanne, have you watched the video at the bottom of the OP link? What do you see on the video? I see a crowd surrounding officers refusing to let them leave. I hear them chanting that they won't let them go. How do you want them to walk away, by stepping on protesters?

You are seeing what you want to see.. nothing more

[rhaig 0]

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Have you not realized yet that, if Amazon had her way, we would abolish police and allow anarchy to run rampant?

Nope.. wrong answer.. but I guess in YOUR world you are just peachy keen with the evolving Police state.

clearly she would rather the officers physically wrench the protesters apart. That way they could claim assault and battery and have injuries to show for it.

Makes better news that way.

--
Rob

[Kennedy 0]

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Do you think it is acceptable for a group of people to surround officers, block their movement, and refuse to let them go?
Snip

What would you have the officers do?

Act like human beings and leave... and quit escalating things thru stupidity and macho bullshit.

Jeanne, did you even go to the link in the OP? The protesters surrounded the officers an wouldn't let them leave. Watch the video at the bottom of the page. Listen to the chant. They wouldn't let the officers leave. Walking away was not an option. Next answer?

B U L L S H I T..

We are leaving... and they walk away... but we all know that would never happen under Homeland Security militarization.. and needledick syndrome.

Jeanne, have you watched the video at the bottom of the OP link? What do you see on the video? I see a crowd surrounding officers refusing to let them leave. I hear them chanting that they won't let them go. How do you want them to walk away, by stepping on protesters?

You are seeing what you want to see.. nothing more

Well I doubt I'm hallucinating. So tell me, what do you see in the video? Tell me what you see. Tell me what you hear. If its different from what I see and hear, I REALLY want to know why. Anyone else feel free to chime in. What's in the video?
Edit for typo: damn phone autocorrect

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[Amazon 7]

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Have you not realized yet that, if Amazon had her way, we would abolish police and allow anarchy to run rampant?

Nope.. wrong answer.. but I guess in YOUR world you are just peachy keen with the evolving Police state.

clearly she would rather the officers physically wrench the protesters apart. That way they could claim assault and battery and have injuries to show for it.

Makes better news that way.

There you go ASSuming yet again..

I know you don't actually realize it.. but there are civilized western countries with police who are looked up to... not like those in this country are quicly becoming..

Please do not forget... all you officers out there... that there are a HELL Of a lot more of US... when you want to play the US against THEM game. If you make it more difficlt for us to actually be free and exercise our rights.... you will find it harder and harder to maintain order for your masters.

You can not continue down the path you are going with the mindset you have been led to believe

[Belgian_Draft 0]

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Have you not realized yet that, if Amazon had her way, we would abolish police and allow anarchy to run rampant?

Nope.. wrong answer.. but I guess in YOUR world you are just peachy keen with the evolving Police state.

Well, honey, every time the police enforce the laws we all live under you have a hissy fit and start screaming about constitutional rights.
So, why don't you tell us just how long you think protestors should be allowed to occupy public places and deprive everyone else of their rights to use that same space?

HAMMER:
Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a
kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the
object we are trying to hit.

[Amazon 7]

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Have you not realized yet that, if Amazon had her way, we would abolish police and allow anarchy to run rampant?

Nope.. wrong answer.. but I guess in YOUR world you are just peachy keen with the evolving Police state.

Well, honey, every time the police enforce the laws we all live under you have a hissy fit and start screaming about constitutional rights.
So, why don't you tell us just how long you think protestors should be allowed to occupy public places and deprive everyone else of their rights to use that same space?

Asked and answered Tootsie... but you are incapable of understanding logic and going forward that will cloud your judgement even further.

suhprize suhprize

[Belgian_Draft 0]

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Have you not realized yet that, if Amazon had her way, we would abolish police and allow anarchy to run rampant?

Nope.. wrong answer.. but I guess in YOUR world you are just peachy keen with the evolving Police state.

Well, honey, every time the police enforce the laws we all live under you have a hissy fit and start screaming about constitutional rights.
So, why don't you tell us just how long you think protestors should be allowed to occupy public places and deprive everyone else of their rights to use that same space?

Asked and answered Tootsie... but you are incapable of understanding logic and going forward that will cloud your judgement even further.

suhprize suhprize

Sorry, sweet pea, but you only stated that the officers should just leave.
care to try again, only this time give a real answer instead of your usual dance around the subject? For as much as you whine about politicians, you sure do act just like them when it comes to giving a straight answer.

HAMMER:
Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a
kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the
object we are trying to hit.

[Amazon 7]

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Have you not realized yet that, if Amazon had her way, we would abolish police and allow anarchy to run rampant?

Nope.. wrong answer.. but I guess in YOUR world you are just peachy keen with the evolving Police state.

Well, honey, every time the police enforce the laws we all live under you have a hissy fit and start screaming about constitutional rights.
So, why don't you tell us just how long you think protestors should be allowed to occupy public places and deprive everyone else of their rights to use that same space?

Asked and answered Tootsie... but you are incapable of understanding logic and going forward that will cloud your judgement even further.

suhprize suhprize

Sorry, sweet pea, but you only stated that the officers should just leave.
care to try again, only this time give a real answer instead of your usual dance around the subject? For as much as you whine about politicians, you sure do act just like them when it comes to giving a straight answer.

Aww how cute.. he gets pissed off when someone DOES NOT COMPLY

[rhaig 0]

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There you go ASSuming yet again..

PA, but those rules don't apply to you... you're more equal.

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I know you don't actually realize it.. but there are civilized western countries with police who are looked up to... not like those in this country are quicly becoming..

Police used to help people. Now they've been given procedures to follow (rather than common sense) because the greedy entitled populace became too litigious.

The serve in protect went away many many years ago (unless you're talking about a warrant), and the protect is gone as well.

Part of it we let happen to ourselves by letting the wrong people lead. Part of it was the result of our actions. And part of it just happened to us because of the way the system grew.

Yeah, cops aren't given the benefit of the doubt anymore. They aren't looked up to, and most people have a negative opinion of cops because they only deal with cops when they've done something wrong.

The cops I know who think something is wrong with the system can't do much to fix it without losing their jobs, but they'd rather act slowly from inside than be unemployed and not be able to do as much from the outside.

Yeah, the system is fucked up. But on the street is not where to get into a constitutional argument with "the system". That discussion belongs in a court room.

--
Rob

[Belgian_Draft 0]

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Have you not realized yet that, if Amazon had her way, we would abolish police and allow anarchy to run rampant?

Nope.. wrong answer.. but I guess in YOUR world you are just peachy keen with the evolving Police state.

Well, honey, every time the police enforce the laws we all live under you have a hissy fit and start screaming about constitutional rights.
So, why don't you tell us just how long you think protestors should be allowed to occupy public places and deprive everyone else of their rights to use that same space?

Asked and answered Tootsie... but you are incapable of understanding logic and going forward that will cloud your judgement even further.

suhprize suhprize

Sorry, sweet pea, but you only stated that the officers should just leave.
care to try again, only this time give a real answer instead of your usual dance around the subject? For as much as you whine about politicians, you sure do act just like them when it comes to giving a straight answer.

Aww how cute.. he gets pissed off when someone DOES NOT COMPLY

Oh, I'm not pissed off, Hot Lips. In fact it is kinda funny watching you weasel around every straight forward question that you are asked.
Tell ya what...I'll make it easy. I'll start a poll!

HAMMER:
Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a
kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the
object we are trying to hit.

[kelpdiver 2]

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Yeah, cops aren't given the benefit of the doubt anymore. They aren't looked up to, and most people have a negative opinion of cops because they only deal with cops when they've done something wrong.

Well, it's hard to give the benefit of the doubt here.

The video is interesting in that it's the first I've seen to show more than a straight line of people blocking a sidewalk. It does suggest an encircling, though it's a bit of a stretch to say that the cops couldn't leave - the people were crouched down. The problem is that the showing of the full picture is still incomplete, coupled with the fact that the police didn't seem to defend themselves with this obvious explanation. This delay makes it hard to take at face value.

That said, if the cops were truly trapped, then the use of force is quite easy to justify. Grab a couple of them, manhandle them out of the way, arrest them if warranted due to resistance, and leave. Yes, 2 or 3 protesters might be injured in the process. Your alternative involved injuring all of them, at least all of them in that straight line (what happened with the rest of the circle?). How is injuring 20 easier to justify than injuring 3? It was obviously easier, and appeared to be more fun for the cops, but that's not how policy is dictated, is it?

[rhaig 0]

you seem to have missed the part about officers have been given procedures to follow instead of common sense.

procedures say that OC is lower on the force index than physically separating and moving protesters so the officers could leave. if they don't respond to OC, then the officers are able to step up to hard physical response. (typically... I don't know the use of force doctrine for UCD police, but I suspect it is similar to what I've read here).

--
Rob

[kelpdiver 2]

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procedures say that OC is lower on the force index than physically separating and moving protesters so the officers could leave. if they don't respond to OC, then the officers are able to step up to hard physical response. (typically... I don't know the use of force doctrine for UCD police, but I suspect it is similar to what I've read here).

Is it? We've seen some ranking them in opposite order.

And again, how is 20 < 3?

And perhaps more importantly - we still haven't established the encirclement. Frankly I consider it as unlikely as that the woman was pregnant.

[rhaig 0]

what I've seen is soft contact, spray, then hard contact.

your 20 and 3 are different injury classes and as such you're comparing apples and oranges. 20 OC sprayed vs 3 with mechanical injuries that could take much longer to recover from and (more importantly to the campus police department) would open the university to more lawsuits.

so if you're going to insist on the apples/oranges comparison, I'd say that yes, 20 OC sprayed protesters is less than 3 protesters with anything up to and including broken bones and dislocated joints (depending on the level of physical resistance).

Not to mention that none of us were there, and as such couldn't gauge the likelihood of the crowd escalating violence if they saw officers injuring protesters. (which several in this thread seem to rather have happened, yourself included)

--
Rob

[JohnnyMarko 1]

I demoed a Sabre2 once and I loved it! But I love my current Silhouette! You should demo all you can and find a canopy that's right for you!

[Belgian_Draft 0]

I think I have the problem solved.
No more pepper spray.
No more mace.
No clubs, batons, whatevers.
Not even dogs are needed!
Just a few small cuddly friendly critters.

HAMMER:
Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a
kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the
object we are trying to hit.

[Kennedy 0]

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The video is interesting in that it's the first I've seen to show more than a straight line of people blocking a sidewalk. It does suggest an encircling, though it's a bit of a stretch to say that the cops couldn't leave - the people were crouched down.

Do you really expect police to climb over people who have surrounded them and won't let them leave? It'll never happen for two reasons: one, no officer is going to make himself that vulnerable to someone, especially when that someone has no respect for police, and two, police are there to enforce the law - not to run away. What kind of message is sent when officers are fully prepared and still run away? A smaller but still relevant issue is how will the climbing over protesters open police to liability, aka the ever present "how can this get me sued?" concern.

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The problem is that the showing of the full picture is still incomplete, coupled with the fact that the police didn't seem to defend themselves with this obvious explanation. This delay makes it hard to take at face value.

Actually, this came out this first day after the pepper spray video hit the web. No one focussed on it. You can even find it in one of the other threads. The problem is that protesters can make up and lies or sensationalized story they want to match their pics. The police and school admin actually need facts and an investigation. They have something to lose. Has anyone really take the OWS folks to task for all their lies?

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That said, if the cops were truly trapped, then the use of force is quite easy to justify. Grab a couple of them, manhandle them out of the way, arrest them if warranted due to resistance, and leave. Yes, 2 or 3 protesters might be injured in the process. Your alternative involved injuring all of them, at least all of them in that straight line (what happened with the rest of the circle?). How is injuring 20 easier to justify than injuring 3? It was obviously easier, and appeared to be more fun for the cops, but that's not how policy is dictated, is it.

What you're missing is that the ten or fifteen suspects sitting on the sidewalk were NOT injured. Despite the idiocy of the faculty letter to UC Davis president, no one puked blood and no one needed a hospital. Lots of water, clean clothes, and a fan is all they needed. None of them sustained any injuries at all. They experienced temporary discomfort, nothing more. (remember, I say that after three full dousings with OC and countless exposures; I hate the stuff so much I'd rather be TASERed again than be fully sprayed) Its uncomfortable as it gets, but discomfort is not an injury. As stupid as the "it's a food, essentially" comment was, she was trying to make a valid point: OC is not a dangerous substance and exposure will not injure you. After the sidewalk sitters were sprayed, they were separated by hand. This was mich more gentle than yanking them apart would have been, and much safer for both suspect and officer.

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[kelpdiver 2]

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The problem is that the showing of the full picture is still incomplete, coupled with the fact that the police didn't seem to defend themselves with this obvious explanation. This delay makes it hard to take at face value.

Actually, this came out this first day after the pepper spray video hit the web. No one focussed on it. You can even find it in one of the other threads. The problem is that protesters can make up and lies or sensationalized story they want to match their pics. The police and school admin actually need facts and an investigation. They have something to lose. Has anyone really take the OWS folks to task for all their lies?

They are calling for the resignation of the UC Chancellor and she does not want to give up her cushy job one bit. It would be very easy for her to say - they threatened the police by trapping them. If it were true. I'm living in the Bay Area with some of the most sympathetic media around and yet they're still getting the authorities' side of the story.

[matthewcline 0]

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Yeah, when you break the law and the police show, you should comply with their instructions or expect to suffer unpleasant consequences as they use reasonable force to overcome your resistance. Why do you have an issue with officers following the law and department policy?

I am not surprised at all by the site you posted.. more false information from the far fringe right that poses as reality in our quicly approaching militaristic religio-fascist state that the fundamentalists long for

Why do YOU apologize for bullies who get off on their little power trips day in and day out.??

I didn't look at Kennedy's site, but do recall watching a video posted by Occupy UC that should the Police DID ask the Protester's to break it up and let them pass, the PD was surrounded, a line seated and a large crowd surrounding them and chanting if I recall. The Protesters refused, the PD said the next steps they wold need to take, the leader said "OK" and (Paraphrased) You're Just gonna spray us right?, the PD says yes. and then the next three or so minutes is the PD warning again and again they are gonna spray and then the chants begin with "spray" changed to "shoot".

When one steps back and looks at the whole UC event, it is not as Jack Booted as some would want others to believe, nor are the PD with out some guilt for some missteps.

They got surrounded, they should not have gotten in that position, of course the UC Campus Pres asked them to intervene, thus the circular arguments and no one "wins", since no one listens.

Matt

An Instructors first concern is student safety.
So, start being safe, first!!!

[DougH 270]

Stop being so middle of the road.

You need to pick a side, either:

the police are Nazi scum who are mowing down girl scouts with napalm for setting their cookie tables to close to a school zone, and have 100% liability

Or,

the occupy folks are enemies of the state and are 100% at fault for the events that took place. They should all be rounded up and executed for treason.


We can't have any of this logical middle of the road shit, there is no place in the SC for looking at both sides of an issue!!!!

"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P

[matthewcline 0]

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Stop being so middle of the road.

You need to pick a side, either:

the police are Nazi scum who are mowing down girl scouts with napalm for setting their cookie tables to close to a school zone, and have 100% liability

Or,

the occupy folks are enemies of the state and are 100% at fault for the events that took place. They should all be rounded up and executed for treason.


We can't have any of this logical middle of the road shit, there is no place in the SC for looking at both sides of an issue!!!!

"My Bad!"

Matt

An Instructors first concern is student safety.
So, start being safe, first!!!

[CanuckInUSA 0]

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Stop being so middle of the road.

You need to pick a side, either:

the police are Nazi scum who are mowing down girl scouts with napalm for setting their cookie tables to close to a school zone, and have 100% liability

Or,

the occupy folks are enemies of the state and are 100% at fault for the events that took place. They should all be rounded up and executed for treason.


We can't have any of this logical middle of the road shit, there is no place in the SC for looking at both sides of an issue!!!!

Yes we need to crack the skulls of those low life Girl Guides. Because if we do not get them now while they are young, they will grow up into this.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[Kennedy 0]

Well, we can't trust the Occupy folks for the full story, and UC Davis is slow in getting things out because they actually seem to care about getting the story correct. But videos shot by Occupy types is the best evidence against them.

So here's what nobody has said.

Look at this video, show from inside the circle of protesters surrounding police officers and refusing to allow the officers to leave.
YouTube Video showing officers escorting an arresttee out of the circle to the waiting squad car. That means the officers made an arrest, and the protesters sat down in a circle and refused to let the officers take their prisoner to the jail/holding facility.

YouTube Video linked in the OP. Listen carefully to the chants. At 00:50, protesters are chanting "WE WILL LET YOU LEAVE, IF YOU LET THEM GO."

So does anyone still think this was a peaceful protest where some jackbooted thugs just rolled up for a day of OC spray and giggles?

It looks to me like officers made an arrest, the protesters surrounded the officers, refused to let officers leave, were warned that force would be used to allow officers to leave, and OC spray was used.

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[Amazon 7]

You do seem to have the inability to tell what civil disobidience and peacefull protest is... and ALL OF THEM IS OUT TO GET YOU.


Sorry but that mentality is going to catch up with a LOT of police departments.... How long do you think it will take till we get back to a new and improved version of Kent State.