Possible short term positive, guaranteed long term negative.

[Anvilbrother 0]

[/url]http://moveleft.org/subprime/crisis_continued.html[url]

What can we expect in the future? The so-called stimulus package is unlikely to create a noticeable number of jobs, because most of the planned spending -- actually around 90 percent -- is not an investment, but rather political spending [12-13]. While we cannot expect inventment into the economy, we will nonetheless have massive debt [14]. The figure to the right illustrates the sheer abyss of deficit we are facing (do I remember that Mr. Bush was critisized for his 2004 budget deficit?). This deficit will have to be paid off, eventually. How? Tax the wealthy? This strategy would not work as there are too few "wealthy" to tax. It might alleviate envy complexes in Mr. Obama's constituency, but it will not noticeably reduce a $2 trillion debt. Tax the poor? This would not work either. First, a large amount of the people don't pay taxes at all, and second, this is exactly Mr. Obama's constituency. Other countries? This might work, but it would de-value the Dollar and hurt imports. Specifically, goods for consumption (China) and energy would get more expensive.

This leaves only one avenue. Inflation. And its consequence: rising interest rates.

Please compare this scenario to Mr. Obama's election promises [15]. To quote from the document where Mr. Obama promised more fiscal discipline:

"The cost of our debt is one of the fastest growing expenses in the federal budget. This rising debt is a hidden domestic enemy, robbing our cities and states of critical investments in infrastructure like bridges, ports, and levees; robbing our families and our children of critical investments in education and health care reform; robbing our seniors of the retirement and health security they have counted on. ... If Washington were serious about honest tax relief in this country, we'd see an effort to reduce our national debt by returning to responsible fiscal policies."
Barack Obama, Speech in the U.S. Senate, March 13, 2006
Now look at the figure to the right. Is this the level of debt we can expect from somebody who so vehemently critisized the Bush administration's level of debt? Is this fiscal responsibility? Mr. Obama and his fellow liberals in Congress have indeed created a new "hidden domestic enemy" of unprecedented strength. This enemy, a mirror image of the liberals who created it, is here to stay.

This is where we are heading: a federal deficit that is too big to be paid back, massive inflation, and dramatically increased interest rates. This is what we got: a federal deficit that robs our cities and states of critical investments in infrastructure, that robs our families and our children of critical investments in education and health care reform; that robs our seniors of the retirement and health security they have counted on.

Thank you, Mr. Obama, for the clarification.


Before someone named A jumps in here and starts name calling and making up their own words. I learned a long time ago that anything on credit is a loosing deal. Why pay anyone to borrow money if you don't have to. Its called a budget, and it should be at 0 or in the positive at the end of the month/year. I don't care if it was Washington Bush Regan Clinton or Obama. Just happens Obama is the one who is doing it now. Cut spending you can't tax or borrow your way out of this.

Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along,

[Amazon 7]

Quote

[/url]http://moveleft.org/subprime/crisis_continued.html[url]

What can we expect in the future? The so-called stimulus package is unlikely to create a noticeable number of jobs, because most of the planned spending -- actually around 90 percent -- is not an investment, but rather political spending [12-13]. While we cannot expect inventment into the economy, we will nonetheless have massive debt [14]. The figure to the right illustrates the sheer abyss of deficit we are facing (do I remember that Mr. Bush was critisized for his 2004 budget deficit?). This deficit will have to be paid off, eventually. How? Tax the wealthy? This strategy would not work as there are too few "wealthy" to tax. It might alleviate envy complexes in Mr. Obama's constituency, but it will not noticeably reduce a $2 trillion debt. Tax the poor? This would not work either. First, a large amount of the people don't pay taxes at all, and second, this is exactly Mr. Obama's constituency. Other countries? This might work, but it would de-value the Dollar and hurt imports. Specifically, goods for consumption (China) and energy would get more expensive.

This leaves only one avenue. Inflation. And its consequence: rising interest rates.

Please compare this scenario to Mr. Obama's election promises [15]. To quote from the document where Mr. Obama promised more fiscal discipline:

"The cost of our debt is one of the fastest growing expenses in the federal budget. This rising debt is a hidden domestic enemy, robbing our cities and states of critical investments in infrastructure like bridges, ports, and levees; robbing our families and our children of critical investments in education and health care reform; robbing our seniors of the retirement and health security they have counted on. ... If Washington were serious about honest tax relief in this country, we'd see an effort to reduce our national debt by returning to responsible fiscal policies."
Barack Obama, Speech in the U.S. Senate, March 13, 2006
Now look at the figure to the right. Is this the level of debt we can expect from somebody who so vehemently critisized the Bush administration's level of debt? Is this fiscal responsibility? Mr. Obama and his fellow liberals in Congress have indeed created a new "hidden domestic enemy" of unprecedented strength. This enemy, a mirror image of the liberals who created it, is here to stay.

This is where we are heading: a federal deficit that is too big to be paid back, massive inflation, and dramatically increased interest rates. This is what we got: a federal deficit that robs our cities and states of critical investments in infrastructure, that robs our families and our children of critical investments in education and health care reform; that robs our seniors of the retirement and health security they have counted on.

Thank you, Mr. Obama, for the clarification.


Before someone named A jumps in here and starts name calling and making up their own words. I learned a long time ago that anything on credit is a loosing deal. Why pay anyone to borrow money if you don't have to. Its called a budget, and it should be at 0 or in the positive at the end of the month/year. I don't care if it was Washington Bush Regan Clinton or Obama. Just happens Obama is the one who is doing it now. Cut spending you can't tax or borrow your way out of this.

WAITER... more FONDUE

So the answer is the right wings idea to stretch out that debt as long as they can.. over 60 years... with just cuts to "entitlement programs"

Tsk Tsk Tsk wont work..

How about cutting the REAL problem... return to a tax structure that was making progress to reducing the massive debt that had already accrued from the policies of VOO DOO economics as practiced for 12 years of Saint Ronnie and King George the First. IT only took the policies of King George the Second to ensure that the banks would be getting interest FOREVER on a debt that he and his fellow travellers ran up.. and the right wing has blocked any attempt to fix that... all they can try is to cut a miniscule amount of programs they HATE. Face it.. if you want to destroy the government and turn the country completely over to the corporations the Bush and Reagan Administrations have set it in motion.

[Anvilbrother 0]

No cut useless programs and live within your means we don't have to be a global savior of all mankind or useless slackers sitting on their asses at home. Taxing people to death is not the answer. If your happy about paying high taxes then your not paying any or dumb.

Would you be happy paying 50-75% taxes?? Hell let's just send all our money to Obama, and he can give back what he thinks we need...

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[Anvilbrother 0]

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0911/63853.html

Even your own people think 47 cents on the dollar is wasted by the government!

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[Amazon 7]

Quote

No cut useless programs and live within your means we don't have to be a global savior of all mankind or useless slackers sitting on their asses at home. Taxing people to death is not the answer. If your happy about paying high taxes then your not paying any or dumb.

Would you be happy paying 50-75% taxes?? Hell let's just send all our money to Obama, and he can give back what he thinks we need...

I would posit I am in a FAR higher tax bracket than most of the usual suspects here in SC... I look at things like taxes that pay for education.. and roads and services that many of us use as the COST of living in a civilized society. Just because the right wing wants people to be dumb as dirt and proud of it, it does not mean that I will not do anything I can to forstall the coming IDOCRACY that the rePUBIClowns want in this country.

OH... and as far as being the World police... let the rest of the world blow themselves all to hell for a few decades... at 7 billion people.. the planet needs less morons who only eat and fuck all day long.

[chutem 0]

It's going to take both tax increases and spending cuts to make a dent in our debt. One or the other will not do it. Even with both we're in deep shit.

James

[Amazon 7]

Quote

It's going to take both tax increases and spending cuts to make a dent in our debt. One or the other will not do it. Even with both we're in deep shit.

James

Amen to that.... and to claim otherwise... is D E L U S I O N A L

[dks13827 3]

"Hell let's just send all our money to Obama, and he can give back what he thinks we need... "

Union guys would receive a lot, the rest of the sheep, nothing.

I wonder how much of the 500+ million to Solyndra went right back to campaign coffers, hmmmm ??
You gotta laugh at the chutzpah to do that,, with OUR money. Kind of funny !!! Not !!!!

[Anvilbrother 0]

I'm all for the essentials. But 750,000 for a pizza vending machine for a school that only ended up selling 300 pizzas due to mechanical issues does not sound like essentials.

Quit generalizing everyone but yourself as rednecks that sleep with farm animals. No one is saying fire all the teacher, firemen, cops, dpw workers, trash the infrastructures, etc.. It's the WASTE. You could cut all that shit out, stop handing money under the table, and be fine with the current tax code or less

I would give you a run for your money on that tax bracket....


Please google wasteful government spending. It's too much to list here. Everything from 200k to study the isralies reaction to skud attacks to 100 million in unused airline tickets lost because they were not used, 661 million in unpaid credit transactions owed by politicians while traveling. The SEC spent 3.9 million to rearrange desks....

Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along,

[airdvr 210]

Quote

Quote

No cut useless programs and live within your means we don't have to be a global savior of all mankind or useless slackers sitting on their asses at home. Taxing people to death is not the answer. If your happy about paying high taxes then your not paying any or dumb.

Would you be happy paying 50-75% taxes?? Hell let's just send all our money to Obama, and he can give back what he thinks we need...

I would posit I am in a FAR higher tax bracket than most of the usual suspects here in SC... I look at things like taxes that pay for education.. and roads and services that many of us use as the COST of living in a civilized society. Just because the right wing wants people to be dumb as dirt and proud of it, it does not mean that I will not do anything I can to forstall the coming IDOCRACY that the rePUBIClowns want in this country.

It's exactly your kind of right v. left thinking that will ultimately doom this country. We're only in a higher tax bracket than most here because we're older and have more things to tax.

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[Amazon 7]

Quote

"Hell let's just send all our money to Obama, and he can give back what he thinks we need... "

Union guys would receive a lot, the rest of the sheep, nothing.

I wonder how much of the 500+ million to Solyndra went right back to campaign coffers, hmmmm ??
You gotta laugh at the chutzpah to do that,, with OUR money. Kind of funny !!! Not !!!!

You have not been paying attention... Ask yourself WHERE all the money that the government is spending is REALLLY going to..how much of it ends up right in the pocets of the 1%... you know.. those who OWN the military industrial complex where the largest amount goes to.

[rushmc 23]

Quote

Quote

"Hell let's just send all our money to Obama, and he can give back what he thinks we need... "

Union guys would receive a lot, the rest of the sheep, nothing.

I wonder how much of the 500+ million to Solyndra went right back to campaign coffers, hmmmm ??
You gotta laugh at the chutzpah to do that,, with OUR money. Kind of funny !!! Not !!!!

You have not been paying attention... Ask yourself WHERE all the money that the government is spending is REALLLY going to..how much of it ends up right in the pocets of the 1%... you know.. those who OWN the military industrial complex where the largest amount goes to.

What is (according to the IRS) the lowest yearly reported income in the 1% of all earners bracket?

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Amazon 7]

Quote

I'm all for the essentials. But 750,000 for a pizza vending machine for a school that only ended up selling 300 pizzas due to mechanical issues does not sound like essentials.

Quit generalizing everyone but yourself as rednecks that sleep with farm animals. No one is saying fire all the teacher, firemen, cops, dpw workers, trash the infrastructures, etc.. It's the WASTE. You could cut all that shit out, stop handing money under the table, and be fine with the current tax code or less

I would give you a run for your money on that tax bracket....


Please google wasteful government spending. It's too much to list here. Everything from 200k to study the isralies reaction to skud attacks to 100 million in unused airline tickets lost because they were not used, 661 million in unpaid credit transactions owed by politicians while traveling. The SEC spent 3.9 million to rearrange desks....

And jsut how much is spent as a direct result of the military industrial types to prop up those who have bought and paid for politicians ????

Until you realize who the 800 pound gorilla in the room is that is dressed in camo.... you are just blowing smoke up yalls asses.

[Amazon 7]

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No cut useless programs and live within your means we don't have to be a global savior of all mankind or useless slackers sitting on their asses at home. Taxing people to death is not the answer. If your happy about paying high taxes then your not paying any or dumb.

Would you be happy paying 50-75% taxes?? Hell let's just send all our money to Obama, and he can give back what he thinks we need...

I would posit I am in a FAR higher tax bracket than most of the usual suspects here in SC... I look at things like taxes that pay for education.. and roads and services that many of us use as the COST of living in a civilized society. Just because the right wing wants people to be dumb as dirt and proud of it, it does not mean that I will not do anything I can to forstall the coming IDOCRACY that the rePUBIClowns want in this country.

It's exactly your kind of right v. left thinking that will ultimately doom this country. We're only in a higher tax bracket than most here because we're older and have more things to tax.

No I see a right that is TOO FUCKING intransigent to do what is right for this country.... Until they take off the little girl panties.. and grow the fuck up... nothing is going to change.

You guys elected a bunch of clowns who are incapable of governing... they are like a bunch of spoiled children that need a BIG FUCKING TIME OUT.

[Anvilbrother 0]

Your making my point for me! Stop the under the table deals and set up loans that are doomed from the start given as political favors. You should be pissed your money is going to the 1% but you still sit there and bitch that we are not giving enough...so they can have more to mismmanage?

Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along,

[chutem 0]

Quote

Quote

Quote

"Hell let's just send all our money to Obama, and he can give back what he thinks we need... "

Union guys would receive a lot, the rest of the sheep, nothing.

I wonder how much of the 500+ million to Solyndra went right back to campaign coffers, hmmmm ??
You gotta laugh at the chutzpah to do that,, with OUR money. Kind of funny !!! Not !!!!

You have not been paying attention... Ask yourself WHERE all the money that the government is spending is REALLLY going to..how much of it ends up right in the pocets of the 1%... you know.. those who OWN the military industrial complex where the largest amount goes to.

What is (according to the IRS) the lowest yearly reported income in the 1% of all earners bracket?

2009 $343,927 is what I'm seeing.

James

[airdvr 210]

Quote

You guys elected a bunch of clowns who are incapable of governing... they are like a bunch of spoiled children that need a BIG FUCKING TIME OUT.

I feel that way about our current administration too. Nice to know we have something in common.

What you don't get is the porkulous will ultimately hurt the economy by taking 750 BILLION FUCKING DOLLARS OUT OF THE PRIVATE SECTOR! That chicken's gonna come home to roost shortly. Jesus, economics 101. Take a good hard look at Greece and Italy...it's like having a crystal ball. It's our future if we don't do something about it.

In fact, I think the Italians have a good fix. Remove all of the career politicians and replace them with people who don't give a damn about being re-elected.

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[rushmc 23]

Quote

Quote

Quote

Quote

"Hell let's just send all our money to Obama, and he can give back what he thinks we need... "

Union guys would receive a lot, the rest of the sheep, nothing.

I wonder how much of the 500+ million to Solyndra went right back to campaign coffers, hmmmm ??
You gotta laugh at the chutzpah to do that,, with OUR money. Kind of funny !!! Not !!!!

You have not been paying attention... Ask yourself WHERE all the money that the government is spending is REALLLY going to..how much of it ends up right in the pocets of the 1%... you know.. those who OWN the military industrial complex where the largest amount goes to.

What is (according to the IRS) the lowest yearly reported income in the 1% of all earners bracket?

2009 $343,927 is what I'm seeing.

James

Cool

Next question

What percentage of federal income taxes are paid by the 1% ? (those who have an income of the number you posted and above)

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[chutem 0]

Quote

Quote

Quote

Quote

Quote

"Hell let's just send all our money to Obama, and he can give back what he thinks we need... "

Union guys would receive a lot, the rest of the sheep, nothing.

I wonder how much of the 500+ million to Solyndra went right back to campaign coffers, hmmmm ??
You gotta laugh at the chutzpah to do that,, with OUR money. Kind of funny !!! Not !!!!

You have not been paying attention... Ask yourself WHERE all the money that the government is spending is REALLLY going to..how much of it ends up right in the pocets of the 1%... you know.. those who OWN the military industrial complex where the largest amount goes to.

What is (according to the IRS) the lowest yearly reported income in the 1% of all earners bracket?

2009 $343,927 is what I'm seeing.

James

Cool

Next question

What percentage of federal income taxes are paid by the 1% ? (those who have an income of the number you posted and above)

36.73 it appears. It will need to be more as will the percentage that the rest of us pay. Along with that spending will need to be cut if we are to get out of this mess. It sucks bigtime, but it is the way it is. I guess the other option is to become a conquering nation and take what we want from the rest of the world.

James

[Amazon 7]

Quote

Your making my point for me! Stop the under the table deals and set up loans that are doomed from the start given as political favors. You should be pissed your money is going to the 1% but you still sit there and bitch that we are not giving enough...so they can have more to mismmanage?

YOU are indeed making the point for ME.... Tax those who have been GETTING all the money... since it has been GUSHING upward to them.

A return to a sound tax policy and repeal all the cuts made by the last administration... return spending to the levels of 2000.. and we MIGHT stand a chance of not having the next 70 to 80 years of paying ever growing interest biils.

All the right can do is blither on and on and on about cutting cutting cutting... waste...

Get a grip... the waste ( as you define it) is but a drop in the bucket.... worth going after.. but unless you are willing to support rasing revenue... its just more smoke up the ole wazoo... but I guess some guys dig that action.

[Amazon 7]

Quote

It sucks bigtime, but it is the way it is. I guess the other option is to become a conquering nation and take what we want from the rest of the world.

Too many chickenhawks... not enough hawks. They are too busy expecting someone else to do it for them.... because THEY are the "people who matter"

[Anvilbrother 0]

Better let your boy know

"Crunching the numbers at the liberal think tank the Center for American Progress, analyst Michael Linden found that if one compares the cost of tax cuts in just the first four years of Bush’s term (2001–04) to the first four years of Obama's (2009–12), Obama’s tax cuts are bigger. The value of the Bush tax cuts were about $475 billion in those first four years, or about 1.1 percent of GDP. Obama’s total about $1 trillion, or 1.6 percent of GDP.

Obama has cut taxes to lower levels than Bush did, says Linden. This is because, of course, Obama thus far has extended all of the Bush tax cuts and then cut taxes on top of that. His original stimulus bill in 2009 had $290 billion in Making Work Pay tax cuts. His speech Thursday night before Congress advocated for another $175 billion in payroll tax cuts, which come on top of $110 billion from last December’s budget deal. Speeded-up expensing for business adds another $10 billion or so.

All in all, Obama is responsible for many billions in tax cuts, yet the popular perception is that he has raised taxes."

Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along,

[Amazon 7]

Quote

Better let your boy know

"Crunching the numbers at the liberal think tank the Center for American Progress, analyst Michael Linden found that if one compares the cost of tax cuts in just the first four years of Bush’s term (2001–04) to the first four years of Obama's (2009–12), Obama’s tax cuts are bigger. The value of the Bush tax cuts were about $475 billion in those first four years, or about 1.1 percent of GDP. Obama’s total about $1 trillion, or 1.6 percent of GDP.

Obama has cut taxes to lower levels than Bush did, says Linden. This is because, of course, Obama thus far has extended all of the Bush tax cuts and then cut taxes on top of that. His original stimulus bill in 2009 had $290 billion in Making Work Pay tax cuts. His speech Thursday night before Congress advocated for another $175 billion in payroll tax cuts, which come on top of $110 billion from last December’s budget deal. Speeded-up expensing for business adds another $10 billion or so.

All in all, Obama is responsible for many billions in tax cuts, yet the popular perception is that he has raised taxes."

Isnt playing with number fun..... dishonest.. but fun.

[lawrocket 3]

Alan Simpson and Erskine Bowles. Perhaps you should read up on them.

Of course, the hardcore right and the hardcore left both hate their recommendations. So you'd absolutely be floored by them because they make so much sense.

How about giving them a read and find out that dealing with the deficit is not a Voodoo economics problem (were we spending at 2004 levels we'd have a surplus).

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[rushmc 23]

Quote

Quote

Quote

Quote

Quote

Quote

"Hell let's just send all our money to Obama, and he can give back what he thinks we need... "

Union guys would receive a lot, the rest of the sheep, nothing.

I wonder how much of the 500+ million to Solyndra went right back to campaign coffers, hmmmm ??
You gotta laugh at the chutzpah to do that,, with OUR money. Kind of funny !!! Not !!!!

You have not been paying attention... Ask yourself WHERE all the money that the government is spending is REALLLY going to..how much of it ends up right in the pocets of the 1%... you know.. those who OWN the military industrial complex where the largest amount goes to.

What is (according to the IRS) the lowest yearly reported income in the 1% of all earners bracket?

2009 $343,927 is what I'm seeing.

James

Cool

Next question

What percentage of federal income taxes are paid by the 1% ? (those who have an income of the number you posted and above)

36.73 it appears. It will need to be more as will the percentage that the rest of us pay. Along with that spending will need to be cut if we are to get out of this mess. It sucks bigtime, but it is the way it is. I guess the other option is to become a conquering nation and take what we want from the rest of the world.

James

No, it does not need to be more

We have a spending problem
Not a revenue problem

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln