OWS - NYC, peaceful protest, my ass!

[Amazon 7]

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If you don't like the pepper spray option, what would you prefer the officers have done?

It's almost tragic you've to ask that, but here's an option:

The cop tells the protester to move his ass. If the protester refuses the cop warns him he will be arrested. If the protester refuses to move after that, he/she gets arrested. With as little as force possible. In civilized countries pepper-spray is usually only used against aggressive people, that pose a threat for the officer. Pepperspray isn't harmless and only an idiot would use it for no reason whatsoever.

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it's clear they were trained in Mobile Field Force tactics and used those tactice effectively

I've no idea what Mobile Field Force Tactics are, but I'm rather sure you don't need them against a couple of kids sitting on the pavement doing nothing.

But a power mad bully that pulls a thought out of his ass of showing those dirty hippies who is boss will not bother with that.

Too many power tripping control freaks have decided that "police" work gives them the right to do any damn thing they want... especially when the thin blue line is so fucking paranoid of those they are supposed to be "protecting" and instead will do anything to protect their fellow officers.. no matter how fucked up they are.

A thug in blue or green or brown or black.. is still just a thug.

[Marinus 0]

I'm no fan of the Occupy X protests, but that aside I think this footage is disturbing. There's a couple of kids doing absolutely nothing to provoke violence from the cops, there is a cop which douses them in tear gas with a demeanour of someone watering plants and this happens in a country I consider to be civilized and free.

People who don't see what's wrong here might want to ask themselves how they would feel if they where protesting peacefully for a cause they deemed just and that was done to them.

[Kennedy 0]

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If you don't like the pepper spray option, what would you prefer the officers have done?

It's almost tragic you've to ask that, but here's an option:

The cop tells the protester to move his ass. If the protester refuses the cop warns him he will be arrested. If the protester refuses to move after that, he/she gets arrested. With as little as force possible. In civilized countries pepper-spray is usually only used against aggressive people, that pose a threat for the officer. Pepperspray isn't harmless and only an idiot would use it for no reason whatsoever.

And clearly you have no idea what you're talking about when it comes to law enforcement and legal use fo force. Tell you what: if you can find a use of force policy that places OC spray at a higher level than "hard hands" techniques, I'll give a damn what you have to say because as of right now, you're spewing pure grade A uninformed bullshit. Go ahead, find me an example of your "civilized country".

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it's clear they were trained in Mobile Field Force tactics and used those tactice effectively

I've no idea what Mobile Field Force Tactics are, but I'm rather sure you don't need them against a couple of kids sitting on the pavement doing nothing.

Thank you yet again for proving you have no idea what you're talking about. Mobile Field Force is how officers across the nation are trained to respond to protests, riots, demonstrations, etc. Educate yourself, then rejoin the conversation.

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[Kennedy 0]

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I'm no fan of the Occupy X protests, but that aside I think this footage is disturbing. There's a couple of kids doing absolutely nothing to provoke violence from the cops, there is a cop which douses them in tear gas with a demeanour of someone watering plants and this happens in a country I consider to be civilized and free.

It's pepper spray, not tear gas. Oleoresin Capsicum (that's the OC in OC Pepper Spray) is very different from 2-chlorobenzalmalononitrile (the CS in Tear Gas). Again, educate yourself, please.

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People who don't see what's wrong here might want to ask themselves how they would feel if they where protesting peacefully for a cause they deemed just and that was done to them.

You really need to work on your definition of "peaceful". It is not the same as nonviolent.

editted to remove doubled parapraph

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[christelsabine 1]

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I'm no fan of the Occupy X protests, but that aside I think this footage is disturbing. There's a couple of kids doing absolutely nothing to provoke violence from the cops, there is a cop which douses them in tear gas with a demeanour of someone watering plants and this happens in a country I consider to be civilized and free.

People who don't see what's wrong here might want to ask themselves how they would feel if they where protesting peacefully for a cause they deemed just and that was done to them.

It's pepper spray, not tear gas. Oleoresin Capsicum (that's the OC in OC Pepper Spray) is very different from 2-chlorobenzalmalononitrile (the CS in Tear Gas). Again, educate yourself, please.

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People who don't see what's wrong here might want to ask themselves how they would feel if they where protesting peacefully for a cause they deemed just and that was done to them.

You really need to work on your definition of "peaceful". It is not the same as nonviolent.

You really need to work on getting some anger management, Kennedy - you sound mad, man .....

dudeist skydiver # 3105

[Kennedy 0]

Nope, not angry, just frustrated that people complain without bothering to get all the information first. If a person doesn't care to educate themselves and instead just complains to like minded (and similarly ignorant) people, then they accomplish nothing.

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[Marinus 0]

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It's pepper spray, not tear gas. Oleoresin Capsicum (that's the OC in OC Pepper Spray) is very different from 2-chlorobenzalmalononitrile (the CS in Tear Gas). Again, educate yourself, please.

Whatever, both can cause problems in people with a pre-existing condition, and shouldn't be used without a reason.

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You really need to work on your definition of "peaceful". It is not the same as nonviolent.

This protest was both non-violent and peaceful.

So we're talking semantics now....

Out of arguments?

[Marinus 0]

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Nope, not angry, just frustrated that people complain without bothering to get all the information first. If a person doesn't care to educate themselves and instead just complains to like minded (and similarly ignorant) people, then they accomplish nothing.

I suspect you're one of those people who call anyone whoi doesn't think like them ignorant. Am I right? *)



















*) Of course I'm right!

[Kennedy 0]

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Out of arguments?

Not at all. I'm just trying to get you to understand how things actually work.

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The cop tells the protester to move his ass. If the protester refuses the cop warns him he will be arrested. If the protester refuses to move after that, he/she gets arrested. With as little as force possible.

That's exactly what happened. Except that the officers were far more professional that telling someone to "move their ass."

Just about every police organization uses the following use of force continuum. *

Officer presense
Verbal commands
OC spray
Hands-on techniques
TASER
Baton
Deadly force

That goes from Tokyo to Berlin to London to NYC to LA. Some move TASER around a notch up or down. That's why the officers isseud commands. When those weren't followed, they gave warnings about imminent use of force. When those weren't heeded, they used OC spray. When that didn't work, they moved in and used hands-on. I think I saw one officer use a baton in a pry bar type moved to separate to protestors, but did not strike anyone. So you see, they used the minimum reasonable force, and because they had time, they moved up the scale one notch at a time.

* - Some agencies have gone away from the continuum concept because they don't want people to think you have to hit every step up and down. They use a sphere or other exaqmple. The continuum doesn't have to hit every notch on the way up. For example, officers don't use pepper spray or hands on when facing a knife: they use deadly force. Or if they have back up and time, they may use verbal commands and a TASER, depending on circumstances.

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[Elite_Marksman 0]

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If you don't like the pepper spray option, what would you prefer the officers have done?

It's almost tragic you've to ask that, but here's an option:

The cop tells the protester to move his ass. If the protester refuses the cop warns him he will be arrested. If the protester refuses to move after that, he/she gets arrested. With as little as force possible. In civilized countries pepper-spray is usually only used against aggressive people, that pose a threat for the officer. Pepperspray isn't harmless and only an idiot would use it for no reason whatsoever.

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it's clear they were trained in Mobile Field Force tactics and used those tactice effectively

I've no idea what Mobile Field Force Tactics are, but I'm rather sure you don't need them against a couple of kids sitting on the pavement doing nothing.

You do realize that using pepper spray is far less dangerous to all involved than going hands-on to effect an arrest?

With pepper spray you get a very unpleasant sensation, but it is not harmful, even if sprayed directly in your face. Ask your local cop, if he carries OC, he's been hit with it.


Also, if you watched the whole video, they weren't just sitting there "doing nothing." They were preventing the police from leaving the area. If you notice there is a group of officers completely surrounded by people who refuse to move out of the way. After the people on the sidewalk are sprayed they are moved out of the way and the group of officers rejoins the rest of the officers and they leave the campus.

Sitting still on the ground is NOT the same as "doing nothing." Ask MLK or Ghandi about that one.

[dreamdancer 0]

you're pissing in the wind mate - this video and others have gone viral. the world is watching. the 'occupiers' are winning hands down...

stay away from moving propellers - they bite
blue skies from thai sky adventures
good solid response-provoking keyboarding

[Kennedy 0]

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you're pissing in the wind mate - this video and others have gone viral. the world is watching. the 'occupiers' are winning hands down...

If by winning you mean littering, spreading disease, pissing off the general population, and getting arrested, then yes they are winning.

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[Marinus 0]

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Not at all. I'm just trying to get you to understand how things actually work.

How things work in the US of A you mean.

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Just about every police organization uses the following use of force continuum. *

Officer presense
Verbal commands
OC spray
Hands-on techniques
TASER
Baton
Deadly force

That goes from Tokyo to Berlin to London to NYC to LA.

Because this is BS. In most Western European countries there's usually a lot between verbal commands and spraying people. And spray wouldn't be used on kids sitting passively around. If needed they would be dragged off, that's all.

[CanuckInUSA 0]

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the 'occupiers' are winning hands down.

Exactly what are they winning? The occupiers do not represent the 99% as they claim they do. These occupiers only represent the supporters of Big Labor as well as represent the indoctrinated students from socialist academia.

Are you going to ignore the fact that today Spain rejected the incumbent PSOE for their poor governance these last 8 years. Look all around you, there are plenty of socialist governments that are falling through this funny thing called democracy. So please again what exactly is it that these "Occupy" squatters are winning?

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[Marinus 0]

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You do realize that using pepper spray is far less dangerous to all involved than going hands-on to effect an arrest?

With pepper spray you get a very unpleasant sensation, but it is not harmful, even if sprayed directly in your face. Ask your local cop, if he carries OC, he's been hit with it.

I'm not sure what "going hands on" means, but over here it if you are in the way, a cop will grab you and put you in a better spot. How harmful that is depends on how much you resist your relocation. If you don't resist at all your clothes might get dirty....

Oh, and if you spray me in the face I will feel like shit, but I'll survive. But someone with a heart condition or severe asthma.....

[CanuckInUSA 0]

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Oh, and if you spray me in the face I will feel like shit, but I'll survive. But someone with a heart condition or severe asthma.....

They should probably think twice before they put themselves in harms way at some civil disobedience protest. Cops are not my favorite people, but since when has it ever been wise to resist the police? If you believe in your cause enough where you are willing to put yourself in harms way, then that is a choice you have made for yourself. But if you have some sort of health aliment, maybe you should think twice about attending some event that you know could turn violent.

Darwin strikes again

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[Kennedy 0]

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Because this is BS. In most Western European countries there's usually a lot between verbal commands and spraying people. And spray wouldn't be used on kids sitting passively around. If needed they would be dragged off, that's all.

Prove it. Until you can document something, you're just repeating shit you've heard, and even that is probably not from a law enforcement officer.

I've worked with or trained with officers from several countries, including the UK, and I'm telling you you're full of shit. An officer may choose to use hands instead of spray, usually because they can get away without anything other than the usual report. Spraying someone entails a great deal more bureaucratic nonsense for the same results.

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[dreamdancer 0]

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Because this is BS. In most Western European countries there's usually a lot between verbal commands and spraying people. And spray wouldn't be used on kids sitting passively around. If needed they would be dragged off, that's all.

Prove it. Until you can document something, you're just repeating shit you've heard.

you appear to be the one repeating shit you've heard. have you never heard of personal responsibility...

stay away from moving propellers - they bite
blue skies from thai sky adventures
good solid response-provoking keyboarding

[Marinus 0]

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I've worked with or trained with officers from several countries, including the UK, and I'm telling you you're full of shit.

Well, I doubt that, because you clearly don't understand that spraying unarmed, passive kids with pepper spray ( or whatever you call it) doesn't fly well in the civilized countries on this side of the pond. I think your claim has some truth to it, for some reason, but you don't have the slightest clue of how things here work.

Oh, and your ability to display basic courtesy sucks too.

[Marinus 0]

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But if you have some sort of health aliment, maybe you should think twice about attending some event that you know could turn violent.

Well since this protesters weren't violent, maybe we should only give the able-bodied the right to protest., just to be safe.....

[CanuckInUSA 0]

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Well since this protesters weren't violent, maybe we should only give the able-bodied the right to protest., just to be safe.....

LOL you sure like to twist things don't you. Where in my post did I say anything about who can and can not protest. All I said was, "if you have some predetermined medical condition, maybe you should think twice about attending some protest event that could turn violent". I never said don't attend. You want to risk being pepper sprayed ... or worse, knock yourself out.

These "Occupy" squatters do not represent the 99%. They are either just indoctrinated students of socialist academia who still can not come to grips with reality or they are members of Big Labor who will never accept reality. Life on this planet is not equitable. It never has been and it never will be. Those who believe that life is equitable should not watch this video. It is not a pleasant video. It shows some cruel realities on this planet. Whoever told you life would be easy was clearly lying to you.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[Amazon 7]

You must forgive our "establishment" apologists around here.

You see.. one of the side effects of having their craniums extended to maximum penetration up their rectums... is the ability to only see commies and socialists everywhere.

Its a horrible horrible affliction.. but it does lead to supporting anything that a militaristic force does to foster the further loss of our rights that they blither on and on about... as long as it is only the one or two of their favorite rights, the rest.... not so much.

[kelpdiver 2]

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Well since this protesters weren't violent, maybe we should only give the able-bodied the right to protest., just to be safe.....

LOL you sure like to twist things don't you. Where in my post did I say anything about who can and can not protest. All I said was, "if you have some predetermined medical condition, maybe you should think twice about attending some protest event that could turn violent". I never said don't attend. You want to risk being pepper sprayed ... or worse, knock yourself out.

That was no twisting of your words. You made a pretty clear suggestion that the Bill of Rights only applied to the healthy. OC, CS, Tasers - if these 'non lethal' weapons end up hurting or killing someone because of a preexisting condition, tough shit for the protesters.

That's not how freedom of assembly, or even civil disobedience works. That person is willing to get arrested. They're not volunteering to get killed.

There have been repeated allegations that the pepper spray was used because the cops were surrounded. What horseshit. The people being sprayed were the ones on the inside, refusing to move. Not the observers. And if the cops were put in such a situation of risk, wtf would they be wasting time with pepper spray when the situation would justify pulling out their guns?

Some of these cops are put in a lousy situation. But clearly some cops are having a bit too much fun with it.

[Marinus 0]

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LOL you sure like to twist things don't you.

I didn't twist anything, I only explicitly said what you implied. What you're still implying.

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These "Occupy" squatters do not represent the 99%. They are either just indoctrinated students of socialist academia who still can not come to grips with reality or they are members of Big Labor who will never accept reality. Life on this planet is not equitable. It never has been and it never will be. Those who believe that life is equitable should not watch this video. It is not a pleasant video. It shows some cruel realities on this planet. Whoever told you life would be easy was clearly lying to you.

You don't have to explain to me that life isn't fair. You don't even have to explain to me that the the OWC gang is not very realistic to say it nicely, but that doesn't mean that people displaying stupid ideas should be treated with violence.

[Marinus 0]

Oh Kennedy before I forget:

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I've worked with or trained with officers from several countries, including the UK,

You know these kind of claims have absolutely no weight whatsoever on the internet if you don't back them up with proof. I thought everybody knew that, but apparently you don't. Because on the interwebz everybody is an expert in anything.