DesertAttorney 0 #26 October 16, 2011 QuoteQuoteQuote Actually guns DO kill people. Lots of them. In the USA guns kill more than all other homicide weapons put together. Given this (I shall assume that you have stats to back this claim up), are you suggesting we disregard the right to Due Process, the 2nd Amendment, and the Supreme Court's rulings in DC v. Heller and McDonald v Chicago to solve the problem as you perceive it? I am not trying to set up a straw man. I am paraphrasing what usually is the successive statement to "guns in the USA kill more than all other homicide weapons..." I've spent years arguing the Constitutions on here. To many people, the Constitution should be subservient to stigma, and in order to ensure the safety of the People, the People should be sterilized from prospective risk. The Second, Fourth, Fifth, Sixth, Eighth and Fourteenth Amendments should not be applicable to those "thought to be" risks. Fair enough, Counselor. I shall not pursue this issue further, as ineffectual arguments on the Net ought not be pursued once they are known to be ineffectual. We've all bigger fish to fry in this world than being an Online Rambo, Online Rush Limbaugh, or an Online Obama. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Belgian_Draft 0 #27 October 16, 2011 Quote Actually guns DO kill people. Lots of them. In the USA guns kill more than all other homicide weapons put together. Ok, so we lock up any gun that kills a person and allow the one holding it to go free. After all, it was the gun that did the killing. Makes perfect sense to me. HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kennedy 0 #28 October 16, 2011 QuoteActually guns DO kill people. Lots of them. In the USA guns kill more than all other homicide weapons put together. So do doctors and cars. What's your point? Blame the instrument? Would you blame a Lady Blunt for horrid screeching, or would you blame the one playing? Would you blame the car or the drinks when a drunk driver kills someone? Would you blame the sword in the OP article?witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #29 October 16, 2011 Quote Actually guns DO kill people. Lots of them. In the USA guns kill more than all other homicide weapons put together. lead poisoning, eh? I would have thought the edged weapons would have had a lead, but can't argue with a physics professor. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kennedy 0 #30 October 16, 2011 QuoteQuote Actually guns DO kill people. Lots of them. In the USA guns kill more than all other homicide weapons put together. lead poisoning, eh? I would have thought the edged weapons would have had a lead, but can't argue with a physics professor. The US is not a knife culture. It is a somewhat violent culture, but blades are not the weapon of choice. Knives are deadlier than firearms in that if you are attacked by one you are more likely to be killed, but firearms are used in more homicides each year. The professor has his numbers correct, but his conclusion wrong, as usual. Guns don't cause homicide any more than cameras cause porn or cars cause wrecks.witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
winsor 236 #31 October 16, 2011 QuoteQuoteQuote Actually guns DO kill people. Lots of them. In the USA guns kill more than all other homicide weapons put together. lead poisoning, eh? I would have thought the edged weapons would have had a lead, but can't argue with a physics professor. The US is not a knife culture. It is a somewhat violent culture, but blades are not the weapon of choice. Knives are deadlier than firearms in that if you are attacked by one you are more likely to be killed, but firearms are used in more homicides each year. The professor has his numbers correct, but his conclusion wrong, as usual. Guns don't cause homicide any more than cameras cause porn or cars cause wrecks. Spoons made Rosie O'Donell fat. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #32 October 16, 2011 QuoteGuns don't cause homicide any more than cameras cause porn or cars cause wrecks. I'm curious what your opinion of the Fast and Furious operation is then.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #33 October 16, 2011 QuoteQuoteQuote Actually guns DO kill people. Lots of them. In the USA guns kill more than all other homicide weapons put together. lead poisoning, eh? I would have thought the edged weapons would have had a lead, but can't argue with a physics professor. The US is not a knife culture. It is a somewhat violent culture, but blades are not the weapon of choice. Knives are deadlier than firearms in that if you are attacked by one you are more likely to be killed, but firearms are used in more homicides each year. swings and misses the point. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Belgian_Draft 0 #34 October 16, 2011 QuoteQuoteGuns don't cause homicide any more than cameras cause porn or cars cause wrecks. I'm curious what your opinion of the Fast and Furious operation is then. I own several dozen assorted rifles, pistols, and shotguns. To the best of my knowledge they have not killed a human yet. I say "to the best of my knowledge" because they just may be sneaking out at night without me noticing. Of course, they would have to open the safe from the inside but I'm certain that if they can load, aim, and fire themselves then getting out of a safe would be no problem. I used to attend the Grand American trapshoot every year. Some days there would be 3000+ shotguns being handled. Again, to the best of my knowledge not a single one ever loaded, aimed, and fired itself at a target. They all needed help, even though most of the guns there don't have a safety.HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kennedy 0 #35 October 16, 2011 QuoteQuoteGuns don't cause homicide any more than cameras cause porn or cars cause wrecks. I'm curious what your opinion of the Fast and Furious operation is then. I'm sure I've made myself clear on that. In fact I think I posted the first thread on the topic here on dz.com, though it was still called Gunwalker/Gunrunner at the time. I find it deplorable that federal law enforcement was ordered to allow smugglers to purchase rifles and transport them to cartels in Mexico. I'm not a fan of perjury, either. What does smuggling, preventing investigation, perjury, and arming organized crime have to do with the silly idea that "guns kill"?witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #36 October 17, 2011 QuoteQuoteQuoteGuns don't cause homicide any more than cameras cause porn or cars cause wrecks. I'm curious what your opinion of the Fast and Furious operation is then. I'm sure I've made myself clear on that. In fact I think I posted the first thread on the topic here on dz.com, though it was still called Gunwalker/Gunrunner at the time. I find it deplorable that federal law enforcement was ordered to allow smugglers to purchase rifles and transport them to cartels in Mexico. I'm not a fan of perjury, either. What does smuggling, preventing investigation, perjury, and arming organized crime have to do with the silly idea that "guns kill"? Either guns can or can't kill a person. If you don't think guns can kill a person, then you should have no issue whatsoever with what was done. Personally, I think that's the wrong way to go, but it's your argument.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #37 October 17, 2011 Quote If you don't think guns can kill a person, then you should have no issue whatsoever with what was done. with all the hoops we must jump through to legally purchase a gun, we shouldn't have any issues whatsoever with the Feds facilitating the sales to drug runners? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #38 October 17, 2011 QuoteQuote If you don't think guns can kill a person, then you should have no issue whatsoever with what was done. with all the hoops we must jump through to legally purchase a gun, we shouldn't have any issues whatsoever with the Feds facilitating the sales to drug runners? So . . . the problem you have is that you're jealous?quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Belgian_Draft 0 #39 October 17, 2011 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteGuns don't cause homicide any more than cameras cause porn or cars cause wrecks. I'm curious what your opinion of the Fast and Furious operation is then. I'm sure I've made myself clear on that. In fact I think I posted the first thread on the topic here on dz.com, though it was still called Gunwalker/Gunrunner at the time. I find it deplorable that federal law enforcement was ordered to allow smugglers to purchase rifles and transport them to cartels in Mexico. I'm not a fan of perjury, either. What does smuggling, preventing investigation, perjury, and arming organized crime have to do with the silly idea that "guns kill"? Either guns can or can't kill a person. If you don't think guns can kill a person, then you should have no issue whatsoever with what was done. Personally, I think that's the wrong way to go, but it's your argument. Just when I thought the arguments here in SC had set a new record for stupidity, you go and blow that idea right out of the water. Of course guns can't kill. But they are a tool that can be used to kill. So are knives, swords, hammers, screwdrivers, automobiles, airplanes, etc. Golf clubs can't hit a golf ball, but they can be used to do so.HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #40 October 17, 2011 QuoteQuoteQuote If you don't think guns can kill a person, then you should have no issue whatsoever with what was done. with all the hoops we must jump through to legally purchase a gun, we shouldn't have any issues whatsoever with the Feds facilitating the sales to drug runners? So . . . the problem you have is that you're jealous? hey, you used "whatsoever." Avoid absolutes if you don't want to be called for them, esp given your personal posting history. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wolfriverjoe 1,523 #41 October 17, 2011 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteGuns don't cause homicide any more than cameras cause porn or cars cause wrecks. I'm curious what your opinion of the Fast and Furious operation is then. I'm sure I've made myself clear on that. In fact I think I posted the first thread on the topic here on dz.com, though it was still called Gunwalker/Gunrunner at the time. I find it deplorable that federal law enforcement was ordered to allow smugglers to purchase rifles and transport them to cartels in Mexico. I'm not a fan of perjury, either. What does smuggling, preventing investigation, perjury, and arming organized crime have to do with the silly idea that "guns kill"? Either guns can or can't kill a person. If you don't think guns can kill a person, then you should have no issue whatsoever with what was done. Personally, I think that's the wrong way to go, but it's your argument. Wow. Of course guns can be used to kill. But the important words in that sentence are "can be used". It isn't the gun that kills, it's the person using the gun. Hammers don't pound nails, wrenches don't turn bolts, brooms don't sweep floors. They are all used by a person to do those things. You have made it pretty clear in other threads that you don't like the idea of mentally unbalanced people being allowed to have guns. There has been a good amount of debate on that. The problem I have with Gunwalker/F&F is that guns were deliberately placed in the hands of people known to be willing to kill by BATFE agents and a federal prosecutor. There was a cover story that they were allowing the guns to be sold in order to get to the "big fish" while there was no means whatsoever to track those weapons once they entered Mexico."There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kennedy 0 #42 October 17, 2011 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteGuns don't cause homicide any more than cameras cause porn or cars cause wrecks. I'm curious what your opinion of the Fast and Furious operation is then. I'm sure I've made myself clear on that. In fact I think I posted the first thread on the topic here on dz.com, though it was still called Gunwalker/Gunrunner at the time. I find it deplorable that federal law enforcement was ordered to allow smugglers to purchase rifles and transport them to cartels in Mexico. I'm not a fan of perjury, either. What does smuggling, preventing investigation, perjury, and arming organized crime have to do with the silly idea that "guns kill"? Either guns can or can't kill a person. If you don't think guns can kill a person, then you should have no issue whatsoever with what was done. Personally, I think that's the wrong way to go, but it's your argument. What kind of post is that, Paul? I've personally seen guns used to kill humans. Look at the top of this post. I clear said they do not cause homicide. What were you thinking? If you thought you'd found a poorly worded argument and wanted to be a smartass in pointing it out, then good for you. I enjoy dry wit and sharp tongue. The problem here is you didn't have one and failed miserably. So have you got anything to add?witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #43 October 17, 2011 QuoteSo have you got anything to add? Yeah . . . the entire argument of "guns don't kill people" is specious.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Trafficdiver 8 #44 October 17, 2011 QuoteQuoteSo have you got anything to add? Yeah . . . the entire argument of "guns don't kill people" is specious. A gun has never gotten pissed off over a drug deal gone bad then shot someone. It takes a human to squeeze the trigger. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Belgian_Draft 0 #45 October 17, 2011 QuoteQuoteQuoteSo have you got anything to add? Yeah . . . the entire argument of "guns don't kill people" is specious. A gun has never gotten pissed off over a drug deal gone bad then shot someone. It takes a human to squeeze the trigger. I don't think he understands why.HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #46 October 17, 2011 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteSo have you got anything to add? Yeah . . . the entire argument of "guns don't kill people" is specious. A gun has never gotten pissed off over a drug deal gone bad then shot someone. It takes a human to squeeze the trigger. I don't think he understands why. Oh I absolutely understand why some people think it's a good argument, it's just that I don't. If you make the argument that "guns don't kill people" then you're forced to take that argument to the conclusion of "atomic weapons don't kill people." My guess is, you can't really think for a minute that every country on earth should be allowed to have atomic weapons . . . can you? And here's the thing, you can't even use the argument that they should only be used by "sane" countries either, because of the thousands of nuclear weapons ever made, the only two that have ever been used against people, well . . . you get the drift.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coreece 190 #47 October 17, 2011 QuoteMy guess is, you can't really think for a minute that every country on earth should be allowed to have atomic weapons . . . can you? I can think for hours everyday about how to protect every country from atomic weapons if every country had atomic weapons....Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #48 October 17, 2011 QuoteQuoteMy guess is, you can't really think for a minute that every country on earth should be allowed to have atomic weapons . . . can you? I can think for hours everyday about how to protect every country from atomic weapons if every country had atomic weapons.... Yep, it's called M.A.D. and it's worked well for well over half a century. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #49 October 17, 2011 QuoteYep, it's called M.A.D. and it's worked well for well over half a century. Nope. Think again. It only works with super powers that can actually do it.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #50 October 17, 2011 QuoteQuoteYep, it's called M.A.D. and it's worked well for well over half a century. Nope. Think again. It only works with super powers that can actually do it. As I said, it has worked well for over 1/2 a century. The fear that a victim may have a gun is also a deterrent to crime. Not saying it works everytime any more than putting people in jail works. But imagine the crime rate if we didn't punish people by putting them in jail. Now imagine the crime rate if a criminal knew for sure his victim was unarmed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
