Disney confiscates Mickey Mouse's shotgun

[quade 4]

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Ok how would you feel if every government banned the word "nigger" from being published, read, downloaded or otherwise communicated as part of the book?

I'm completely against government censorship. You can check every single time it has ever been a topic on this forum and you'll see my views on it are completely consistent.

That said, this isn't government censorship. It's a company doing what it thinks it has to do to sell it's own product. And let's make no mistake about it, it IS their product and always has been. They didn't buy it from anyone and are now making unauthorized changes; they created it,, they own it, they can do whatever the hell they want to with it.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[Belgian_Draft 0]

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Ok how would you feel if every government banned the word "nigger" from being published, read, downloaded or otherwise communicated as part of the book?

I'm completely against government censorship. You can check every single time it has ever been a topic on this forum and you'll see my views on it are completely consistent.

That said, this isn't government censorship. It's a company doing what it thinks it has to do to sell it's own product. And let's make no mistake about it, it IS their product and always has been. They didn't buy it from anyone and are now making unauthorized changes; they created it,, they own it, they can do whatever the hell they want to with it.

For once you are absolutely correct. Congratulations!
But it is still censorship. They are just doing it to themselves.

HAMMER:
Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a
kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the
object we are trying to hit.

[sacex250 0]

I haven't seen the video, but it just sounds funnier with the broom instead of the gun, anyway.

It's all been said before, no sense repeating it here.

[jakee 1,571]

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Agreed on all points. After all, I never said censorship was always bad and nobody asked.

You did and I did.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[jakee 1,571]

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The people at Disney who made the changes are not the same people who originally wrote and produced the cartoon.

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If they were, would it still be censorship?

Yes.

Two further questions, then:

A) Why did you point out that the owners were not the creators if it makes no difference to the point you were making?

B) Do you have a problem with Disney's actions?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[rehmwa 2]

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For once you are absolutely correct. Congratulations!
But it is still censorship. They are just doing it to themselves.

congratulations - you just took the word censorship and, by pissing and moaning about the definition of it rather than talking about the content of the thread - you've pretty much made the word completely pointless

now - we can return to why Disney's choice is shortsighted, stupid and blind.

I call their editorial choice by a new word - "fizdiggering"

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[Belgian_Draft 0]

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Agreed on all points. After all, I never said censorship was always bad and nobody asked.

You did and I did.

Really? Where?

HAMMER:
Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a
kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the
object we are trying to hit.

[Belgian_Draft 0]

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The people at Disney who made the changes are not the same people who originally wrote and produced the cartoon.

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If they were, would it still be censorship?

Yes.

Two further questions, then:

A) Why did you point out that the owners were not the creators if it makes no difference to the point you were making?

B) Do you have a problem with Disney's actions?

A) Because, to me, the author or originator is changing his own creation to (hopefully) reflect their own ideas and beliefs. Somebody else changing the work is altering the original intent and idea of the artist/creator, possibly going against ideals held by the author/creator.

B) Yes.

HAMMER:
Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a
kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the
object we are trying to hit.

[Belgian_Draft 0]

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For once you are absolutely correct. Congratulations!
But it is still censorship. They are just doing it to themselves.

congratulations - you just took the word censorship and, by pissing and moaning about the definition of it rather than talking about the content of the thread - you've pretty much made the word completely pointless

now - we can return to why Disney's choice is shortsighted, stupid and blind.

I call their editorial choice by a new word - "fizdiggering"

Uh, no. Sorry. I called it censorship. Other here needed help understanding just what censorship is. It was not just a case of a techinical detail but of the very basic definition and idea of censoring.

HAMMER:
Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a
kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the
object we are trying to hit.

[jakee 1,571]

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Agreed on all points. After all, I never said censorship was always bad and nobody asked.

You did and I did.

Really? Where?

44, 45

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[jakee 1,571]

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A) Because, to me, the author or originator is changing his own creation to (hopefully) reflect their own ideas and beliefs. Somebody else changing the work is altering the original intent and idea of the artist/creator, possibly going against ideals held by the author/creator.

But you did so in a discussion (you started) about whether it was censorship by your definition, not whether it was OK.

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B) Yes.

So why didn't you say so to start with? We could have been talking about that instead.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[Belgian_Draft 0]

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Agreed on all points. After all, I never said censorship was always bad and nobody asked.

You did and I did.

Really? Where?

44, 45

44 was your post, not mine.
I'm not sure what you see in 45 that says i think censorship is always bad. Care to explain?

HAMMER:
Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a
kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the
object we are trying to hit.

[Belgian_Draft 0]

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A) Because, to me, the author or originator is changing his own creation to (hopefully) reflect their own ideas and beliefs. Somebody else changing the work is altering the original intent and idea of the artist/creator, possibly going against ideals held by the author/creator.

But you did so in a discussion (you started) about whether it was censorship by your definition, not whether it was OK.

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B) Yes.

So why didn't you say so to start with? We could have been talking about that instead.

A) I'm failing to understand what the point is you are trying to make with the first question. Or maybe there is no point? And, also, it's not my definition. It is Merriam-Webster's. Their dictionary is well excepted by a few people around he world.

B) Nobody asked? Yep, I guess that's it.

HAMMER:
Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a
kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the
object we are trying to hit.

[jakee 1,571]

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Agreed on all points. After all, I never said censorship was always bad and nobody asked.

You did and I did.

Really? Where?

44, 45

44 was your post, not mine.

Duh. Of course it is.

I said you did and I did. You didn't specify which you were questioning.

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I'm not sure what you see in 45 that says I think censorship is always bad. Care to explain?

You said "doesn't make it right. It is still censorship." You are implicitly contrasting 'censorship' with 'right' - something you've been doing throughout the thread, despite your claim that censorship isn't bad.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[jakee 1,571]

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A) I'm failing to understand what the point is you are trying to make with the first question.

It's not a question, it's a statement. If all you were talking about was whether or not it was censorship (under your definition), then the introduction of the author into the discussion is an irrelevant non-sequitur. The fact that you brought it up as if it had any bearing on the censorship/non-censorship debate just shows that you're not following the meaning that you yourself apply to it.

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B) Nobody asked? Yep, I guess that's it.

Nobody asked about your opinion of dictionaries either.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[Belgian_Draft 0]

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You said "doesn't make it right. It is still censorship." You are implicitly contrasting 'censorship' with 'right' - something you've been doing throughout the thread, despite your claim that censorship isn't bad.

Oh, ok....so you feel that just because I said "doesn't make it right" that I believe "does make it wrong". Sorry if you got confused. It may come as a shock but I am a bit more open minded than that and understand that each case is different. I have never intentionally implied that censorship is always bad. My only intent was to show that regardless of whether we agree with the change, Disney's action was still censorship. Others seem to feel it is only censorship if they don't agree with it.

HAMMER:
Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a
kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the
object we are trying to hit.

[jakee 1,571]

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You said "doesn't make it right. It is still censorship." You are implicitly contrasting 'censorship' with 'right' - something you've been doing throughout the thread, despite your claim that censorship isn't bad.

Oh, ok....so you feel that just because I said "doesn't make it right" that I believe "does make it wrong".

The way you wrote it presented a choice between being right and being censorship. Why were you even talking about right? If all you were doing was trying to show that it was censorship, regardless of whether censorship is good or bad, then 'right' would never have entered the discussion, neither would the original creators, neither would mere copywrite owners, neither would Uncle Tom's Cabin...

If you were trying to talk about censorship without involving moral judgement, then you have gone about it in a very confused and muddled fashion.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[dks13827 3]

This ( PC ) is why Tarzan movies disappeared for many many years... heck, those are still pretty good movies !

[Belgian_Draft 0]

No, you have just tried to make far more of the discussion than what was there. It was very simple: I called Disney's actions censorship. You and one or two others didn't agree. I proved you wrong by posting the definition as found in a well respected and accepted dictionary. You and others didn't like being proved wrong so you start squirming.
Accept the fact you were wrong and get on with life.

HAMMER:
Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a
kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the
object we are trying to hit.

[jakee 1,571]

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No, you have just tried to make far more of the discussion than what was there.

No, you're trying to disown what you've written.

In fact, if we take what you're saying now at face value I have no idea why you joined in the discussion in the first place. If you weren't attatching any moral judgement to censorship then your question to Kallend was nothing but a meaningless 'gotcha'.

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I proved you wrong by posting the definition as found in a well respected and accepted dictionary.

By parsing and dissecting it to the nth degree. That doesn't get you a meaning.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[sacex250 0]

Here's what happens when you try to shoot a gun at Mickey Mouse.

Smith & Wesson no match for a mouse

It's all been said before, no sense repeating it here.

[Belgian_Draft 0]

I joined the discussion because I nbelieve this is a case of censorship that is BAD and a poster was saying it was ok.

As far as parsing the definition of "censorship" to the nth degree......really?? Going by the first and foremost definition listed in what is arguably one of the most accepted and respected dictionaries in the world is "parsing and dissecting"? Hell, what Disney did is a perfect example of censorship. I thought you, of all people, could understand a simple definition from a dictionary. I guess I was wrong. My apologies.
If you still believe it is not censorship, then tell us why you think that way? How does it not fit the definition? You're going to have to do some "parsing and dissecting" to make that work out.

HAMMER:
Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a
kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the
object we are trying to hit.

[jakee 1,571]

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I joined the discussion because I nbelieve this is a case of censorship that is BAD and a poster was saying it was ok.

Ok, so it was not your only intent to show that regardless of whether we agree with the change, Disney's action was still censorship. You really are confused.

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I thought you, of all people, could understand a simple definition from a dictionary.

I understand that, over time, dictionary definitions spread. They start to incorporate all the ways that, rightly or wrongly, people use the word and if you poick on all the little bits round the edges you can end up making a word mean damn near whatever you want it to mean Which starts to defeat the object of it being a word in the first place.

But whatever, maybe you're right. Maybe the janitor who paints over the graffiti in the public johns can put 'professional censor' on his CV.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[Belgian_Draft 0]

Wow. You really need to learn how to accept the fact that you can be wrong from time to time, regardless of how educated you may be. You were wrong. Accept it, learn from it, and move on.

HAMMER:
Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a
kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the
object we are trying to hit.

[DSE 5]

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We have several Looney tunes compilations. At the introduction is none other than Whoopie Goldberg. She comments that the Looney Tunes cartoons are being presented unedited despite the things in them that are racist or otherwise offensive. She explains that the portrayals were wrong then and wrong now, but to simply cut them out is to ignore facets of our history that if ignored, can be more easily repeated.

Yep. The issue as I see it is not the right of artists to use their artistic freedom to alter their own works or update them. They can do that if they want.

What I find distasteful is the altering of a work because of political correctness. Would people prefer that "Huck Finn" be altered to remove the character Nigger Jim, or should we leave it as is so that future generations will be able to understand what things were like at that time in history? Should we re-write "Catcher in the Rye" to clean it up without all that sex, cussing, smoking and drinking? Should we leave Milton's "Paradise Lost" as is so that we can appreciate a 350-year-old classic poem, or should we update it for the 21st century and insert lots of dragons, magic crystals and kung-fu fighting?

Give Mickey Mouse back his shotgun, and leave history alone.

If the original author of "Paradise Lost," "Huckleberry Finn," etc want to change their books to reflect current times...great. But those books were social commentaries on society at the time.
Mickey Mouse is a living, breathing entity and if his owners want to reflect current social attitudes...it's well within their right.
As Paul said...someone at Disney decided that seeing Mickey with a broom is a lot more sellable to children today, than Mickey with a shotgun.
Personally, I think we should allow kids to see the drawings of Pompeii in their original forms too. But these are banned already. So is this one. But historically, they're significant, and as entertaining as Mickey Mouse...