RonD1120 62 #26 October 9, 2011 Apparently, someone convinced you that the American pie is finite. It isn't, it's infinite. All you have to do is show up, work hard and save wisely.Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Belgian_Draft 0 #27 October 9, 2011 Quote Apparently, someone convinced you that the American pie is finite. It isn't, it's infinite. All you have to do is show up, work hard and save wisely. Say what???? You expect me to work???? FUCK THAT! HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #29 October 9, 2011 QuoteApparently, someone convinced you that the American pie is finite. It isn't, it's infinite. All you have to do is show up, work hard and save wisely. Actually, that's not true either.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Belgian_Draft 0 #30 October 9, 2011 QuoteQuoteApparently, someone convinced you that the American pie is finite. It isn't, it's infinite. All you have to do is show up, work hard and save wisely. Actually, that's not true either. No, it's not infinite. But for all practical reasons in this discussion, it is close enough.HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #31 October 9, 2011 QuoteQuoteQuoteApparently, someone convinced you that the American pie is finite. It isn't, it's infinite. All you have to do is show up, work hard and save wisely. Actually, that's not true either. No, it's not infinite. But for all practical reasons in this discussion, it is close enough. I see. But if the discussion was "Those damn immigrants come to the US and take our jobs" it would be different? The truth is the economy and jobs are neither a zero sum game nor an infinite resource. Further, you wouldn't want it to be. As a zero sum game it would 100% guarantee the failure of a significant percentage of the population. If it were an infinite resource then there would be no value in money. The truth is somewhere in between where the economy rises and falls as do jobs and the money supply. The truth is that currently there is NOT a job for everyone that wants one. They simply do not exist.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Belgian_Draft 0 #32 October 9, 2011 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteApparently, someone convinced you that the American pie is finite. It isn't, it's infinite. All you have to do is show up, work hard and save wisely. Actually, that's not true either. No, it's not infinite. But for all practical reasons in this discussion, it is close enough. I see. But if the discussion was "Those damn immigrants come to the US and take our jobs" it would be different? The truth is the economy and jobs are neither a zero sum game nor an infinite resource. Further, you wouldn't want it to be. As a zero sum game it would 100% guarantee the failure of a significant percentage of the population. If it were an infinite resource then there would be no value in money. The truth is somewhere in between where the economy rises and falls as do jobs and the money supply. The truth is that currently there is NOT a job for everyone that wants one. They simply do not exist. The papers are full of "Help Wanted" ads for anything from menial labor to highly skilled positions. Until those ads disappear, there is a job for those who want one. Thus, for all intents and purposes OF THIS DISCUSSION using the word "infinite" is acceptable since right now there are more jobs than there are people who want one. Please try to accept the gist of the discussion and not let your attempts to look intelligent reveal your true self.HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airdvr 210 #33 October 9, 2011 Are you saying that you know more about how to fix the US than Mr. Jobs, or that people like Mr. Jobs are the problem?Please don't dent the planet. Destinations by Roxanne Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #34 October 9, 2011 QuoteThus, for all intents and purposes OF THIS DISCUSSION using the word "infinite" is acceptable since right now there are more jobs than there are people who want one. Nonsense. Sheer and utter nonsense.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Belgian_Draft 0 #35 October 9, 2011 QuoteQuoteThus, for all intents and purposes OF THIS DISCUSSION using the word "infinite" is acceptable since right now there are more jobs than there are people who want one. Nonsense. Shear and utter nonsense. The please explain, ye All-Knowing One, why those jobs are left unfilled? There are jobs available in every part of the country, it's not a localized issue.HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #36 October 9, 2011 QuoteQuoteQuoteThus, for all intents and purposes OF THIS DISCUSSION using the word "infinite" is acceptable since right now there are more jobs than there are people who want one. Nonsense. Shear and utter nonsense. The please explain, ye All-Knowing One, why those jobs are left unfilled? There are jobs available in every part of the country, it's not a localized issue. Jobs are listed for a variety of reasons and only one of them is to actually hire somebody. FREQUENTLY, jobs are listed that don't actually exist. I know this is difficult for most people to wrap their heads around, but it's 100% true. Companies are NOT hiring.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RonD1120 62 #37 October 9, 2011 Quote Companies are NOT hiring. When I got stranded in Taos, NM in 1976 I had a MA and no money. I asked an Apache Indian, Ron White Cloud, where I could find a job. He tipped his hat back on his head and let out a long loud laugh. Then he looked me in the eye and said, "There are no jobs in Taos. You have to learn to make your own work." Survival is the responsibility of the individual as long as he is able bodied. I lived in Taos for about 4.5 years.Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bakerjan 0 #38 October 9, 2011 Quote Look at Germany...does not involve itself in foreign wars, just to keep ppl employed thru the industrial-military complex... Achtung! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_Armed_Forces_casualties_in_Afghanistan Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Belgian_Draft 0 #39 October 9, 2011 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteThus, for all intents and purposes OF THIS DISCUSSION using the word "infinite" is acceptable since right now there are more jobs than there are people who want one. Nonsense. Shear and utter nonsense. The please explain, ye All-Knowing One, why those jobs are left unfilled? There are jobs available in every part of the country, it's not a localized issue. Jobs are listed for a variety of reasons and only one of them is to actually hire somebody. FREQUENTLY, jobs are listed that don't actually exist. I know this is difficult for most people to wrap their heads around, but it's 100% true. Companies are NOT hiring. Bullshit. I got a call just last week from a major equipment manufacturer looking to hire welders. Experienced preferred but they will train. The jobs are there for those who actually WANT a job.HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #40 October 9, 2011 QuoteBullshit. I got a call just last week from a major equipment manufacturer looking to hire welders. Experienced preferred but they will train. The jobs are there for those who actually WANT a job. Nope. Not even close. Just because you have one apocryphal example of one specific company doesn't mean anything. Unless you can come up with 6.2 MILLION jobs, your argument is silly. http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.nr0.htmquade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
christelsabine 1 #41 October 9, 2011 Quote Quote Look at Germany...does not involve itself in foreign wars, just to keep ppl employed thru the industrial-military complex... Achtung! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_Armed_Forces_casualties_in_Afghanistan Attention, mon ami! UN-mandate, ISAF ........... See a difference, there? a**** dudeist skydiver # 3105 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Belgian_Draft 0 #42 October 9, 2011 QuoteQuoteBullshit. I got a call just last week from a major equipment manufacturer looking to hire welders. Experienced preferred but they will train. The jobs are there for those who actually WANT a job. Nope. Not even close. Just because you have one apocryphal example of one specific company doesn't mean anything. Unless you can come up with 6.2 MILLION jobs, your argument is silly. http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.nr0.htm Silly? Only if you are naive enough to believe that all unemployed actually want to work. Come back to the table when you have real numbers of those who want a job. Until then, I have legions of unfilled job openings to back up my argument.HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
champu 1 #43 October 10, 2011 QuoteUnfortunately, designing things won't keep Americans employed. It is a one-time endeavor!!! Trolololol... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #44 October 10, 2011 Quote Jobs are listed for a variety of reasons and only one of them is to actually hire somebody. FREQUENTLY, jobs are listed that don't actually exist. I know this is difficult for most people to wrap their heads around, but it's 100% true. Companies are NOT hiring. First statement is quite true. 10 years ago, when Google was a small company, they kept posting a lot of job reqs they had no intention of filling. And most civil organization (gov) must list all promotions as available jobs, and even interview, though the job has already been filled. OTOH, your second statement is clearly false. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #45 October 10, 2011 QuoteQuote Jobs are listed for a variety of reasons and only one of them is to actually hire somebody. FREQUENTLY, jobs are listed that don't actually exist. I know this is difficult for most people to wrap their heads around, but it's 100% true. Companies are NOT hiring. First statement is quite true. 10 years ago, when Google was a small company, they kept posting a lot of job reqs they had no intention of filling. And most civil organization (gov) must list all promotions as available jobs, and even interview, though the job has already been filled. OTOH, your second statement is clearly false. You're right. What was I thinking. Of course across the entire country there were 103,000 people hired in September for the 6,200,000 people that have been out of a job and are looking for work. So your chances of actually landing a job in September was roughly 1 in 60. My god, that really IS a job for everyone! Hurray!quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Belgian_Draft 0 #46 October 10, 2011 Up until two months ago I was looking for someone to come into the shop after normal hours and clean equipment, sweep floors, carry out trash, clean restrooms, etc. It took me SIX MONTHS to find one of those 6 million "unemployed" who was willing to do menial unskilled work for $12/hr plus benefits. Want to guess again how many of those 6 million are honestly looking for work? Not very fucking many.HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #47 October 10, 2011 QuoteUp until two months ago I was looking for someone to come into the shop after normal hours and clean equipment, sweep floors, carry out trash, clean restrooms, etc. It took me SIX MONTHS to find one of those 6 million "unemployed" who was willing to do menial unskilled work for $12/hr plus benefits. Want to guess again how many of those 6 million are honestly looking for work? Not very fucking many. My guess is there was something else in the mix as well that you're either not saying or you don't know about. Hard to say without knowing more, but I can make a few wild guesses.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #48 October 10, 2011 QuoteCompanies are NOT hiring. Nonsense. Sheer and utter nonsense.My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Belgian_Draft 0 #49 October 10, 2011 QuoteQuoteUp until two months ago I was looking for someone to come into the shop after normal hours and clean equipment, sweep floors, carry out trash, clean restrooms, etc. It took me SIX MONTHS to find one of those 6 million "unemployed" who was willing to do menial unskilled work for $12/hr plus benefits. Want to guess again how many of those 6 million are honestly looking for work? Not very fucking many. My guess is there was something else in the mix as well that you're either not saying or you don't know about. Hard to say without knowing more, but I can make a few wild guesses. And that is all they would be.HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GeorgiaDon 380 #50 October 10, 2011 QuoteWant to guess again how many of those 6 million are honestly looking for work? Not very fucking many. Your comments seem to imply that all jobs are equivalent (IOW "a job is a job"). People who are looking for work should take the first thing that is available, regardless of training, pay, location, etc. Otherwise, they are not "honestly looking for work". I am not looking for work, but let's say I was for the sake of example. I have invested a lot of time and money in my education (BSc, Master's, PhD, five years of postdoctoral work, 15 years working in higher education and biomedical research). Is it unreasonable that I would look for work that uses the training I have invested all this time and effort to obtain? Is it unreasonable that I would look for a job that pays me for the skills I have worked hard to develop? Am I being dishonest if I pass over minimum-wage unskilled labor while seeking a position in biotech or higher education? At the moment, there are a few areas of the US where the employment situation is not so dire. Perhaps I could find a job in the energy sector in North Dakota. But, I have a lot of money invested in my house in (let's say) California, and if forced to sell to move to North Dakota I would have to accept less money than is owing on the mortgage, and so I would have to declare bankruptcy or have a foreclosure on my credit record. On the other hand, I have enough of a "rainy day fund" saved to survive for another six months or so, and I have good reason to believe that biotech is going to be hiring in my area soon. Am I being "dishonest" by deciding to try to hang on for a while where I am, and not default on my mortgage and uproot the family to move to North Dakota today in hopes of being able to find something once I get there? Your "a job is a job" attitude only applies to unskilled workers who have invested little or nothing in acquiring a specialized skill set, or to those relatively few whose skills are potentially in demand regardless of location (welders such as yourself, and perhaps nurses and truck drivers), and who have no significant financial ties to their community. Although people have always had to be prepared to move to get the top-end jobs, in a healthy economy educated people should not have to move across the country and discard all their training just to find a menial labor job. Don_____________________________________ Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996) “Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
