normiss 892 #101 September 22, 2011 Nah. Just the ones that think killing is right. There should be a list. Sacrificial beings to protect society. The believers can be the token innocents at the cost of killing guilty people. A lottery. We need a lottery. Then stone 'em to death. Saturday nights. City square. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #102 September 22, 2011 Quote It seems very odd to me that an angry, hostile, militant, anti-religious, atheist would feel the need to invoke scripture in an attempt to make their point (used incorrectly/mistranslated...but still...) WRONG.. on quite a few points ... but you go on believing anything you want.... it's far easier that way for you Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #103 September 22, 2011 Quote That's my issue with it as well. Simply based on accusations makes for a very weak case IMO. People lie. AND in way too many cases... it has been shown that members of the police and the prosecution... have done just that LIED so they could make thier case closure stats look good. In the case of the man that Georgia and its citizens just murdered, there was no evidence, most of the eyewitneses recanted and stated for the record that the POLICE had coerced their statements at the time of the original trial. PLUS.. the real murderer of the police officer has gotten away with it... and as one of the "eye witnesses" is laughing at the State of Georgia and all the cops in the case that murdered an innocent man. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jaybird18c 24 #104 September 22, 2011 Quote Quote It seems very odd to me that an angry, hostile, militant, anti-religious, atheist would feel the need to invoke scripture in an attempt to make their point (used incorrectly/mistranslated...but still...) WRONG.. on quite a few points ... but you go on believing anything you want.... it's far easier that way for you What I mean is that there seems to be such disdain for religion and the idea of moral absolutes from atheists yet, when there is an appeal to justice or injustice, God's standard is kept on standby. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 892 #105 September 22, 2011 "moral absolutes"? and religion???? OMG that's funny. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jaybird18c 24 #106 September 22, 2011 Quote Quote That's my issue with it as well. Simply based on accusations makes for a very weak case IMO. People lie. AND in way too many cases... it has been shown that members of the police and the prosecution... have done just that LIED so they could make thier case closure stats look good. In the case of the man that Georgia and its citizens just murdered, there was no evidence, most of the eyewitneses recanted and stated for the record that the POLICE had coerced their statements at the time of the original trial. PLUS.. the real murderer of the police officer has gotten away with it... and as one of the "eye witnesses" is laughing at the State of Georgia and all the cops in the case that murdered an innocent man. Now how do you know all this? Really? Did you study the trial or something? Do you have the same outrage over the white supremacist who dragged a guy to his death who just got put to death in Texas? Maybe you could stage a protest in defense of his rights. How about the rights of that poor guy who got dragged to death? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #107 September 22, 2011 Quote Quote Quote That's my issue with it as well. Simply based on accusations makes for a very weak case IMO. People lie. AND in way too many cases... it has been shown that members of the police and the prosecution... have done just that LIED so they could make thier case closure stats look good. In the case of the man that Georgia and its citizens just murdered, there was no evidence, most of the eyewitneses recanted and stated for the record that the POLICE had coerced their statements at the time of the original trial. PLUS.. the real murderer of the police officer has gotten away with it... and as one of the "eye witnesses" is laughing at the State of Georgia and all the cops in the case that murdered an innocent man. Now how do you know all this? Really? Did you study the trial or something? Do you have the same outrage over the white supremacist who dragged a guy to his death who just got put to death in Texas? Maybe you could stage a protest in defense of his rights. How about the rights of that poor guy who got dragged to death? Perhaps you should read something other than the bloodthirsty right wing religious media controlled outlets that demand revenge at all costs..The white supremecist also has been murdered by the State of Texas... one of the worst offenders of human rights in the Western WORLD. He needed to be sentenced to LIFE in prison without the possibility of parole. And just to make sure... all murderers need to be segregated into units of their fellows who hold life to be so cheap to them!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #108 September 22, 2011 Quote Quote Quote It seems very odd to me that an angry, hostile, militant, anti-religious, atheist would feel the need to invoke scripture in an attempt to make their point (used incorrectly/mistranslated...but still...) WRONG.. on quite a few points ... but you go on believing anything you want.... it's far easier that way for you What I mean is that there seems to be such disdain for religion and the idea of moral absolutes from atheists yet, when there is an appeal to justice or injustice, God's standard is kept on standby. What I want is the complete and utter separation of ALL churches.. from ALL states around this planet. The march of this country towards a melding of our government and the religious WRONG is anathama... and is no different than the Taliban and Afghanistan or the Mullahs and Ayatollahs of the Republic of Iran and their religion/politics melded together. Religion has NO place in governing any country based on thousands of years of abuses... it is just not in their natures.. to show the best of what their religion purports..... with the reality of the visiting the WORST of their respective religions upon their people. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Butters 0 #109 September 22, 2011 Quote ... all murderers need to be segregated into units of their fellows who hold life to be so cheap to them!!! So you're okay with an "innocent" person being murdered in prison by a fellow inmate ... "That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #110 September 22, 2011 Quote Quote ... all murderers need to be segregated into units of their fellows who hold life to be so cheap to them!!! So you're okay with an "innocent" person being murdered in prison by a fellow inmate ... I guess in a prison set up by you or the right wingers.. that would be ok...... Me.... NO Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Butters 0 #111 September 22, 2011 Quote Quote Quote ... all murderers need to be segregated into units of their fellows who hold life to be so cheap to them!!! So you're okay with an "innocent" person being murdered in prison by a fellow inmate ... I guess in a prison set up by you or the right wingers.. that would be ok...... Me.... NO Really? Your previous comments appears to imply it."That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #112 September 22, 2011 Quote Quote Quote Quote ... all murderers need to be segregated into units of their fellows who hold life to be so cheap to them!!! So you're okay with an "innocent" person being murdered in prison by a fellow inmate ... I guess in a prison set up by you or the right wingers.. that would be ok...... Me.... NO Really? Your previous comments appears to imply it. The reality of what our prison system .... that has been set up by you wonderful conservatives who seek revenge..... is what it is.. Perhaps YOU should be supporting reform.. OH WAIT... that is not a conservative thought .... that would imply CHANGES to the revenge system... never mind Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Butters 0 #113 September 22, 2011 Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote ... all murderers need to be segregated into units of their fellows who hold life to be so cheap to them!!! So you're okay with an "innocent" person being murdered in prison by a fellow inmate ... I guess in a prison set up by you or the right wingers.. that would be ok...... Me.... NO Really? Your previous comments appears to imply it. The reality of what our prison system .... that has been set up by you wonderful conservatives who seek revenge..... is what it is.. Perhaps YOU should be supporting reform.. OH WAIT... that is not a conservative thought .... that would imply CHANGES to the revenge system... never mind The prison system wasn't set up by my generation, it was set up by yours. Also, let's not forget that you're the one who voted for the conservative Republican who started us down this path ... not me."That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,594 #114 September 22, 2011 QuoteWhat's my price for catching the truly guilty? I'll answer that with a question of my own: How many innocent people are you willing to sacrifice by freeing murderers so that one innocent person is not executed by the state? 1? 2? 10? And again, how terrible it is that there's no alternative! There must be some smart people involved in running the legal system, can't one of them think of a third option besides freedom or death? (And just so we're clear, you do realise that your rationale is better suited to arguing against due process and the assumption of innocence than it is the death penalty?)Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #115 September 22, 2011 Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote ... all murderers need to be segregated into units of their fellows who hold life to be so cheap to them!!! So you're okay with an "innocent" person being murdered in prison by a fellow inmate ... I guess in a prison set up by you or the right wingers.. that would be ok...... Me.... NO Really? Your previous comments appears to imply it. The reality of what our prison system .... that has been set up by you wonderful conservatives who seek revenge..... is what it is.. Perhaps YOU should be supporting reform.. OH WAIT... that is not a conservative thought .... that would imply CHANGES to the revenge system... never mind The prison system wasn't set up by my generation, it was set up by yours. Also, let's not forget that you're the one who voted for the conservative Republican who started us down this path ... not me. Nope.... this goes back a hell of a lot longer that I have been alive... Hell in my early voting years.. ALL death sentences were commuted... the reason that scumbag in CA with the X on his forhead is still alive rotting away in the penal system. WIKI would be a good place to read and learn... AbolitionismThe death penalty was banned in China between 747 and 759. In Japan, Emperor Saga abolished the death penalty in 818 under the influence of Shinto and it lasted until 1156. Therefore, capital punishment was not executed for 338 years in ancient Japan.[39] In England, a public statement of opposition was included in The Twelve Conclusions of the Lollards, written in 1395. Sir Thomas More's Utopia, published in 1516, debated the benefits of the death penalty in dialogue form, coming to no firm conclusion. More recent opposition to the death penalty stemmed from the book of the Italian Cesare Beccaria Dei Delitti e Delle Pene ("On Crimes and Punishments"), published in 1764. In this book, Beccaria aimed to demonstrate not only the injustice, but even the futility from the point of view of social welfare, of torture and the death penalty. Influenced by the book, Grand Duke Leopold II of Habsburg, famous enlightened monarch and future Emperor of Austria, abolished the death penalty in the then-independent Grand Duchy of Tuscany, the first permanent abolition in modern times. On November 30, 1786, after having de facto blocked capital executions (the last was in 1769), Leopold promulgated the reform of the penal code that abolished the death penalty and ordered the destruction of all the instruments for capital execution in his land. In 2000 Tuscany's regional authorities instituted an annual holiday on November 30 to commemorate the event. The event is commemorated on this day by 300 cities around the world celebrating Cities for Life Day. Peter Leopold II, Grand Duke of Tuscany, by Joseph Hickel, 1769The Roman Republic banned capital punishment in 1849. Venezuela followed suit and abolished the death penalty in 1863 and San Marino did so in 1865. The last execution in San Marino had taken place in 1468. In Portugal, after legislative proposals in 1852 and 1863, the death penalty was abolished in 1867. In the United Kingdom, it was abolished for murder (leaving only treason, piracy with violence, Arson in royal dockyards and a number of wartime military offences as capital crimes) for a five year experiment in 1965 and permanently in 1969, the last execution having taken place in 1964. It was abolished for all peacetime offences in 1998.[40] Abolition occurred in Canada in 1976, in France in 1981, and in Australia in 1973 (although the state of Western Australia retained the penalty until 1984). In 1977, the United Nations General Assembly affirmed in a formal resolution that throughout the world, it is desirable to "progressively restrict the number of offenses for which the death penalty might be imposed, with a view to the desirability of abolishing this punishment".[41] In the United States, Michigan was the first state to ban the death penalty, on May 18, 1846.[42] The death penalty was declared unconstitutional between 1972 and 1976 based on the Furman v. Georgia case, but the 1976 Gregg v. Georgia case once again permitted the death penalty under certain circumstances. Further limitations were placed on the death penalty in Atkins v. Virginia (death penalty unconstitutional for persons suffering from mental retardation) and Roper v. Simmons (death penalty unconstitutional if defendant was under age 18 at the time the crime was committed). Currently, as of March 9, 2011, 16 states of the U.S. and the District of Columbia ban capital punishment, with Illinois the most recent state to ban the practice.[43] Of the states where the death penalty is permitted, California has the largest number of inmates on death row, while Texas has been the most active in carrying out executions (approximately one third of all executions since the practice was reinstated). The latest country to abolish the death penalty for all crimes was Gabon, in February 2010.[44] Human rights activists oppose the death penalty, calling it "cruel, inhuman, and degrading punishment". Amnesty International considers it to be "the ultimate denial of Human Rights".[45] Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Butters 0 #116 September 22, 2011 I wasn't referring to the death penalty, I was referring to the prison system. I was commenting on a statement made by you regarding the prison system and I even used small words ..."That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #117 September 22, 2011 Quote I wasn't referring to the death penalty, I was referring to the prison system. I was commenting on a statement made by you regarding the prison system and I even used small words ... You should have stuck to your usual Blah Blah Blah.... it suits you so well on so many of your points. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Butters 0 #118 September 22, 2011 Quote Quote I wasn't referring to the death penalty, I was referring to the prison system. I was commenting on a statement made by you regarding the prison system and I even used small words ... You should have stuck to your usual Blah Blah Blah.... it suits you so well on so many of your points. You should stick to conversations with your own kind."That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lawrocket 3 #119 September 22, 2011 QuoteThe question then becomes - what's the easiest way to make sure they don't do it again? That's not "revenge" that's simple management of a known and proven risk to society. Execution accomplishes that. So does life in prison with no parole. Execution is a little more reliable. Again agreement but with one caveat - that life in prison with no parole may NOT prevent it. My problem with capital punishment in the US is how it is being used. My personal thought is that capital punishment should be reserved for the worst of the worst - for those people who cannot be trusted not to kill again while living. for example, Clarence Ray Allen - who was executed in 2006. This man arranged for hits to be put out against witnesses who testified against him in a murder trial so that there would be no witnesses if he got a retrial. He was a man whom prison could not stop, and to me was the sort of person that the death penalty could be justifiable. Kill a person while inside prison and execution seems appropriate. But for other crimes, I would prefer to see it abolished. (Ever notice that most serial killers don't get the death penalty because they've killed so many that they plea out so they identify additional victims?) My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Butters 0 #120 September 22, 2011 QuoteQuoteThe question then becomes - what's the easiest way to make sure they don't do it again? That's not "revenge" that's simple management of a known and proven risk to society. Execution accomplishes that. So does life in prison with no parole. Execution is a little more reliable. Again agreement but with one caveat - that life in prison with no parole may NOT prevent it. My problem with capital punishment in the US is how it is being used. My personal thought is that capital punishment should be reserved for the worst of the worst - for those people who cannot be trusted not to kill again while living. Another problem I have is the method of execution. They were on the right track with the Gas Chamber but chose the wrong gas ... they should have used nitrous oxide (and then possibly carbon monoxide)."That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AndyBoyd 0 #121 September 22, 2011 You've got a really mixed up view of the United States criminal justice system. In the broadest terms, the system is set up so that we try to minimize the amount of innocent people who are convicted of crimes. Of course there are always mistakes, and prosecutors overstep sometimes. You seem to think that the system ought to be set up to maximize convictions of the guilty, even if a higher percentage of the innocent are convicted. That is just not the way the system works, and honestly, your suggestions are wrongheaded and un-American. Frankly, your earlier suggestion that we execute innocent people to be sure we execute all the guilty murderers was flat-out bizzare. I have never heard anyone, conservative or liberal or anywhere in between, make such a goofy claim. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Channman 2 #122 September 22, 2011 QuoteExecutions are not murder. BTW, I am opposed to the death penalty. If someone breaks into my home, to rob, plunder and kill, I'm all for the DEATH PENALTY. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 892 #123 September 23, 2011 This sounds familiar ... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterblaster72 0 #124 September 23, 2011 Quote Quote ... especially state sponsored murder..... YMMV I'm currently more concerned with this type of state sponsored murder. Wow, that's some f-d up shit. Be humble, ask questions, listen, learn, follow the golden rule, talk when necessary, and know when to shut the fuck up. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
