Religious beleifs vs. State law

[Coreece 190]

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Walking the walk doesn't necessarily mean that you lead a perfect life, and though I think the Amish sin everyday in their own way, they come pretty close to prefection.

I highly doubt that they are close to perfection. Amish sects have been involved in drug dealing, bootlegging, and other crimes. Some sects allow alcohol. Some years back, an Amish man, who was clearly intoxicated, was allowed to do a tandem at a DZ in this area. I was there. They TM is a good friend of mine. Even though I, and a few others, raised an objection to the jump, it happened anyways. Years ago, when I smoked pot, the Amish were the ones to get it from in PA.. Often saw them in bars outside of Harrisburg.
I think they are no different than anyone else. You'll find good and bad in all sectors of society the world over.

I guess I can't argue with that.

I'll admit that I'm ignorant when it come to the Amish...That's kinda why I want to experience the lifestyle for myself.

I'm known to just go off and do stuff like that.

Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are...

[freethefly 6]

As often as I see them, I always get a kick out of them when I do. Pics are from a parking lot. My truck and a buggy. I really love being at a stop light next to one when on the bike. Kinda weird being on the bike next to a horse on main street.
I sometimes think it would be cool to live without all of the comforts we have. But when I look at my bike, truck, skydive rig, while blasting my stereo I quickly come to my senses. Besides, those people should really write body deodorant into their list of laws.

"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young

[billvon 3,114]

>Pick a freaking black reflective shape . . .

Well, there's a pretty basic physical problem there.

But I agree with the sentiment. It doesn't have to be an orange triangle, it just has to be visible at night.

[quade 4]

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>Pick a freaking black reflective shape . . .

Well, there's a pretty basic physical problem there.

But I agree with the sentiment. It doesn't have to be an orange triangle, it just has to be visible at night.

And 3M makes reflective tape that appears black from any angle day or night except in the case of retro-reflected light.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[Coreece 190]

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As often as I see them, I always get a kick out of them when I do. Pics are from a parking lot. My truck and a buggy. I really love being at a stop light next to one when on the bike. Kinda weird being on the bike next to a horse on main street.
I sometimes think it would be cool to live without all of the comforts we have. But when I look at my bike, truck, skydive rig, while blasting my stereo I quickly come to my senses. Besides, those people should really write body deodorant into their list of laws.

Do you have any pics of Amish chicks? I heard they cook, clean and do the laundry...Imagine that! That would be worth a couple wiffs of B.O...

Maybe I could just make sure I smell really bad so it'll overpower their stink...they're probably used to smelling the donkey's ass anyway.

Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are...

[popsjumper 2]

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It doesn't have to be an orange triangle, it just has to be visible at night.

This is what I was thinking. But there's that one pesky problem of state law requiring the orange triangle. WTF is up with that?

Evidently, a vehicle could have a solid wall of orange reflective tape on it or it could be all arranged to say "Back Off You Stupid Fuck" and it would be no good for state law.


I did notice in pic one of the horse/buggy in the parking lot that the buggy had the triangle.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[popsjumper 2]

It's sad to see you stoop to that level. Leave it to the bozos, eh?

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[Coreece 190]

what man?

If I'm gonna live there, you gotta think about this stuff...

Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are...

[normiss 893]

Care to elaborate?
Because there isn't.
I have a number of black faced reflectors with red and orange substrate reflection.


I think it's more the shape than anything else they have issue with.

[billvon 3,114]

>Care to elaborate?

Sure. We perceive surfaces that reflect very little light as black. You can do tricks (i.e. embedded corner reflectors) but they all have pretty significant drawbacks; if you are rejecting light from anything but a very narrow angle, for example, a car driver might see you and a truck driver might not (too wide an angle between light source and eye.)

That being said, there are a lot of options out there that are not orange triangles if that's the big objection.

[normiss 893]

My commenting to someone else that I believe Ron IS a Christian is insulting?
Wow.
See I know Ron personally...and his beliefs generally show in his demeanor. He's a good guy. I may not agree with his views on some things, but Ron would appear outwardly to be a "good Christian".
I do understand that sometimes the outward appearance of a person is not an accurate indicator of their true personality or being. But still.

I'm not against anyone's religious belief. I just don't share them.How that is insulting I don't get. Probably won't.

I think any government that requires any citizen to use a symbol that person feels is in conflict with their religion is stepping on someone's religious beliefs.
To me that's wrong.

[kelpdiver 2]

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I'd like to see the state work on improving the relations with a religious group. It would certainly go over very well with all involved.
Pick a freaking black reflective shape that IS acceptable to all parties and doesn't insult their religion.

sorry - I don't think their whacky notions should trump public safety. The triangle is established worldwide as a shape for road warnings and drivers are tuned to see it. The risk presented by these horse driven carriages is well established, same as the risk from tractors and other farm equipment. (though in the case of the tractor, the driver behind is the one likely to get most hurt)

The Amish can minimize their interaction with the outside world, but if they want to use public roads, they have to get on board. If they want to pave their own road network on private land to avoid this requirement, fine.

[normiss 893]

Well the buggy lanes didn't help.

[Coreece 190]

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I'm not against anyone's religious belief. I just don't share them.How that is insulting I don't get. Probably won't.

If you don't see how insulting your comment was in a public forum about how someone fucked up their life and will fuck it up again and had to believe in some make believe friend, then ya...I guess you probably won't.

If you were trying to be so honorable, then why not just leave that comment out?

Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are...

[normiss 893]

I don't know, it's your religion.
I was always told to had to admit to sin and that you "fucked up" your life and needed the invisible guy in it to "save yourself".

Just seems silly to me that I would have to present myself as a lowly fuck-up who couldn't exist without a non-being accepting me as a loser.

[freethefly 6]

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It doesn't have to be an orange triangle, it just has to be visible at night.

This is what I was thinking. But there's that one pesky problem of state law requiring the orange triangle. WTF is up with that?

Evidently, a vehicle could have a solid wall of orange reflective tape on it or it could be all arranged to say "Back Off You Stupid Fuck" and it would be no good for state law.


I did notice in pic one of the horse/buggy in the parking lot that the buggy had the triangle.

The buggy in the first pic (same buggy in the second pic), also has running lights along the top and tail lights/flashers at the lower rear. In the second pic, the back of a headlamp can be seen, as well as the flasher (which has a blue lens.) They power the lamps with a car battery. I believe it is a law here in MO. that they be equipped as such for night road use. You don't see a lot of them at night, but when you do, they are hard to see without the orange triangle. Honestly, I much rather their belief be hurt than their bodies. If the issue is the shape of the reflector, it would be in the best interest of the State (monetary wise) to allow an exception for Amish buggies. I would think a lawsuit could be quite costly for the State. The Amish community is ripe with cash.

"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young

[normiss 893]

Excellent perspective and should be satisfying for all involved.

Nice.

[jclalor 12]

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*In Photojournalist voice from Apocalypse now*
Now I know things get heated in this place man, and your saying continues to echo in the winds of history, "it tends to bring out the worst in us." it'll probably happen again sometime in the vortex of this carnal illusion,man, but I'll forgive you and you'll forgive me...we should've been a pair of ragged claws scuttling across floors of silent seas......maybe oneday we'll learn to cool out, man...

[grimmie 186]

I grew up in the middle of Amish country. The buggys are very difficult to see at night, even with the orange triangle on the back.
When my dad was giving me driving tips, lesson one was to always watch for the buggys.
Four years ago I nearly killed an entire family of Amish on Rt 7 by Conneaut, OH. They were fixing a wheel just off to the side, but still half in the lane. The angle of the buggy didn't reflect the triangle.
It was very dark and there were trees overhanging the street.
My wife saw them at the last minute and screamed.
I had skid marks on the road and my britches after just missing them by about a foot.
I wish they would all put tail lights on them. And more reflective gear.

[Coreece 190]

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I don't know, it's your religion.
I was always told to had to admit to sin and that you "fucked up" your life and needed the invisible guy in it to "save yourself".

Just seems silly to me that I would have to present myself as a lowly fuck-up who couldn't exist without a non-being accepting me as a loser.

It's all in one's prespective...

It's quite possible that I've lived a better life than you but still consider it fucked up for reasons you'd never consider.

Do you really think that the Amish believe they fucked up their lives? I don't think so...yet they are still christian.

I'm pretty sure that if they saw our lives they would consider our lives fucked up if they had to judge.

So your ignorance does not excuse the fact that your comments and how you phase them are insulting...but this really isn't about the insults themselves...I understand that's just the way it is. It's gonna happen. It's fun for you. It makes you feel good, yes?

This is about the fact that I find it fun to point out the absolute stupidity of not wanting to insult someone's religion over some stupid shape of a reflector used for public safety but than go ahead and insult them by saying they're fucked up and their silly religion is fucked too...

You may not see that as fucked up, but I do...as you said in the other thread, it's all in one's prespective.

Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are...

[normiss 893]

It's also quite possible I have led a "better" life than you as well. Maybe not. I couldn't be happier with mine.

So all that sin that "gets washed away" when you're "saved" wouldn't be considered "fuck-ups"?

I wouldn't say expressing my thoughts or opinions are fun per se, just a part of the discussion here. We're all allowed our own thoughts no matter whether or not anyone agrees.

I never attacked the Amish for being fucked up as you say, in fact I always admired them and Mennonites as well.
Had a number of very interesting discussions with the ones I was friends with.

I never said religion of any kind was silly - just that I don't believe. I don't see that as fucked up.

YMMV

[jaybird18c 25]

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I don't know, it's your religion.
I was always told to had to admit to sin and that you "fucked up" your life and needed the invisible guy in it to "save yourself".

Just seems silly to me that I would have to present myself as a lowly fuck-up who couldn't exist without a non-being accepting me as a loser.

God' existence has nothing to do with you. God also does not "need" you for anything. That's one of His attributes (Solitude). He did not have to condescend Himself to pay the penalty for those in active rebellion against Him. But He did anyway out of His grace. He is withholding judgment against you currently out of his mercy. God will be glorified either by you repenting, placing your faith in Him, and spending eternity with Him ... or God will be glorified in the judgment and punishment for your sin after you die, and you spending an eternity in hell. Either way, God is holy and "just." But don't think for one second that you're doing God some kind of favor by saying you're sorry and turning to Him. It is commanded (not requested) in Scripture for you to repent and believe.

[normiss 893]

Good for me not believing in said scripture then.

[Coreece 190]

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never attacked the Amish for being fucked up as you say

Your idea of christianity:

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"I fucked up my life, I will fuck up my life again, I believe some make believe person died for me, I open my self to him."

In that same thread you also called God "a dick."

The Amish are christians...do you see how they could be insulted by that...especially the more sensitive ones that get insulted by reflectors?

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never said religion of any kind was silly

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seems silly to me that I would have to present myself as a lowly fuck-up who couldn't exist without a non-being accepting me as a loser.

You have ignorantly reduced christianity to this one arbitrary sentence. This is what you said, this is what you believe...that it's silly.

...and you have the balls to say I lack reading comprehension when it seems you can't even comprehend what you just said a couple posts up?

Now I know we go back and forth like this...I don't mean to bust your balls so much and make you appear to be something you're not based on a few careless comments you've written. I know you're a pretty cool guy and ultimately mean well for everybody...but c'mon dude, you're making it kinda easy for me.

Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are...

[normiss 893]

You're still missing my point.
That is not my idea of christianity, only the accepting of the magic guy.

I seriously doubt many Amish have internet access, even fewer would venture here, so I doubt any would be offended by my statement that accepting the magic guy into your life involves bowing down, demeaning myself to someone that doesn't exist, admit that I have fucked up my life to the point I can't make it without accepting mr magic invisible guy into my being.

Yea, I'd say that's fucked up. YMMV.

I'm guessing you're never going to see my point.
I don't view religion as fucked up, just that whole demeaning bowing down to something that's not there to sort out my being.
That bit I will admittedly never understand.
I'm more than good with that realization.