SkyChimp 0 #1 September 13, 2011 I'm just curious to see who has opinions on the subject of government dictating much of the private sector and eroding a significant part of free enterprise. I am more than disgusted about the law suit filed against Boeing for the production plant opening in South Carolina. I see the House is pushing a new Bill but the Dem controlled Senate is sure to put the brakes on it. Capitalism has worked just fine for the past 235 years in this country. Can we please get the Cash Nazis out of the way of prosperity? http://news.yahoo.com/house-bill-block-case-against-boeing-071805555.html Does anyone else find it funny that we made a SPORT out of an EMERGENCY PROCEDURE?!?! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dreamdancer 0 #2 September 13, 2011 QuoteUS aircraft manufacturer Boeing received at least $5.3bn (£3.3bn) in unfair aid from Washington, the World Trade Organization (WTO) has concluded. The subsidies included money for research and development from the Nasa space agency, a panel of international trade judges has ruled. Last year the WTO said that Boeing's arch rival Airbus had received illegal aid from European governments. The two companies have been at war over state aid for almost six years. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-12925024stay away from moving propellers - they bite blue skies from thai sky adventures good solid response-provoking keyboarding Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,587 #3 September 13, 2011 The problerm is that Boeing (stupidly) said they were moving it to SC to punish the (abusive) union. If they had not said that out loud, and to union officials to boot, the case would have been much, much weaker. But it's against the law to retaliate against someone for belonging to a union. That protection was needed for a long time, when working conditions in far more industries were poor. It takes a long time to change laws, so it's not surprising that law is still on the books. There are still industries where unions are needed (meat packing for many companies comes to mind). It's an organization like many others -- sometimes useful, sometimes not. The aircraft and auto unions appear to have lost sight of the goal of actually producing competitive goods. Wendy P.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #4 September 13, 2011 Quote The problerm is that Boeing (stupidly) said they were moving it to SC to punish the (abusive) union. So, evidently, Free Enterprise and moving is only valid for certain reasons. I'd like a list of valid reasons, please. Quote But it's against the law to retaliate against someone for belonging to a union. Hmmmmm....I can't punish the union? That's a little different than punishing someone for belonging to the union. The union, and its members, will only be happy when the company goes bankrupt and ALL the union members lose their jobs. Freakin' My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,465 #5 September 13, 2011 QuoteCapitalism has worked just fine for the past 235 years in this country. The current state of your economy does not seem to support that statement. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
marks2065 0 #6 September 13, 2011 QuoteQuoteCapitalism has worked just fine for the past 235 years in this country. The current state of your economy does not seem to support that statement. Take out the government spending and regulations from the epa it would be great. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BIGUN 1,483 #7 September 14, 2011 QuoteQuoteCapitalism has worked just fine for the past 235 years in this country. The current state of your economy does not seem to support that statement. A recession is not a crisis of capitalism; it is a requirement.Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CanuckInUSA 0 #8 September 14, 2011 QuoteA recession is not a crisis of capitalism; it is a requirement. Recessions are a natural cycle of the market economy. But the current crisis the world finds itself in are two fold. 1) Government debts need to be reigned in. 2) Jobs are being permanently lost in North America and Europe. The solution is definitely NOT more government. Unfortunately under free enterprise, profits have trumped logic. Profits are great when you have consumers. But there will not be any consumers when the general public has no income. We need governments to get their act in gear in terms of their debt levels and we need some sanity to be restored in free markets and stop shipping all the jobs off to India and China. Sounds easy, unfortunately it's not. Try not to worry about the things you have no control over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BIGUN 1,483 #9 September 14, 2011 No argument.Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DrewEckhardt 0 #10 September 14, 2011 QuoteI'm just curious to see who has opinions on the subject of government dictating much of the private sector and eroding a significant part of free enterprise. I am more than disgusted about the law suit filed against Boeing for the production plant opening in South Carolina. I see the House is pushing a new Bill but the Dem controlled Senate is sure to put the brakes on it. Capitalism has worked just fine for the past 235 years in this country. We haven't had pure capitalism and free enterprise in this country for a long time. Citizens of my city didn't like our cable provider. In a capitalist society we'd just buy product from another one that'd be willing to take our money in exchange for what we valued; although in our corporatist country there was a government granted monopoly we voted to not renew. Unfortunately that was overturned because federal law makes it illegal to stop doing business with a cable franchise without first holding public hearings in which the program content (like people want the cartoon and sci-fi networks full-time instead of six shopping channels) cannot be a reason not to renew. I just bought a home and got a mortgage. Although I paid origination fees to a privately owned bank and they'll be collecting additional profits from the payments for loan servicing, there's a 90% chance that loan will be sold to or guaranteed by a government sponsored enterprise that's assuming the risk. With capitalism and free enterprise the banks would look at how credit-worthy I was, charge an interest rate appropriate for the risk, and I'd probably have paid less for my home (with a smaller down payment) because covering the risks would have required higher interest rates (requiring lower prices for a given payment) and capped appraised values. I set aside money for metaphorical rainy days and would be happy to pay less for health insurance with a bigger deductible where the insurer doesn't need to charge more to cover for people who don't. With a free market I would. With special tax treatment exempting employer provided health insurance from federal income tax, state income tax, both halves of Social security, and both halves of Medicare it'd need to be 54% less expensive to cost the same. This ignores that the resulting market demographics + risk + cost can cause individual insurance to cost more. It also ignores Obama Care which requires us to buy insurance from private companies regardless of cost with a minimum coverage standard including routine maintenance (like if the states made us buy car insurance that covered oil changes). With capitalism poorly run businesses fail. With corporatism poorly run large businesses get rescued. Look at AIG, GMC, and friends. There's also the socialist US military funneling tax dollars to defense contractors like Boeing with the side benefit of directly employing nearly 1.5 million active duty personal plus 1.5 million in reserve. While defense is good, other first-world countries with our landmass and border length (Canada, eh?) get by $22 billion compared to our $663B. That sort of overage is about serving corporatist interests not defense. Etc. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,465 #11 September 14, 2011 QuoteA recession is not a crisis of capitalism; it is a requirement. I agree. But I don't think this is a recession. Unfortunately, I think it is the fall of the American Empire and the rise of the Chinese Empire. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BIGUN 1,483 #12 September 15, 2011 I'm not so sure you're not right. Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyChimp 0 #13 September 15, 2011 QuoteThe problerm is that Boeing (stupidly) said they were moving it to SC to punish the (abusive) union. If they had not said that out loud, and to union officials to boot, the case would have been much, much weaker. But it's against the law to retaliate against someone for belonging to a union. That protection was needed for a long time, when working conditions in far more industries were poor. It takes a long time to change laws, so it's not surprising that law is still on the books. There are still industries where unions are needed (meat packing for many companies comes to mind). It's an organization like many others -- sometimes useful, sometimes not. The aircraft and auto unions appear to have lost sight of the goal of actually producing competitive goods. Wendy P. I understand what you are saying Wendy and you have valid points. Retaliation is unacceptable. I have a friend who works at the BMW plant in South Carolina and he said that he had family that worked for Ford up in Michigan for years who told him that they wished they could roll the BMW quality off their assembly line like he is. I do think that a company is free to set up shop in any city they wish. 60 years ago BF Goodrich, Goodyear, and Firestone set up shop in Akron, OH. Heck, my high school was Firestone High in Akron. GoDaddy.com set up shop in Arizona. I just think that the core freedom of opening up a business shouldn't be interfered with. Does anyone else find it funny that we made a SPORT out of an EMERGENCY PROCEDURE?!?! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyChimp 0 #14 September 15, 2011 Quote The union, and its members, will only be happy when the company goes bankrupt and ALL the union members lose their jobs. Freakin' Now that is hitting the nail between the eyes. I remember in 2009 when GM was given the bailout money (to keep the union contracts afloat no doubt). Since when is someone with a GED worth $85.00 per hour to install car seats?? Does anyone else find it funny that we made a SPORT out of an EMERGENCY PROCEDURE?!?! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
marks2065 0 #15 September 15, 2011 Quote Quote The union, and its members, will only be happy when the company goes bankrupt and ALL the union members lose their jobs. Freakin' Now that is hitting the nail between the eyes. I remember in 2009 when GM was given the bailout money (to keep the union contracts afloat no doubt). Since when is someone with a GED worth $85.00 per hour to install car seats?? It is not a minor exaggeration, this is what was actually happening, along with paying people while they were laid off for up to 11 months. The union demands and strong arming of the companies was actually the major cause of the fall of GM and many other companies. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyChimp 0 #16 September 15, 2011 QuoteQuoteA recession is not a crisis of capitalism; it is a requirement. I agree. But I don't think this is a recession. Unfortunately, I think it is the fall of the American Empire and the rise of the Chinese Empire. I think this can be traced back to the home. Education in the home and education systems in general here in the US are failing miserably. I went to cross the Mayport Ferry here in Jacksonville, FL today and the girl collecting the money took 3 minutes to count my change of $15.00 after I gave her a $20 dollar bill. When she gave me my change it was $13.00 and I said "you shorted me two bucks", then she snatched it from my hand and took another minute to count it again before I snapped at her and said "you owe me two dollars..... it's not that difficult". Needless to say, I finally got my correct change after she scratched me with her 4" talons for finger nailed and continued to the next car while smacking her gum. Jacksonville Port Authority (JaxPort) only has her employed because of their union and trying to fire some so incompetent would take an act of God because race or gender would be thrown on the table as the cause. Let's not pay attention to the fact that the girl can't even use the simple element of arithmetic. This is why I hate government involved and always protecting the unions. Unions many years ago were good to protect workers......... now they are just one entitlement after another and one fraud after another. Does anyone else find it funny that we made a SPORT out of an EMERGENCY PROCEDURE?!?! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #17 September 15, 2011 QuoteSince when is someone with a GED worth $85.00 per hour to install car seats?? You've really got to get away from the idea that a piece of paper is the sole determinant of a person's value. It's elitist and just silly. Some of the richest people on the planet don't have a single day of college to their names. Meanwhile, some of the most useless people I've ever met had MBAs.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyChimp 0 #18 September 16, 2011 QuoteQuoteSince when is someone with a GED worth $85.00 per hour to install car seats?? You've really got to get away from the idea that a piece of paper is the sole determinant of a person's value. It's elitist and just silly. Some of the richest people on the planet don't have a single day of college to their names. Meanwhile, some of the most useless people I've ever met had MBAs. I'll give you that Quade...... but if we don't pay people at McDonald's $85.00 per hour to go "BEEP BEEP" "The fries are ready" then the same applies to the Joe running an impact wrench on the assembly line. Does anyone else find it funny that we made a SPORT out of an EMERGENCY PROCEDURE?!?! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #19 September 16, 2011 Boeing news: National legislation attempting to over-rule the National labor relations board. House Passes Bill Restricting Labor Board http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/16/business/house-approves-bill-restricting-nlrb.html?partner=rss&emc=rss House passes bill targeting Boeing labor case http://www2.scnow.com/news/2011/sep/15/house-passes-bill-targeting-boeing-labor-case-ar-2414649/ Maybe the goobermint trying to inject some common sense into this issue?My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
StreetScooby 5 #20 September 16, 2011 Quote Maybe the goobermint trying to inject some common sense into this issue? Senate is not going to bring it to vote...We are all engines of karma Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
