Feds warn of small airplane terror threats

[nanook 1]

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I am surprised nobody has tried this yet. Lob a bunch of motor shells into a packed Football or Baseball stadium. 60 seconds of concentrated attacks

Nope. Too many drunken tailgaters around to set up the tube. You haven't seen anything till you have volunteered a San Diego Charger/Oakland Raiders game.

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"The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine" - Abraham Lincoln

[kallend 2,146]

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1. WTC took more than a G4.

True. Then again, all it had was fuel, not explosives.

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2. OKC did a nice job of showing you can just park a small truck on the street outside, with not much money at all.

And as a result, pretty much every high value target building in the country no longer allows trucks to be parked next to them. I doubt you can find any Federal building that isn't protected against this sort of attack now.

Suicide bombers don't need to park.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[CanuckInUSA 0]

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Football stadiums are so 1977.

Well that was just Hollywood. I am talking the real enchilada here. But if football stadiums are passe, how about doing a NASCAR race and take care of two problems at the same time.

But there is only one NASCAR race going on at one time. Target NCAA football and you have 40-50 targets all with varying degrees of TV coverage.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[kallend 2,146]

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Football stadiums are so 1977.

Well that was just Hollywood. I am talking the real enchilada here. But if football stadiums are passe, how about doing a NASCAR race and take care of two problems at the same time.

But there is only one NASCAR race going on at one time. Target NCAA football and you have 40-50 targets all with varying degrees of TV coverage.

Truck in the Lincoln Tunnel at rush hour.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[quade 4]

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Suicide bombers don't need to park.

No, but they do need to get close enough to the building to do damage. Bollards prevent that.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[DougH 270]

Last time I went to Disney World we drove our car all of the way to the parking lot with no check. The only thing they checked on my person was my wallet, to make sure I had enough money to fleece.

"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P

[quade 4]

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Last time I went to Disney World we drove our car all of the way to the parking lot with no check. The only thing they checked on my person was my wallet, to make sure I had enough money to fleece.

Right. And how many feet away were you parked from the castle? My guess is you were at least 1/4 to 1/2 mile away at Disneyland in California and perhaps several miles away at Disney World in Florida.

I might not know much about some things, but I know quite a bit about that particular issue.

Cars blowing up in the parking lots are of no use to the terrorists. None. What they need are photos that will put fear into the hearts of people. Blowing up landmarks does that. Not parking lots.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[DougH 270]

That is a good point, we took a tram to get closer to the park. I think I remember parking spots that were right outside the ticket gates, maybe that was my imagination, but I thought they were Handicap and VIP spots.

"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P

[quade 4]

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That is a good point, we took a tram to get closer to the park. I think I remember parking spots that were right outside the ticket gates, maybe that was my imagination, but I thought they were Handicap and VIP spots.

There is some parking inside what is called "the berm," but that is all either executives or deliveries. Delivery trucks are checked by bomb sniffing dogs and gone over at outside checkpoints before they can even approach the gates to inside parking. Executives are briefly checked at the gates. It didn't always used to be that way. 9/11 changed quite a bit.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[Calvin19 0]

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I'm sure terrorists have considered lots of things. The article also said there's no credible threat.

Of course. This article is nothing new. Just a replogger that needed to fill a page.

[JohnRich 4]

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"Terrorists have considered renting private planes"
Ever tried to rent a Twin Otter?

Here you go:
http://www.google.com/search?q=rent+lease+dhc-6+twin+otter

[JohnRich 4]

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Let's see, how does the number of terrorist attacks carried out in private planes loaded with explosives since 9/11/2001 compare with the number of truck and car bomb attacks in the same time period?

Let's see, in America we've had FOUR planes hijacked by terrorists and crashed at great loss of life.
And America has had ONE big truck bomb blow up a building with great loss of life.
You were saying?

[JohnRich 4]

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Only a moron would devote a lot of resources to counter an almost non-existent threat when there are plenty of real threats.

Only a moron would discount the possibility of a threat just because it hasn't happened before.
It seems to me that this what you guys like to call Pres. Bush for not seeing 9/11/01 coming.

But then, you're really not concerned about America here, are you. You're concerned that some rules might be passed which might inconvenience you and your enjoyment of your private airplane. This is personal with you. It's okay to heap all kinds of restrictions upon firearms ownership in the name of safety, but by gosh, don't let the government restrict your personal airplane!

[chutem 0]

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Only a moron would devote a lot of resources to counter an almost non-existent threat when there are plenty of real threats.

Only a moron would discount the possibility of a threat just because it hasn't happened before.
It seems to me that this what you guys like to call Pres. Bush for not seeing 9/11/01 coming.

But then, you're really not concerned about America here, are you. You're concerned that some rules might be passed which might inconvenience you and your enjoyment of your private airplane. This is personal with you. It's okay to heap all kinds of restrictions upon firearms ownership in the name of safety, but by gosh, don't let the government restrict your personal airplane!

How much extra per jump ticket are you willing to spend to fight off this level of threat? Are you willing to put up with the TSA at every dropzone?

James

[chutem 0]

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Last time I went to Disney World we drove our car all of the way to the parking lot with no check. The only thing they checked on my person was my wallet, to make sure I had enough money to fleece.

Right. And how many feet away were you parked from the castle? My guess is you were at least 1/4 to 1/2 mile away at Disneyland in California and perhaps several miles away at Disney World in Florida.

I might not know much about some things, but I know quite a bit about that particular issue.

Cars blowing up in the parking lots are of no use to the terrorists. None. What they need are photos that will put fear into the hearts of people. Blowing up landmarks does that. Not parking lots.

400 terrorists each carrying 1lb could get it to the castle at either park.

James

[wolfriverjoe 1,523]

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...Cars blowing up in the parking lots are of no use to the terrorists. None. What they need are photos that will put fear into the hearts of people. Blowing up landmarks does that. Not parking lots.

There are a lot of landmarks that are "truck accessible". Golden Gate Bridge, George Washington Bridge, Mackinac Bridge, Chesapeake Bay Bridge/Tunnel, Chicago Skyway, and so on. Except for the Golden Gate, I've been across all of the above with a large truck without being checked in any way, ever.

If they really wanted to put fear in our hearts, simultaneously blowing up major intersections around a large city would completely paralyze it. They could damn near completely shut down Chicago with 6 small to medium sized truck bombs (Cube van sized, not Oklahoma City sized).

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[quade 4]

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400 terrorists each carrying 1lb could get it to the castle at either park.

I think you underestimate the difficulties of doing that.

Assuming you've coordinated 400 people to do so, customers get bagged searched before going through main gates. Catching just one of them would bring out more security than you can possibly imagine. Not the standard fat security guards you're used to seeing, but the well armed members of the police and FBI that essentially live there since 9/11.

I'm thinking that pretty well stops it, but lets say you've got 400 extraordinarily lucky people and they've all managed to get through. How, exactly, do you think these 400 people are going to gather in one place and drop off their individual one pound loads to create the 400 pound pile without being noticed?

Not going to happen.

There are far more likely scenarios. All much easier to carry out.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[quade 4]

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...Cars blowing up in the parking lots are of no use to the terrorists. None. What they need are photos that will put fear into the hearts of people. Blowing up landmarks does that. Not parking lots.

There are a lot of landmarks that are "truck accessible". Golden Gate Bridge, George Washington Bridge, Mackinac Bridge, Chesapeake Bay Bridge/Tunnel, Chicago Skyway, and so on. Except for the Golden Gate, I've been across all of the above with a large truck without being checked in any way, ever.

If they really wanted to put fear in our hearts, simultaneously blowing up major intersections around a large city would completely paralyze it. They could damn near completely shut down Chicago with 6 small to medium sized truck bombs (Cube van sized, not Oklahoma City sized).

And I have no problem with considering that a legitimate threat as well. It doesn't, however, negate the threat by air.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[SkyChimp 0]

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Let's see, how does the number of terrorist attacks carried out in private planes loaded with explosives since 9/11/2001 compare with the number of truck and car bomb attacks in the same time period?

I have to agree with the professor on this.... VBIED's have far more usage than hijacked planes for terror attacks. If you sift through the LOTI you will see this to be true. See below:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_Of_Terrorist_Incidents

Does anyone else find it funny that we made a SPORT out of an EMERGENCY PROCEDURE?!?!

[chutem 0]

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400 terrorists each carrying 1lb could get it to the castle at either park.

I think you underestimate the difficulties of doing that.

Assuming you've coordinated 400 people to do so, customers get bagged searched before going through main gates. Catching just one of them would bring out more security than you can possibly imagine. Not the standard fat security guards you're used to seeing, but the well armed members of the police and FBI that essentially live there since 9/11.

I'm thinking that pretty well stops it, but lets say you've got 400 extraordinarily lucky people and they've all managed to get through. How, exactly, do you think these 400 people are going to gather in one place and drop off their individual one pound loads to create the 400 pound pile without being noticed?

Not going to happen.

There are far more likely scenarios. All much easier to carry out.

I think this was Kallends point from the start.


I was thinking trash containers as collection points in the 400 1lbers scenario.

I'll live with the risk as far as small GA planes are concerned. I'm not ready to allow the TSA any more pwer in my life.

James

[futuredivot 0]

Some dick wrote a new story about the 'barefoot' bandit hitting on terror concerns-to keep from typing it all again-here's my letter to him
"Mr Lohr,

I was disappointed in your July 14th story implying that small aircraft
such as those involved in the "Barefoot Bandit" case are a security
threat. Any such comment should include the real threat capacity of
such aircraft. The article should note that in 2009 956,846 cars were
stolen and nearly all, if not all, have a cargo capacity greater than
the aircraft that you are warning about. I have never heard of a
general aviation piston airplane being used as a weapon of terror. I
suspect that this is primarily due to the fact that the damage potential
from that tactic just isn't great enough to garner the reactions and
publicity that terrorist groups crave. My wife's Honda Accord can
deliver more material to a target than a Cessna 172.

Please research the data. Talk to aviation experts that don't pay their
bills by overstating the dangers of aviation. Tell your story, but
tell the whole story.



Regards,

You are only as strong as the prey you devour

[wolfriverjoe 1,523]

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...Cars blowing up in the parking lots are of no use to the terrorists. None. What they need are photos that will put fear into the hearts of people. Blowing up landmarks does that. Not parking lots.

There are a lot of landmarks that are "truck accessible". Golden Gate Bridge, George Washington Bridge, Mackinac Bridge, Chesapeake Bay Bridge/Tunnel, Chicago Skyway, and so on. Except for the Golden Gate, I've been across all of the above with a large truck without being checked in any way, ever.

If they really wanted to put fear in our hearts, simultaneously blowing up major intersections around a large city would completely paralyze it. They could damn near completely shut down Chicago with 6 small to medium sized truck bombs (Cube van sized, not Oklahoma City sized).

And I have no problem with considering that a legitimate threat as well. It doesn't, however, negate the threat by air.

The problem is that there is a finite amount of resources to deal with these threats.

Do we focus on the threats that are the most threatening, or on the ones that are the scariest?

Worldwide, VBIEDs are a far, far more common threat. But the pictures from New York on Sept 11 strike far more fear into people, even though it is the only time it has happened.

And there was one small plane crashed into a building (without explosives on board) in 2010. It just started a fire. And I don't recall very much fear-mongering after that incident. Mainly because it was pretty clear that it wasn't very much of an event.

It seems that the "threat by air" is far more psychological than tactical.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[sacex250 0]

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It seems that the "threat by air" is far more psychological than tactical.

And it's working marvelously for the FBI and Homeland Security. Just look over there at John and Quade shaking in their boots.

It's all been said before, no sense repeating it here.

[kallend 2,146]

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Let's see, how does the number of terrorist attacks carried out in private planes loaded with explosives since 9/11/2001 compare with the number of truck and car bomb attacks in the same time period?

Let's see, in America we've had FOUR planes hijacked by terrorists and crashed at great loss of life.
And America has had ONE big truck bomb blow up a building with great loss of life.
You were saying?

What part of the word "private" don't you understand?

The USA is NOT the world, nor even "America".

Did you even bother to read the OP, or are you just being disagreeable for the sake of it?

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[kallend 2,146]

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...Cars blowing up in the parking lots are of no use to the terrorists. None. What they need are photos that will put fear into the hearts of people. Blowing up landmarks does that. Not parking lots.

There are a lot of landmarks that are "truck accessible". Golden Gate Bridge, George Washington Bridge, Mackinac Bridge, Chesapeake Bay Bridge/Tunnel, Chicago Skyway, and so on. Except for the Golden Gate, I've been across all of the above with a large truck without being checked in any way, ever.

If they really wanted to put fear in our hearts, simultaneously blowing up major intersections around a large city would completely paralyze it. They could damn near completely shut down Chicago with 6 small to medium sized truck bombs (Cube van sized, not Oklahoma City sized).

And I have no problem with considering that a legitimate threat as well. It doesn't, however, negate the threat by air.

So how many more TSA agents do you wish the government to hire in order to protect against every threat, no matter how small?

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.