Mosque Ground Zero (again?)

[vortexring 0]

Whilst our Muslim friends are rather sensitive and often quick to go off on one at the slightest slur on Islam; like the Danish cartoonist for example, why aren't they so sensitive to denounce acts of mass murder committed in the name of Islam.

And why are they so insensitive to build a Mosque on the sight of a mass murder committed by Muslims?

And why on earth are there people in America who support this???



Here's a link of someone asking the same questions who can ask far better than I can:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjS0Novt3X4

Edit: Apparantly Pat's asking the question of how tasteless can it be; opening it on the 10th anniversary of Sept 11th: "...I'm surprised they haven't also organised a 757 flypast...".

Bad voodoo man...

'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.'

[quade 4]

I hadn't heard anything about this in quite awhile. I thought the issue was pretty much over with, but I guess Hannity was decided to make it an issue again.

Sigh . . .

http://www.newshounds.us/2011/08/26/hannity_turns_911_memorial_controversy_into_attack_on_imam_rauf_mayor_bloomberg.php

Lame.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[vortexring 0]

Quote

I hadn't heard anything about this in quite awhile. I thought the issue was pretty much over with, but I guess Hannity was decided to make it an issue again.

Sigh . . .

http://www.newshounds.us/2011/08/26/hannity_turns_911_memorial_controversy_into_attack_on_imam_rauf_mayor_bloomberg.php

Lame.

I wasn't too sure if it was going ahead myself. A Muslim friend did mention it's been cancelled, because, let's be frank here, the whole idea is ludicrous.

So has it?

I hope so.

'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.'

[BillyVance 35]

Here's a few ideas to drive the mosque away - open up a pork processing factory, stripper club and liquor store next door.

"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban

[vortexring 0]

That'd probably just encourage them...

'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.'

[billvon 3,132]

>why aren't they so sensitive to denounce acts of mass murder committed in the
>name of Islam.

Same reason Christians didn't denounce the Norwegian terrorist who killed over 70 people in the name of Christ, I suppose.

>And why are they so insensitive to build a Mosque on the sight of a mass murder
>committed by Muslims?

I imagine they figured that if people didn't mind the other two mosques there, they wouldn't mind a third.

>And why on earth are there people in America who support this?

You'd have to ask people in Manhattan. Most of them support this project. Of course, what do they know about the horrors of 9/11?

[vortexring 0]

Christians didn't denounce Breivik? I missed that. I also missed that he was motivated to do so entirely by Christianity.

And do the majority of people from Manhattan support this project? I'm amazed. No, in fact, I'm astounded. Could you please provide any links that support such a bizarre statement?

Thanks. Hope you're well btw.

'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.'

[JohnRich 4]

Quote

Whilst our Muslim friends... why aren't they so sensitive to denounce acts of mass murder committed in the name of Islam.

You must not have heard. Forum members here just don't fear muslim terrorists any more. American Christians are the new boogieman to fear. Get with the program!

[vortexring 0]

Shit...! Okay!! Cut me some slack Jack - it's been awhile!

'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.'

[billvon 3,132]

>Christians didn't denounce Breivik? I missed that.

Yeah, you also missed Muslims denouncing 9/11. I figured if you missed one you must have missed the other.

>I also missed that he was motivated to do so entirely by Christianity.

You mean the guy who planned a martyr's mass right before he went off on his killing spree? The guy fighting to oppose Islam and restore European Christianity? The guy with a 1516 page manifesto exhorting Christians to violence? You may have overlooked that.

>And do the majority of people from Manhattan support this project? I'm amazed. No, in
>fact, I'm astounded. Could you please provide any links that support such a bizarre
>statement?

http://www.dnainfo.com/20100701/manhattan/manhattanites-support-mosque-near-ground-zero-poll-finds

=========================
Manhattanites Support Mosque Near Ground Zero, Poll Finds
July 1, 2010 9:17am
By Julie Shapiro

LOWER MANHATTAN — Manhattan voters support plans for mosque near Ground Zero, though residents of the outer boroughs are opposed, a new poll found.

The Quinnipiac University poll, released Thursday morning, found that 46 percent of Manhattanites support the 13-story mosque and community center, called Cordoba House. Thirty-six percent of Manhattan voters oppose the proposal and 18 percent are undecided.
==========================

[vortexring 0]

Quote

>Christians didn't denounce Breivik? I missed that.

Yeah, you also missed Muslims denouncing 9/11. I figured if you missed one you must have missed the other.

>I also missed that he was motivated to do so entirely by Christianity.

You mean the guy who planned a martyr's mass right before he went off on his killing spree? The guy fighting to oppose Islam and restore European Christianity? The guy with a 1516 page manifesto exhorting Christians to violence? You may have overlooked that.

>And do the majority of people from Manhattan support this project? I'm amazed. No, in
>fact, I'm astounded. Could you please provide any links that support such a bizarre
>statement?

http://www.dnainfo.com/20100701/manhattan/manhattanites-support-mosque-near-ground-zero-poll-finds

=========================
Manhattanites Support Mosque Near Ground Zero, Poll Finds
July 1, 2010 9:17am
By Julie Shapiro

LOWER MANHATTAN — Manhattan voters support plans for mosque near Ground Zero, though residents of the outer boroughs are opposed, a new poll found.

The Quinnipiac University poll, released Thursday morning, found that 46 percent of Manhattanites support the 13-story mosque and community center, called Cordoba House. Thirty-six percent of Manhattan voters oppose the proposal and 18 percent are undecided.
==========================

Thanks Bill!

I'm sure we'll probably go into this particular debate in greater depth shortly, but there's something I do wish to ask prior to that.

Are you in favour of the mosque?

'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.'

[mnealtx 0]

Quote

>I also missed that he was motivated to do so entirely by Christianity.

You mean the guy who planned a martyr's mass right before he went off on his killing spree? The guy fighting to oppose Islam and restore European Christianity? The guy with a 1516 page manifesto exhorting Christians to violence? You may have overlooked that.

You mean the guy that admired the Freemasons (secularist group) and John Stuart Mill (another secularist)?

The guy that said: "I'm not going to pretend I'm a very religious person, as that would be a lie"?

You may have overlooked that.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[billvon 3,132]

>Are you in favour of the mosque?

Honestly I am not in favor of it nor do I oppose it. If they want to do it, and the building's owners are OK selling it to them, it's their decision. (And as someone else commented, yes, if the guy next door wants open a porn n pork emporium, he should be able to do that too.)

I am very much against government prohibiting a specific religion from building houses of worship in an area, though.

[billvon 3,132]

>You mean the guy that admired the Freemasons

Of course. I see you hew to the Bill O'Reilly school of thought.

Anders Breivik wasn't a Christian terrorist, even though he was a Christian, killed over 70 people to (in his mind) protect his religion in a carefully planned attack, exhorted other Christians to kill Muslims, arranged a Christian mass before his (planned) martyrdom, and claimed to be a member of a militant Christian organization, the Knights Templar.

On the other hand, the Fort Hood killer was a textbook example of Islamic terrorism because he printed up some cards.

Coming up next - Breivik wasn't a conservative because he once rode in a Prius.

[mnealtx 0]

Quote

I see you hew to the Bill O'Reilly school of thought.

And I see you hew to the Keith Olbermann school.

Quote

On the other hand, the Fort Hood killer was a textbook example of Islamic terrorism because he printed up some cards.

Since you mention it... did Breivik yell 'For the Glory of God' during the attack? You know, like how Hasan yelled 'Allahu Akbar' during his?

Have another neck brace.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[vortexring 0]

Quote

>Are you in favour of the mosque?

Honestly I am not in favor of it nor do I oppose it. If they want to do it, and the building's owners are OK selling it to them, it's their decision. (And as someone else commented, yes, if the guy next door wants open a porn n pork emporium, he should be able to do that too.)

I am very much against government prohibiting a specific religion from building houses of worship in an area, though.

But that's such a non-answer mate. I do recognise your view of what the government can prohibit, but surely you've an opinion over this regarding the matter

Mosque on ground zero - or no mosque on ground zero?

And please include your thinking over your decision - I know it's not a simplistic answer over one or the other, of course it's not so black or white.

And neither do I want to 'win' this chat or point score. I'm just genuinely curious as to why people might support the mosque on such a particular site!

'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.'

[quade 4]

Quote

Mosque on ground zero - or no mosque on ground zero?

1) It's not a mosque.
2) It's not at ground zero. It's several blocks away.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[vortexring 0]

Quote

Quote

Mosque on ground zero - or no mosque on ground zero?

1) It's not a mosque.
2) It's not at ground zero. It's 12 blocks away.

Pfff...

Then that's the argument dead and buried I guess. Cheers Quade - nice to see you're still so boring btw ;)

But.

Why has it changed from being a mosque? Why is it now 12 blocks away?

'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.'

[quade 4]

Quote

Quote

Quote

Mosque on ground zero - or no mosque on ground zero?

1) It's not a mosque.
2) It's not at ground zero. It's 12 blocks away.

Pfff...

Then that's the argument dead and buried I guess. Cheers Quade - nice to see you're still so boring btw ;)

But.

Why has it changed from being a mosque? Why is it now 12 blocks away?

Ya caught me. I made a typo and hit two adjacent keys at the same time or nearly so. So what was going to be a 2 came out as 12. However, it's actually more like 2.5 so I changed it to "several."

As for it being a mosque or not . . . it was NEVER going to be a mosque. NEVER. People just started saying that to get other people riled up. A MOSQUE is a very specific structure and what has been proposed from day one on the project was not a mosque, nor has it ever been a mosque.

It would be a bit like saying your local YMCA is a cathedral.

OK, I guess if some know nothing wants to call it that, it's his right, but that doesn't make a YMCA into a cathedral.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[Andy9o8 3]

Quote

Mosque on ground zero - or no mosque on ground zero?

Yes. The religion of Islam did not destroy the WTC, any more than Christianity murdered those Norwegians. The WTC was destroyed by terrorists who were Muslim, and who perverted their faith by claiming that they were committing their crimes in the name of Islam. Most Muslims utterly reject that claim.

This wouldn't be like building a new Japanese consulate next to the site of the USS Arizona Memorial. The Arizona was destroyed by the government of Japan, and the consulate represents the government of Japan.

On the other hand, if private Japanese-Americans wanted to construct a Shinto shrine in Honolulu a few blocks away from Pearl Harbor, where any other religion's house of worship might be allowed, then that should be fine, and any objecting bigots should pound sand.

[mnealtx 0]

Quote

Quote

Quote

Quote

Mosque on ground zero - or no mosque on ground zero?

1) It's not a mosque.
2) It's not at ground zero. It's 12 blocks away.

Pfff...

Then that's the argument dead and buried I guess. Cheers Quade - nice to see you're still so boring btw ;)

But.

Why has it changed from being a mosque? Why is it now 12 blocks away?

Ya caught me. I made a typo and hit two adjacent keys at the same time or nearly so. So what was going to be a 2 came out as 12. However, it's actually more like 2.5 so I changed it to "several."

As for it being a mosque or not . . . it was NEVER going to be a mosque. NEVER. People just started saying that to get other people riled up. A MOSQUE is a very specific structure and what has been proposed from day one on the project was not a mosque, nor has it ever been a mosque.

It would be a bit like saying your local YMCA is a cathedral.

OK, I guess if some know nothing wants to call it that, it's his right, but that doesn't make a YMCA into a cathedral.

So, we won't be hearing anything else about the Mt. Soledad military memorial being a religious site? Good.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[quade 4]

Quote

So, we won't be hearing anything else about the Mt. Soledad military memorial being a religious site? Good.

You mean the one with the 29 foot tall cross so large and dominantly visible for miles around it's shown on charts as an aviation landmark? Yeah, how could anyone confuse that with a religious facility?

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[mnealtx 0]

Quote

Quote

So, we won't be hearing anything else about the Mt. Soledad military memorial being a religious site? Good.

You mean the one with the 29 foot tall cross so large and dominantly visible for miles around it's shown on charts as an aviation landmark? Yeah, how could anyone confuse that with a religious facility?

Oh, I don't know....maybe the lack of religious service space - you know, unlike the "Muslim YMCA" in Manhattan.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[quade 4]

Quote

Quote

Quote

So, we won't be hearing anything else about the Mt. Soledad military memorial being a religious site? Good.

You mean the one with the 29 foot tall cross so large and dominantly visible for miles around it's shown on charts as an aviation landmark? Yeah, how could anyone confuse that with a religious facility?

Oh, I don't know....maybe the lack of religious service space - you know, unlike the "Muslim YMCA" in Manhattan.

Oh, Mike, you're so cute when you talk about things like this . . . and also so adorably uninformed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mount_Soledad_cross_controversy#Mt._Soledad_Easter_Cross_or_War_Memorial.3F

Now, if you want to make the argument that the old Burlington Coat Factory at the site proposed has been used for half a century as a religious site, you -might- have some basis for a parallel argument.

But, of course, that would just be a silly argument on your part.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[mnealtx 0]

Quote

Quote

Quote

Quote

So, we won't be hearing anything else about the Mt. Soledad military memorial being a religious site? Good.

You mean the one with the 29 foot tall cross so large and dominantly visible for miles around it's shown on charts as an aviation landmark? Yeah, how could anyone confuse that with a religious facility?

Oh, I don't know....maybe the lack of religious service space - you know, unlike the "Muslim YMCA" in Manhattan.

Oh, Mike, you're so cute when you talk about things like this . . . and also so adorably uninformed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mount_Soledad_cross_controversy#Mt._Soledad_Easter_Cross_or_War_Memorial.3F

I'm aware of the controversy, Paul - why did you think I mentioned it in the first place?

If Park 51 isn't a mosque due to the reasons you posted, then the Mt. Soledad War Memorial isn't a religious site either. You don't get to have it both ways.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706