Toy Gun Buy-Back

[JohnRich 4]

News:

Newark buys back guns - toy guns

"An unusual buyback program took place in Newark on Monday for toy guns.

"Several dozen children clutching water pistols and cap guns were lined up to exchange their fake weapons for books and non-violent toys..."

Full story: http://abclocal.go.com/wabc/story?section=news/local/new_jersey&id=8319944

[Skyrad 0]

Stupid idea.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[freethefly 6]

I would think that an opinion depends on the type of community that such a program is in. Certainly, an area where 'gansta' mentality is prevalent, gun violence tends to be higher than in a farming community.
I love guns, but hate the negative view that is cast upon gun owners due to those who use them for the wrong reason. I see nothing wrong with an attempt to change the community's mentality.
This could be a positive for gun owners who do not participate in drive-by shootings.

"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young

[wayneflorida 0]

What is the big deal about giving up your toy gun when you have a real one at home.

[Skyrad 0]

Quote

What is the big deal about giving up your toy gun when you have a real one at home.

Great point.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[jclalor 12]

Every year I look forward to California's back to school gun sales.

[Andy9o8 3]

I loved toy guns and playing "combat" as a kid. I loved watching the shoot-em-up TV shows and movies. But as a dad, my attitude changed. My wife and I didn't want our kids to glorify violence the way so much popular culture does. When the kids were little, we didn't let them watch violent TV shows or movies. We also didn't let them play with toy guns (less of a stretch, I suppose, since they were girls).

I think it's perfectly OK for adults to safely and responsibly own guns, and to teach their kids how to properly shoot and care for guns, and to respect guns as tools of sport, hunting and self-defense that should not be manhandled or used as toys.

But toy guns, IMO, don't do that; rather, they glorify violence as fun. So I don't think an effort to reduce toy guns is all that bad a thing.

Now if you'll excuse me, there's an old rerun of The Rifleman on in 5 minutes.

[Skyrad 0]

They banned toy guns at school when I was a kid (at one of the better schools I went to) so we pretended with sticks instead.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[Andy9o8 3]

Quote

They banned toy guns at school when I was a kid (at one of the better schools I went to) so we pretended with sticks instead.

Of course; that's just natural. But the point I'm focusing on is the message sent to the kids by the adults.

[JohnRich 4]

Quote

But toy guns, IMO, don't do that; rather, they glorify violence as fun. So I don't think an effort to reduce toy guns is all that bad a thing.

Many generations of Americans have grown up that way with toy guns, and yet as adults they don't go around shooting each other just for the fun of it.

And did you notice that they're giving away hockey sticks in trade for the toy guns? By gosh, now there's a fine example of a violent sport for you, where fist fights are routine, and hockey sticks are used as deadly weapons. Why won't they think of the poor children who will now be destined to be maimed by playing with hockey sticks?

[freethefly 6]

Quote

Many generations of Americans have grown up that way with toy guns, and yet as adults they don't go around shooting each other just for the fun of it.

Let''s be honest. There is a large number of adults who have used guns for violence, since the invention. Every generation has their outlaws. It is nothing new.
The last couple of generations, however, has grown up on media that encourage bad behavior. We can blame their actions on bad parenting, violent video games, gangsta rap..., or we can look at the whole picture and see that a number of elements come together to encourage behavior. Young children tend to be very impressed by what is portrayed as cool.
I'll use gangsta rap as an example of encouraging inner-city gang violence. Gangsta rap reflects the reality of life in the worst parts of the city. The song 'Gangsta Paradise' illustrates the gangsta life.

Gangsta's Paradise
As I walk through the valley of the shadow of death
I take a look at my life and realize there's nuttin left
Cause I've been blastin and laughin so long that
Even my mama thinks that my mind is gone
But I ain't never crossed a man that didn't deserve it
Me be treated like a punk, you know that's unheard of
You better watch how you talkin, and where you walkin
Or you and your homies might be lined in chalk
I really hate to trip, but I gotta loc
As they croak I see myself in the pistol smoke, fool
I'm the kinda G the little homies wanna be like
On my knees in the night
Sayin prayers in the street light

We've been spending most our lives
Living in the Gangsta's Paradise

We keep spending most our lives
Living in the Gangsta's Paraside

Look at the situation, they got me facin
I can't live a normal life, I was raised by the state
So I gotta be down with the hood team
Too much television watchin got me chasin dreams
I'm a educated fool with money on my mind
Got my ten in my hand and a gleam in my eye
I'm a loc'ed out gangsta, set-trippin banger
And my homies is down, so don't arouse my anger, fool

Death ain't nuthin but a heart beat away
I'm livin life do-or-die-a, what can I say?
I'm twenty-three now, but will I live to see twenty-fo'?
The way things is goin I dunno

Tell me why are we -- so blind to see
That the ones we hurt -- are you and me

We've been spending most our lives
Living in the Gangsta's Paradise
We keep spending most our lives
Living in the Gangsta's Paradise

Power and the money, money and the power
Minute after minute, hour after hour
Everybody's runnin, but half of them ain't lookin
It's goin on in the kitchen, but I dont know what's cookin
They say I got ta learn, but nobody's here to teach me
If they cant understand it, how can they reach me?
I guess they cain't -- I guess they won't
I guess they frontin; that's why I know my life is outta luck, fool

We've been spending most our lives
Living in the Gangsta's Paradise
We keep spending most our lives
Living in the Gangsta's Paradise
Tell me why are we -- so blind to see
That the ones we hurt -- are you and me

I can see how young minds can be impressed and try to emulate who they consider to be their heroes. Gangsta's Paradise does not paint a pretty picture of their reality. I see the artist trying to show that the lifestyle is anything but a paradise. The artist makes his case his the line:
Tell me why are we -- so blind to see
That the ones we hurt -- are you and me

The Ice T song tends to go in the opposite direction and promotes gun violence.

Cop Killer
I got my black shirt on.
I got my black gloves on.
I got my ski mask on.
This shit's been too long.

I got my twelve gauge sawed off.
I got my headlights turned off.
I'm 'bout to bust some shots off.
I'm 'bout to dust some cops off.

Cop killer, better you than me.
Cop killer, fuck police brutality!
Cop killer, I know your family's grievin'
(fuck 'em)
Cop killer, but tonight we get even.

I got my brain on hype.
Tonight'll be your night.
I got this long-assed knife,
and your neck looks just right.
My adrenaline's pumpin'.
I got my stereo bumpin'.
I'm 'bout to kill me somethin'
A pig stopped me for nuthin'!

Cop killer, better you than me.
Cop killer, fuck police brutality!
Cop killer, I know your mama's grievin'
(fuck her)
Cop killer, but tonight we get even.

Die, die, die pig, die!
Fuck the police!
Fuck the police!
Fuck the police!
Fuck the police!
Fuck the police!
Fuck the police!
Fuck the police yeah!

Cop killer, better you than me.
I'm a Cop killer, fuck police brutality!
Cop killer, I know your family's grievin'
(fuck 'em)
Cop killer, but tonight we get even.

Fuck the police!
Fuck the police!
Fuck the police!
Fuck the police!
Fuck the police!
Fuck the police!
Fuck the police!
Fuck the police, break it down.
Fuck the police, yeah.
Fuck the police, for Darryl Gates.
Fuck the police, for Rodney King.
Fuck the police, for my dead homies.
Fuck the police, for your freedom.
Fuck the police, don't be a pussy.
Fuck the police, have some muthafuckin' courage.
Fuck the police, sing along.

Cop killer!
Cop killer!
Cop killer!
Cop killer!
Cop killer, what you're gonna be when you grown up?
Cop killer, good choice.
Cop killer!
I'm a muthafuckin' cop killer!

Cop killer, better you than me.
Cop killer, fuck police brutality!
Cop killer, I know your mama's grievin'
(fuck her)

Cop killer, but tonight we get even!

I can see how songs, such as Cop Killer, can lead a child, who has only seen the worst in life, down the wrong road.
The music of my generation promoted love and peaceful protest. It would be disingenuous to say that it did not help shape my character. As a teenager, the movies I watched were comedy. I played pinball and not Grand Theft Auto. There were no drive-by shootings in my community. We used our guns, shotgun and deer rifle, for hunting. If I had been a teenager in the inner-city with a barrage of daily violence soaking my mind, I might as easily turned out as so many young people do.

If a program, that is aimed to stop the killing, proves to be a positive for a community, it should be applied elsewhere. If gun violence goes down and continues to do so, the NRA should promote it. Gun violence should be their number one concern as it sways the view of non-gun owners. All responsible gun owners should view programs to reduce gun violence as the right thing to do. They should realize that the aim of reducing guns in the hands of criminals only serves their purpose of promoting responsible ownership. The best place to start is with the very young.
For the last few generations of people who have grown up in negative environments, the cause may very well be lost, but for the new generation coming up, there may very well be a chance to change their perception.

"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young

[christelsabine 1]

Quote

Quote

But toy guns, IMO, don't do that; rather, they glorify violence as fun. So I don't think an effort to reduce toy guns is all that bad a thing.

Many generations of Americans have grown up that way with toy guns, and yet as adults they don't go around shooting each other just for the fun of it.

And did you notice that they're giving away hockey sticks in trade for the toy guns? By gosh, now there's a fine example of a violent sport for you, where fist fights are routine, and hockey sticks are used as deadly weapons. Why won't they think of the poor children who will now be destined to be maimed by playing with hockey sticks?

What a BS - as usual, w/o any reasonable background.

My son was 12 y/o, when a hockey bat hit him just above the eye. The scar looks good on him.

I just prefer to see my son with a scar instead of a bullet in the head.

dudeist skydiver # 3105

[kelpdiver 2]

Quote

My son was 12 y/o, when a hockey bat hit him just above the eye. The scar looks good on him.

I just prefer to see my son with a scar instead of a bullet in the head.

But in this situation, the hockey stick replaces a water pistol, which would only have gotten your boy wet.

[kelpdiver 2]

Quote

They banned toy guns at school when I was a kid (at one of the better schools I went to) so we pretended with sticks instead.

oh, that won't fly. The schools here started suspended kids for pointing their fingers, never mind sticks.

Other than the water balloon, which is grenade/bomb like, is there any water delivery toy that isn't gun shaped? You need a tube of some sort in order to give it speed and direction, so it seems unavoidable. But is anyone really mistaking it for a gun?

[Andy9o8 3]

Quote

Quote

But toy guns, IMO, don't do that; rather, they glorify violence as fun. So I don't think an effort to reduce toy guns is all that bad a thing.

Many generations of Americans have grown up that way with toy guns, and yet as adults they don't go around shooting each other just for the fun of it.

And did you notice that they're giving away hockey sticks in trade for the toy guns? By gosh, now there's a fine example of a violent sport for you, where fist fights are routine, and hockey sticks are used as deadly weapons. Why won't they think of the poor children who will now be destined to be maimed by playing with hockey sticks?

Growing up near the Canadian border, I played a lot of hockey - midgets, high school and a little intramural in college. Outside of professional hockey in N. America (NHL and the minors), that kind of violence (fistfights, high-sticking and vicious checks) is simply not tolerated in hockey at the HS or college level, or in international/Olympic competition. There's no more reason to have NHL-style violence like that in hockey than in, say, (American-style) football or lacrosse. I think it stinks, and the only reason it's tolerated is because there are so many fucking goons in the consuming audience who like to watch the fights through the haze caused by too many pitchers of Labatt's. So in my book, a hockey stick need not necessarily represent violence any more than a football helmet does.

[JohnRich 4]

Quote

Quote

And did you notice that they're giving away hockey sticks in trade for the toy guns? By gosh, now there's a fine example of a violent sport for you, where fist fights are routine, and hockey sticks are used as deadly weapons. Why won't they think of the poor children who will now be destined to be maimed by playing with hockey sticks?

My son was 12 y/o, when a hockey bat hit him just above the eye. The scar looks good on him.
I just prefer to see my son with a scar instead of a bullet in the head.

Blah blah blah.

(In your Jeff Foxworthy "you might be a redneck" voice:)
If you would rather have your son almost lose an eye playing hockey, then to be squirted with water from a toy gun, then you might be a gun-o-phobe.

[freethefly 6]

Quote

Quote

Quote

And did you notice that they're giving away hockey sticks in trade for the toy guns? By gosh, now there's a fine example of a violent sport for you, where fist fights are routine, and hockey sticks are used as deadly weapons. Why won't they think of the poor children who will now be destined to be maimed by playing with hockey sticks?

My son was 12 y/o, when a hockey bat hit him just above the eye. The scar looks good on him.
I just prefer to see my son with a scar instead of a bullet in the head.

Blah blah blah.

(In your Jeff Foxworthy "you might be a redneck" voice:)
If you would rather have your son almost lose an eye playing hockey, then to be squirted with water from a toy gun, then you might be a gun-o-phobe.

The goal of the toy gun buy-back is to promote a positive learned behavior. Kids in gang territory are more likely to use a real gun later in life.
You complain about how kids are criminals and their illegal use of firearms make it harder for legal, responsible owners. Yet you balk at an attempt to deter children from what could someday be a very real gun by teaching them now that guns do not belong in their community. I don't understand why you view this as bad.

http://criminaljustice.posterous.com/crime-justice-news-newark-gun-violence-up-40
Newark Gun Violence up 40% But Acting Police Director Optimistic
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Newark has seen a 40 percent surge in gun violence this year, but the city's top cop tells the Newark Star-Ledger that despite a recent rash of shootings, his "Safe City" anti-violence campaign is helping to reverse the trend. Between Jan. 1 and July 10, there were 175 shootings in Newark, leaving 213 people dead or injured. During the same period last year, there were 125 shootings and 161 victims.

"We're not going to turn everything around in one month. That's an impossibility. But we're heading in the right direction," said Acting Police Director Samuel DeMaio, who was named police director in May when Garry McCarthy resigned after four years to become superintendent of the Chicago Police Department. Within a month of taking over, DeMaio launched his "Safe City" campaign, the goal of which is to increase police presence in dangerous neighborhoods and boost community involvement.


Costs of Gun Violence
Firearm-related deaths and injuries result in estimated medical costs of $2.3 billion each year – half of which are borne by U.S. taxpayers.
Once all the direct and indirect medical, legal and societal costs are factored together, the annual cost of gun violence in America amounts to $100 billion.

On teen violence in New Jersey:
http://www.njisj.org/document/NJISJYouthViolencePreventionTestimony_Final_112006.pdf
As stated in the report, while other programs do work, gang membership is on the rise.

A study of teen violence in Chicago:
https://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/nij/217397.pdf
http://www.nij.gov/nij/topics/crime/gun-violence/youths-gangs-guns/why-carry.htm

Violence is a learned behavior. Newark is riddled with gang activity. I've tied up the rail car in the rail yard there and would not walk the streets at night. Kids in gang territory learn just what they see. If they see shootings, they are more than likely to emulate that with toy guns.
If the people in a community such as Newark wish to use programs to change the mindset of their children to reduce the chance of losing those kids, more power to them. It's their neighborhood, they should do everything they can to turn their neighborhood around.

"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young

[kelpdiver 2]

Quote

Costs of Gun Violence
Firearm-related deaths and injuries result in estimated medical costs of $2.3 billion each year – half of which are borne by U.S. taxpayers.
Once all the direct and indirect medical, legal and societal costs are factored together, the annual cost of gun violence in America amounts to $100 billion.

Err, that looks more like the cost of crime.

[freethefly 6]

Quote

Quote

Costs of Gun Violence
Firearm-related deaths and injuries result in estimated medical costs of $2.3 billion each year – half of which are borne by U.S. taxpayers.
Once all the direct and indirect medical, legal and societal costs are factored together, the annual cost of gun violence in America amounts to $100 billion.

Err, that looks more like the cost of crime.

You are correct. However, it is a result from bad behavior. If this group that is promoting to change a child's future behavior by deterring illegal gun use, such cost to the taxpayer can be reduced. Understood that such results may be quite some time in the future. It doesn't hurt to start towards positive results now.

"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young

[masterrig 1]

Quote

I loved toy guns and playing "combat" as a kid. I loved watching the shoot-em-up TV shows and movies. But as a dad, my attitude changed. My wife and I didn't want our kids to glorify violence the way so much popular culture does. When the kids were little, we didn't let them watch violent TV shows or movies. We also didn't let them play with toy guns (less of a stretch, I suppose, since they were girls).

I think it's perfectly OK for adults to safely and responsibly own guns, and to teach their kids how to properly shoot and care for guns, and to respect guns as tools of sport, hunting and self-defense that should not be manhandled or used as toys.

But toy guns, IMO, don't do that; rather, they glorify violence as fun. So I don't think an effort to reduce toy guns is all that bad a thing.

Now if you'll excuse me, there's an old rerun of The Rifleman on in 5 minutes.

Too bad. I gave my Fanner-50 to my younger cousin.


Chuck

[kelpdiver 2]

Quote

Quote

Quote

Costs of Gun Violence
Firearm-related deaths and injuries result in estimated medical costs of $2.3 billion each year – half of which are borne by U.S. taxpayers.
Once all the direct and indirect medical, legal and societal costs are factored together, the annual cost of gun violence in America amounts to $100 billion.

Err, that looks more like the cost of crime.

You are correct. However, it is a result from bad behavior. If this group that is promoting to change a child's future behavior by deterring illegal gun use, such cost to the taxpayer can be reduced. Understood that such results may be quite some time in the future. It doesn't hurt to start towards positive results now.

The bad behavior is the use of violence, not the use of the gun as the tool of violence. And as I suggested previously, the squirt gun is hardly the gateway tool to a life of crime.

[freethefly 6]

Quote

The bad behavior is the use of violence, not the use of the gun as the tool of violence.

In gang areas, guns are portrayed as the means to move up the ladder on the street. It has been glorified to the point that gun violence is emulated by children. Playing gang banger with either a squirt gun or a cap gun only glorifies the lifestyles. If parents want their children to not be be playing such games then they need to find an alternative. This program seems to be an attempt to do just that.
So many people are fast to scream that it is the fault of the parent for not teaching their children good values. Here we have an attempt to promote better values and here we have those who are screaming "gunophobe."

Quote

And as I suggested previously, the squirt gun is hardly the gateway tool to a life of crime.

I contend it depends on where one lives and the lifestyle that is prevalent. If all a child sees, on a daily basis, it very well could be just a case of simple transition from a cap gun to a Glock.

"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young

[dks13827 3]

I grew up watching The Rifleman ( good guy ) then learned hunting and gun safety. Never wanted to go shoot someone. My parents made it clear that it wasn't okay to do that, not that I didnt know it already.

[kelpdiver 2]

Quote

In gang areas, guns are portrayed as the means to move up the ladder on the street. It has been glorified to the point that gun violence is emulated by children. Playing gang banger with either a squirt gun or a cap gun only glorifies the lifestyles. If parents want their children to not be be playing such games then they need to find an alternative. This program seems to be an attempt to do just that.

Kids have been playing cowboys and indians since there actually were cowboys and indians.

If parents want to avoid these sort of negative outcomes, the key is actual parenting, not silly notions that playing with a cap gun will make them thugs later. Absentee parents are the problem - no one sees the beginning of the bad behavior and therefore doesn't nip it in the bud. Or worse, they contribute to the problem with the same sort of behavior. (See Bill Cosby)

[freethefly 6]

Quote

I grew up watching The Rifleman ( good guy ) then learned hunting and gun safety. Never wanted to go shoot someone. My parents made it clear that it wasn't okay to do that, not that I didnt know it already.

The difference is the good guy was glorified, not the bad guy. One of my movie heroes was John Wayne. "Courage is being scared to death, but saddling up anyway."

Maybe more shows like Rifleman and movies like True Grit is part of the answer?

"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young