dreamdancer 0 #1 August 17, 2011 good idea or not... QuoteThe government has committed itself to a civic service in principle, but its plans look more like a glorified gap year scheme for the wealthy than a sustained programme that will reach everyone. The programme is voluntary. It will last just seven weeks. Those taking part in it will have to fund themselves, including a charge to take part. Ministers should ask themselves how many of the rioters, looters and those who were tempted to join them are really likely to sign up. Now is not the time for half measures. A British civic service should be compulsory. It should last at least six months, allowing for a truly transformative experience. Each participant should be paid the minimum wage to help them get by. It should give those taking part a taste of people and places very different from what they are used to. It should draw in the private and the voluntary sector to help provide structured and supervised projects for our young people to take part in. There is nervousness in Whitehall around compulsion, but we already support compulsory education until eighteen. Why is six months more so troubling? A YouGov poll in 2009 found that two thirds of adults support the idea of a compulsory civic service. The Treasury may baulk at the cost, but last week revealed the costs of inaction. With youth unemployment at record highs we already pay many to sit at home. Corporate sponsorship should be encouraged from those who want to play their part. http://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/the-staggers/2011/08/civic-service-young-childrenstay away from moving propellers - they bite blue skies from thai sky adventures good solid response-provoking keyboarding Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #2 August 17, 2011 Quotegood idea or not... QuoteThe government has committed itself to a civic service in principle, but its plans look more like a glorified gap year scheme for the wealthy than a sustained programme that will reach everyone. The programme is voluntary. It will last just seven weeks. Those taking part in it will have to fund themselves, including a charge to take part. Ministers should ask themselves how many of the rioters, looters and those who were tempted to join them are really likely to sign up. Now is not the time for half measures. A British civic service should be compulsory. It should last at least six months, allowing for a truly transformative experience. Each participant should be paid the minimum wage to help them get by. It should give those taking part a taste of people and places very different from what they are used to. It should draw in the private and the voluntary sector to help provide structured and supervised projects for our young people to take part in. There is nervousness in Whitehall around compulsion, but we already support compulsory education until eighteen. Why is six months more so troubling? A YouGov poll in 2009 found that two thirds of adults support the idea of a compulsory civic service. The Treasury may baulk at the cost, but last week revealed the costs of inaction. With youth unemployment at record highs we already pay many to sit at home. Corporate sponsorship should be encouraged from those who want to play their part. http://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/the-staggers/2011/08/civic-service-young-children what say you comradre?"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #3 August 17, 2011 Quotewhat say you comradre? So, any time a government requires their citizens to work for the common good, you'd consider that communist?quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skyrad 0 #4 August 17, 2011 As it stands its ridiculous as its not for long enough and its not compulsory. So the only kids that will do it are the ones who volunteer. The ones who need to be doing it simply won't bother.When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skyrad 0 #5 August 17, 2011 DD how is Operation Outreach going?When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #6 August 17, 2011 QuoteQuotewhat say you comradre? So, any time a government requires their citizens to work for the common good, you'd consider that communist? You are serious? (and I am not talking the military)"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #7 August 17, 2011 QuoteQuoteQuotewhat say you comradre? So, any time a government requires their citizens to work for the common good, you'd consider that communist? You are serious? (and I am not talking the military) To me that makes no sense. None. There are literally hundreds of ways young people could help their country besides serving in the military. Why would you draw the line at military service? What's the difference if it helps the country as a whole?quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lawrocket 3 #8 August 17, 2011 QuoteSo, any time a government requires their citizens to work for the common good, you'd consider that communist? Communist? No. Although "compulsory service" is found in places like Cuba for the cane harvest. Compulsory service is conscription. Much like the Draft, "Compulsory civic service" equals "conscription." "Conscription" equals "involuntary servitude." "Compulsory service" is slavery. Those in favor of "involuntary servitude" of course think that enslaving people is beneficial for the common good. Of course, it takes a lefty genius to take people and force them to work jobs that they don't want to work in order to provide them a "truly transformative experience." I like this: "It should give those taking part a taste of people and places very different from what they are used to." Fantastic. Let's send people to South so they can pick cotton. Or, as the military did, see people in different lands and kill them. All for the common good, you know. Killing those Gooks and Krauts and Japs was for the common good. 19 year old Johnny's being killed in Nam was for the good of American society. What do you think these civil service jobs will be? "Let's give young John a different experience from what he's used to. Let's send him to the hospital and have him work as an X-ray tech for six months!" No. It's getting people to work as slaves in the shit jobs that require no skill. I can see people like billvon or kallend being sent to work cleaning sewers instead of using their immense talents and skills in places where they can give the most benefit (as they are doing now). Add another issue: How do you think unions will like the idea of unskilled temporary labor being paid peanuts to perform jobs? Oh, they'll hate it unless the unions get kickbacks. Forced labor is a bad thing, in my view. It demonstrates a lack of appreciation for the rights of individuals where they must subsume to the common good. Note - the "common good" is always arbitrary. It is the bane of scoundrels to tell an oppressed person that it is good for that person. My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #9 August 17, 2011 QuoteQuoteSo, any time a government requires their citizens to work for the common good, you'd consider that communist? Communist? No. Although "compulsory service" is found in places like Cuba for the cane harvest. Compulsory service is conscription. Much like the Draft, "Compulsory civic service" equals "conscription." "Conscription" equals "involuntary servitude." "Compulsory service" is slavery. Then why is "The Draft" during war-time considered ok? Marc seems to think compulsory military service is ok. In fact, he sort of seems to think it's a good idea. Certainly Switzerland seems to think it's a good idea, but they also offer a civilian option for those not wishing or not qualifying for military duties. Last time I checked nobody considered Switzerland to be communist.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lawrocket 3 #10 August 17, 2011 QuoteThen why is "The Draft" during war-time considered ok? I DON'T consider it to be okay. Now, Congress has the power to "raise armies." the SCOTUS held as much, so I won't say it's not Constitutional. I can even see philosophical reasons that are compelling for a draft. Nevertheless, the Draft itself becomes the slippery slope. Drawing lines becomes one of moral judgment rather than intellectual consistency. The argument then becomes, "Well, my reason for slavery is acceptable but yours isn't." I make a line in the sand. Slavery is bad. My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #11 August 17, 2011 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuotewhat say you comradre? So, any time a government requires their citizens to work for the common good, you'd consider that communist? You are serious? (and I am not talking the military) To me that makes no sense. None. There are literally hundreds of ways young people could help their country besides serving in the military. Why would you draw the line at military service? What's the difference if it helps the country as a whole? Key difference my friend The word compulsory. Or is that a meaningless word to you in your world???"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #12 August 17, 2011 QuoteQuoteQuoteSo, any time a government requires their citizens to work for the common good, you'd consider that communist? Communist? No. Although "compulsory service" is found in places like Cuba for the cane harvest. Compulsory service is conscription. Much like the Draft, "Compulsory civic service" equals "conscription." "Conscription" equals "involuntary servitude." "Compulsory service" is slavery. Then why is "The Draft" during war-time considered ok? Marc seems to think compulsory military service is ok. In fact, he sort of seems to think it's a good idea. Certainly Switzerland seems to think it's a good idea, but they also offer a civilian option for those not wishing or not qualifying for military duties. Last time I checked nobody considered Switzerland to be communist. NO I do NOT think compulsory military service is OK"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #13 August 17, 2011 QuoteQuoteThen why is "The Draft" during war-time considered ok? I DON'T consider it to be okay. Now, Congress has the power to "raise armies." the SCOTUS held as much, so I won't say it's not Constitutional. I can even see philosophical reasons that are compelling for a draft. Nevertheless, the Draft itself becomes the slippery slope. Drawing lines becomes one of moral judgment rather than intellectual consistency. The argument then becomes, "Well, my reason for slavery is acceptable but yours isn't." I make a line in the sand. Slavery is bad. It scared the hell out of me that someone can think compulsory civic service is ok on some level Scarry as hell!"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #14 August 17, 2011 QuoteIt scared the hell out of me that someone can think compulsory civic service is ok on some level Scarry as hell! The US Constitution scares you?quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #15 August 17, 2011 QuoteQuoteIt scared the hell out of me that someone can think compulsory civic service is ok on some level Scarry as hell! The US Constitution scares you? No They way you think does"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #16 August 17, 2011 QuoteQuoteIt scared the hell out of me that someone can think compulsory civic service is ok on some level Scarry as hell! The US Constitution scares you? is there something in the Constitution about compulsory civic service? Not going to count slavery, esp since the 14th eliminated it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #17 August 17, 2011 As for the rioters, I'd round all the little shits up and give then a voluntary choice...jail or clean up the mess you made AND make restitution. If you choose jail, fine. You'll be on a road gang cleaning up the mess you made and the money you would have made will be going towards restitution while spending your nights locked up and away from decent society. (got it covered both ways, eh?) As for others, I see no problem with the idea that if you want a goobermint-sponsored handout, you have to get off your dead ass and earn it. My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #18 August 17, 2011 QuoteQuoteQuoteIt scared the hell out of me that someone can think compulsory civic service is ok on some level Scarry as hell! The US Constitution scares you? No They way you think does Gee Marc, it's a good thing you live in the US. Lemme ask you this, how do you feel about jury duty?quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #19 August 17, 2011 THIS what the thread subject QuoteTime for a compulsory civic service scheme If YOU feel this is OK in the context of the post provided by dreamy, then you are in the same boat with him Only you two are leaving us shores"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
champu 1 #20 August 17, 2011 QuoteQuoteThen why is "The Draft" during war-time considered ok? I DON'T consider it to be okay. Now, Congress has the power to "raise armies." the SCOTUS held as much, so I won't say it's not Constitutional. I can even see philosophical reasons that are compelling for a draft. Nevertheless, the Draft itself becomes the slippery slope. Drawing lines becomes one of moral judgment rather than intellectual consistency. The argument then becomes, "Well, my reason for slavery is acceptable but yours isn't." I make a line in the sand. Slavery is bad. The difference with a draft, and I realize this is perhaps one of those moral judgements you're referring to, is that it's compulsory civic service intended to protect the whole framework underwhich you get to decide things like "compulsary civic service is bad" from external aggressors who don't give a crap about your framework or your decisions. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #21 August 17, 2011 Marc, Please answer the question. Do you disagree with the concept of jury duty? The question is 100% relevant to the thread topic. Jury duty is compulsory civic service. Or did that not occur to you?quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #22 August 17, 2011 QuoteMarc, Please answer the question. Do you disagree with the concept of jury duty? The question is 100% relevant to the thread topic. Jury duty is compulsory civic service. No And it is not the same thing as this threads topic Jury duty is a civic duty that is spelled out. QuoteSelection of Jurors Potential jurors are chosen from a jury pool generated by random selection of citizens' names from lists of registered voters, or combined lists of voters and people with drivers licenses, in the judicial district. The potential jurors complete questionnaires to help determine whether they are qualified to serve on a jury. After reviewing the questionnaires, the court randomly selects individuals to be summoned to appear for jury duty. These selection methods help ensure that jurors represent a cross section of the community, without regard to race, gender, national origin, age or political affiliation. Being summoned for jury service does not guarantee that an individual actually will serve on a jury. When a jury is needed for a trial, the group of qualified jurors is taken to the courtroom where the trial will take place. The judge and the attorneys then ask the potential jurors questions to determine their suitability to serve on the jury, a process called voir dire. The purpose of voir dire is to exclude from the jury people who may not be able to decide the case fairly. Members of the panel who know any person involved in the case, who have information about the case, or who may have strong prejudices about the people or issues involved in the case, typically will be excused by the judge. The attorneys also may exclude a certain number of jurors without giving a reason. Dont want to be on a jury Dont vote"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #23 August 17, 2011 QuoteMarc, Please answer the question. Do you disagree with the concept of jury duty? The question is 100% relevant to the thread topic. Jury duty is compulsory civic service. Or did that not occur to you? Jury duty is to support a trial by your peers, and is random choice - that is a quite different situation than the subject of the thread.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #24 August 17, 2011 QuoteQuoteMarc, Please answer the question. Do you disagree with the concept of jury duty? The question is 100% relevant to the thread topic. Jury duty is compulsory civic service. Or did that not occur to you? Jury duty is to support the a trial by your peers, and is random choice - that is a quite different situation than the subject of the thread. He must like the idea of an Obamacorp"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
christelsabine 1 #25 August 17, 2011 Quote Quote Quote It scared the hell out of me that someone can think compulsory civic service is ok on some level Scarry as hell! The US Constitution scares you? No They way you think does Man rushmc, I'm an alien, you know that. It's really painful to read your posts: You post one liners that often and mostly, they include errors!!! Typing errors in a one liner! That is scary dudeist skydiver # 3105 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
