shah269 0 #76 August 22, 2011 Quote Face it, society has put a greater value on our banking institutions then on any one individual. Like it or not, it is what it is. Than we are in a world of hurt.Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay. The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
loumeinhart 0 #77 August 22, 2011 QuoteThan we are in a world of hurt. Remember not everyone involved with the refi boom got a bailout. Only a few major investment banks. There are thousands of lenders/mtg co's/title co's appraisers/home improvement contractors/ etc that received no bailout and just vaporized. Of course many of these were startups resulting from the boom itself. Here's some of my macro perspective: I bet you couldn't come up with 1 family member or best friend that would do for you what the bank did. They basically fronted you $300,000 on little more than a credit/income check, and signature. And it's their fault Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shah269 0 #78 August 22, 2011 Quote Here's some of my macro perspective: I bet you couldn't come up with 1 family member or best friend that would do for you what the bank did. They basically fronted you $300,000 on little more than a credit/income check, and signature. And it's their fault I'm sorry do you think I'm some sort of simpleton? Banks lend money not because they have a big heart, they lend money to those who have demonstrated good value so that they can make MONEY! And in my case as with many others this lent money was sold off 5 times through 5 different banks. Each bank made money on its transaction and fees. The bank that get "stuck" with my perfect credit rating loan can more or less expect continued return on their investment for year to come. I may have a good time in the other parts of the forum but please do not attempt such shenanigans here with respect to economics.Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay. The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 861 #79 August 22, 2011 You're going to need to understand economics in order to end the "shenanigans". Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
loumeinhart 0 #80 August 22, 2011 QuoteI'm sorry do you think I'm some sort of simpleton? Of course not. You've made it clear many times over that you make lots of money at your important job and that you are very smart. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,080 #81 August 22, 2011 >The banks made HUGE mistakes with respect to the mortgages and were bailed out by public funds. Agreed. So did a lot of homeowners, some of whom were bailed out by the federal government's aid programs. >Why can't such a federal option exist for the citizens of this country? Give those that >are worthy access to zero interest loans to pay down their differential to be able to >refinance and free up capital? It is. It's called the Hope for Homeowners act, and it lets you get some forgiveness of debt if you meet the following conditions: The original mortgage is dated on or before January 1, 2008 The homeowner did not default on the original loan intentionally The homeowner is not invested in multiple home loans All information on the original mortgage is true (including income sources and job details) The homeowner has not been convicted of fraud If you meet all those conditions you can apply for it. One caveat is that if anyone has any OTHER liens on your home (like a car loan) they can veto the deal. Another is that if your house appreciates in value, you don't get it all; the bank gets some of it. >The issue is at the moment, a good number of people are paying good money >on properties that have next to no value for the next 5-10 years. ?? They do, of course, have value. They may have no NET value to the homeowner because they made a foolish choice of loans, but the home itself still has value. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shah269 0 #82 August 22, 2011 QuoteQuoteI'm sorry do you think I'm some sort of simpleton? Of course not. You've made it clear many times over that you make lots of money at your important job and that you are very smart. If the average income in the US is $45k and I make more I must be have something going for me. And let's not kid ourselves, banks have made very good money off many good loans. Those that coudl afford the payments are paying. The question at hand is how do we get out of this cycle to free up capital to bring the economy back to life.Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay. The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,080 #83 August 22, 2011 >OK people are doing that, they are working..if they have work...and they are paying >money into an investment that will not have any real value in the next 10 years. >How will that grow the economy? The same way paying into an investment that DOES have value will. Every mortgage payment you make goes to a bank, which then passes it along to the investors (investors just like you) who have invested in a mortgage-backed security. They take that money and plow it right back into the economy. That's true whether or not you are underwater. >What they should just keep dumping money into a hole? It's their choice. They asked the banks for hundreds of thousands of dollars to do something they really wanted to do, and the banks gave it to them. It's great that they could do that. But they also have to pay back the money they borrowed. >vYes in 10 years time the pit will be filled with money and eventually capital >will begin to float the economy. That money is helping float the economy RIGHT NOW. You seem to want to end that infusion of cash, which will only hurt the economy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,080 #84 August 22, 2011 >And in my case as with many others this lent money was sold off 5 times >through 5 different banks. Right. So? In many cases, homeowners ditch their old mortgage and refinance 5 times to get a better rate. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shah269 0 #86 August 22, 2011 Quote>And in my case as with many others this lent money was sold off 5 times >through 5 different banks. Right. So? In many cases, homeowners ditch their old mortgage and refinance 5 times to get a better rate. Again, please don't go there! You know as well as I that every time one reassumes a loan there are costs associated to the transactions as indicated in basic contracting law. The bank does collect a good bit of cash when the outstanding debt is reassumed at a lower rate. Thus the bank does make money and in theory over the long run the barrower saves money.Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay. The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,080 #87 August 22, 2011 >You know as well as I that every time one reassumes a loan there are costs >associated to the transactions as indicated in basic contracting law. Yes. And there are costs to banks who resell mortgages as well. But sometimes both will do it to get a better rate in the long run. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shah269 0 #88 August 22, 2011 Quote>You know as well as I that every time one reassumes a loan there are costs >associated to the transactions as indicated in basic contracting law. Yes. And there are costs to banks who resell mortgages as well. But sometimes both will do it to get a better rate in the long run. And who pays the "costs to the bank"?Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay. The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,080 #89 August 22, 2011 >And who pays the "costs to the bank"? When the bank resells the mortgage? The bank. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shah269 0 #90 August 22, 2011 Quote>And who pays the "costs to the bank"? When the bank resells the mortgage? The bank. OK if you say so. However I have a good feeling that said "costs" are simply passed on to the customer.Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay. The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,080 #91 August 22, 2011 >However I have a good feeling that said "costs" are simply passed on to the customer. ?? Have you ever gotten a letter from a bank that said "hey, we resold your mortgage, please send us $500 to cover the processing costs?" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
loumeinhart 0 #92 August 22, 2011 QuoteThe question at hand is how do we get out of this cycle to free up capital to bring the economy back to life. I would get the history books out and look at past recessions then try to figure out what made the economy recover. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
weekender 0 #93 August 22, 2011 once the mortgages are packaged as a derivative securities they trade by contracts and its a net trade. in laymans terms it means that the two parties review each individual derivative as opposed to the security being listed on an exchange. they agree on price and its traded on that net price. Ideally the seller prices it for more than he paid but its not for certain. loses are taken. The cost is past on to the consumer but not the person Shah thinks. in this case the consumer is the institutional investor who buys the derivative. this has nothing to do with the little man, retail customer. It has morphed into a different animal once securitized."The point is, I'm weird, but I never felt weird." John Frusciante Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shah269 0 #94 August 22, 2011 Credit default swaps and annuities oh my. Hum how did we get out of the last one? Is Germany giving Poland the stink eye?Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay. The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #95 August 22, 2011 Quote If the average income in the US is $45k and I make more I must be have something going for me. Possibly. Or you live in a higher wage region ... and New Jersey probably does fit into that category. In any event, while you may be good at that work, you are inexperienced in finance and economics, and will benefit from studying a little more, and listening here a little bit more. Since you have a stable job, you may well avoid paying a steep price for this 100% loan you took. But it did cost you - you can't take advantage of the 4% rates. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shah269 0 #96 August 22, 2011 Quoteyou can't take advantage of the 4% rates NO YOU DON'T SAY! What next the sky is blue? An HA this is too funny! Talk about the banks telling the government to "suck it" http://www.hopeforhomeownersprogram.org/Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay. The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #97 August 22, 2011 QuoteQuoteyou can't take advantage of the 4% rates NO YOU DON'T SAY! What next the sky is blue? ok - now I'm just laughing at you. You're not learning from your mistakes. The lucky thing is that few other mistakes are as expensive. Rant on an internet forum all you want - you'll still be underwater with a 6.25% loan. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shah269 0 #98 August 22, 2011 WOW real civil.....well good luck with that.Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay. The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #99 August 22, 2011 QuoteWOW real civil.....well good luck with that. and the laughs KEEP COMING! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #100 August 22, 2011 QuoteWOW real civil.....well good luck with that. Remind me again, how civil was it when you told someone to "STFU" upthread?Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
