Belgian_Draft 0 #76 August 30, 2011 Quote Quote And once again you insist others support you. looks like a lot of these rich folks support my ideas (that is the ones who can see beyond their bank account) A very, very few agree with you. And, of those, how many have actually paid more to the government than they were required? Hmmmm? If they, and you, would put your money where your mouth is maybe others would take you more seriously. Until then, it's all just lip service.HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,117 #77 August 30, 2011 Quote Quote Quote And once again you insist others support you. looks like a lot of these rich folks support my ideas (that is the ones who can see beyond their bank account) A very, very few agree with you. And, of those, how many have actually paid more to the government than they were required? Hmmmm? If they, and you, would put your money where your mouth is maybe others would take you more seriously. Until then, it's all just lip service. I fail to see any connection between paying more than required and believing that there's a structural problem in the tax code.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Belgian_Draft 0 #78 August 30, 2011 Quote Quote Quote Quote And once again you insist others support you. looks like a lot of these rich folks support my ideas (that is the ones who can see beyond their bank account) A very, very few agree with you. And, of those, how many have actually paid more to the government than they were required? Hmmmm? If they, and you, would put your money where your mouth is maybe others would take you more seriously. Until then, it's all just lip service. I fail to see any connection between paying more than required and believing that there's a structural problem in the tax code. It's called "Practice what you preach". If they truly believed they should be paying more, they would do so on their own. I don't feel enough of my tax money goes to the right recipients, so I give to charities of my choice every year. Warren Buffet is free to do the same.HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,117 #79 August 31, 2011 Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote And once again you insist others support you. looks like a lot of these rich folks support my ideas (that is the ones who can see beyond their bank account) A very, very few agree with you. And, of those, how many have actually paid more to the government than they were required? Hmmmm? If they, and you, would put your money where your mouth is maybe others would take you more seriously. Until then, it's all just lip service. I fail to see any connection between paying more than required and believing that there's a structural problem in the tax code. It's called "Practice what you preach". If they truly believed they should be paying more, they would do so on their own. I don't feel enough of my tax money goes to the right recipients, so I give to charities of my choice every year. Warren Buffet is free to do the same. No, I don't see that it follows AT ALL. Paying more on your own does nothing whatever to correct deficiencies in the tax code. If anything, it (in a miniscule way) compensates for and masks deficiencies in the tax code.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Belgian_Draft 0 #80 August 31, 2011 Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote And once again you insist others support you. looks like a lot of these rich folks support my ideas (that is the ones who can see beyond their bank account) A very, very few agree with you. And, of those, how many have actually paid more to the government than they were required? Hmmmm? If they, and you, would put your money where your mouth is maybe others would take you more seriously. Until then, it's all just lip service. I fail to see any connection between paying more than required and believing that there's a structural problem in the tax code. It's called "Practice what you preach". If they truly believed they should be paying more, they would do so on their own. I don't feel enough of my tax money goes to the right recipients, so I give to charities of my choice every year. Warren Buffet is free to do the same. No, I don't see that it follows AT ALL. Paying more on your own does nothing whatever to correct deficiencies in the tax code. If anything, it (in a miniscule way) compensates for and masks deficiencies in the tax code. Calling for higher taxes is one thing. Hell, anyone can preach that we should be paying more taxes. Talk is easy and cheap. But it does absolutely nothing to convince people of the sincerity of their beliefs. No, his personal donation would not make much difference in and of itself. But it may garner support from those he is trying to sway over. So, if he really believes there is a problem, he would do more than just talk about it. Of course, there is alwayd the alternative of spending no more than we currently take in. But that would require scarifice from everyone and not just the wealthiest. It would also make too much sense and therefore would never be allowed in Washington.HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
blkhwk91b 0 #81 August 31, 2011 I give a shit about Buffett's tax guilt. Hey Buffy, whip out your checkbook there slick and make yourself feel better. How come the topic of illegal aliens hasn't reared its ugly head in this conversation yet. Talk about a complete molestation of the tax base. I can't imagine the lost tax revenue.........let's start with about nine or ten zero's and go from there."Better to have a short life that is full of what you like doing, than a long life spent in a miserable way." - Alan Watts Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #82 August 31, 2011 Quote How come the topic of illegal aliens hasn't reared its ugly head in this conversation yet. Talk about a complete molestation of the tax base. I can't imagine the lost tax revenue.........let's start with about nine or ten zero's and go from there. That's because in Never-Never Land, the illegals are just "undocumented workers" from Mexico who humbly come to the US looking to pick strawberries and are taken advantage of by the Evil Corporations who threaten to have them deported unless they work for low wages. After all, how can you demand that poor Pedro with his little burro and wife and child pay taxes on the pittance they recieve? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #83 August 31, 2011 QuotePaying more on your own does nothing whatever to correct deficiencies in the tax code. If anything, it (in a miniscule way) compensates for and masks deficiencies in the tax code. love it - it's everyone's civic duty to pay more taxes - therefore - I'll pay as little as possible to make my point so tax dodgers are actually heroes ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,117 #84 August 31, 2011 QuoteQuotePaying more on your own does nothing whatever to correct deficiencies in the tax code. If anything, it (in a miniscule way) compensates for and masks deficiencies in the tax code. love it - it's everyone's civic duty to pay more taxes - therefore - I'll pay as little as possible to make my point so tax dodgers are actually heroes In GOP world, maybe. I believe in paying what I owe, not in cheating. That's mostly for small businesses.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Belgian_Draft 0 #85 August 31, 2011 QuoteQuoteQuotePaying more on your own does nothing whatever to correct deficiencies in the tax code. If anything, it (in a miniscule way) compensates for and masks deficiencies in the tax code. love it - it's everyone's civic duty to pay more taxes - therefore - I'll pay as little as possible to make my point so tax dodgers are actually heroes In GOP world, maybe. I believe in paying what I owe, not in cheating. That's mostly for small businesses. Mostly for small businesses?? Did you bump your head or are you intentionally acting like it? How's this for a comeback: It is mostly college professors who cheat on their taxes.HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #86 August 31, 2011 QuoteIn GOP world, maybe. I believe in paying what I owe, not in cheating. That's mostly for small businesses. weird - you make a statement, then attribute it to 'GOP world' as far as paying what you owe, that's great - tell it to Buffet who owes back taxes and is fighting it all the way ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,117 #87 August 31, 2011 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuotePaying more on your own does nothing whatever to correct deficiencies in the tax code. If anything, it (in a miniscule way) compensates for and masks deficiencies in the tax code. love it - it's everyone's civic duty to pay more taxes - therefore - I'll pay as little as possible to make my point so tax dodgers are actually heroes In GOP world, maybe. I believe in paying what I owe, not in cheating. That's mostly for small businesses. Mostly for small businesses?? Did you bump your head or are you intentionally acting like it? How's this for a comeback: It is mostly college professors who cheat on their taxes. Ummm NO. According to an IRS study the most common tax cheats are the self employed and small business owners. A government study found the most underreporting of income was by self-employed restaurateurs, clothing store owners, and—you’ll no doubt be shocked—car dealers. Telemarketers and salespeople came in next, followed by doctors, lawyers (heavens!), accountants (heavens, again!), and hairdressers. Business owners who over-deduct business-related expenses—such as car and entertainment—came in a distant second on the cheaters hit parade. Salaried employees, on the other hand, make up a negligible fraction of tax cheats. See also www.forbes.com/2008/10/21/taxes-irs-wealth-biz-beltway-cz_jn_1021beltway.html... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,117 #88 August 31, 2011 QuoteQuoteIn GOP world, maybe. I believe in paying what I owe, not in cheating. That's mostly for small businesses. weird - you make a statement, then attribute it to 'GOP world' My comments were about the tax code and then YOU brought up tax dodgers in your post #88. Have you been taking weaseling lessons from mnealtx?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Belgian_Draft 0 #89 August 31, 2011 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuotePaying more on your own does nothing whatever to correct deficiencies in the tax code. If anything, it (in a miniscule way) compensates for and masks deficiencies in the tax code. love it - it's everyone's civic duty to pay more taxes - therefore - I'll pay as little as possible to make my point so tax dodgers are actually heroes In GOP world, maybe. I believe in paying what I owe, not in cheating. That's mostly for small businesses. Mostly for small businesses?? Did you bump your head or are you intentionally acting like it? How's this for a comeback: It is mostly college professors who cheat on their taxes. Ummm NO. According to an IRS study the most common tax cheats are the self employed and small business owners. A government study found the most underreporting of income was by self-employed restaurateurs, clothing store owners, and—you’ll no doubt be shocked—car dealers. Telemarketers and salespeople came in next, followed by doctors, lawyers (heavens!), accountants (heavens, again!), and hairdressers. Business owners who over-deduct business-related expenses—such as car and entertainment—came in a distant second on the cheaters hit parade. Salaried employees, on the other hand, make up a negligible fraction of tax cheats. See also www.forbes.com/2008/10/21/taxes-irs-wealth-biz-beltway-cz_jn_1021beltway.html The IRS said they underreported and/or overdeducted. Considering the hideous maze that is the tax code is it any wonder? Show us where they were intentionally cheating or do you consider any and all cases to be cheating? I'm sure some were, and i am also sure some were doing the best they could to do an honest job. For as long as I have been in business I always have my work double checked by my accountant. I also double check what work of his I can. It is rare we don't find mistakes either on calculations or other areas. Often we are at odds as to whether certain items are deductable. Call three people at the IRS for clarification and you will get one yes, one no, and one maybe.HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dreamdancer 0 #90 September 1, 2011 QuoteTwenty-five of the 100 highest paid U.S. CEOs earned more last year than their companies paid in federal income tax, a pay study said on Wednesday. It also found many of the companies spent more on lobbying than they did on taxes. At a time when lawmakers are facing tough choices in a quest to slash the national debt, the report from the Institute for Policy Studies (IPS), a left-leaning Washington think tank, quickly hit a nerve. After reading it, Democratic Representative Elijah Cummings, ranking member of the Committee on Oversight and Government Reform, called for hearings on executive compensation. In a letter to that committee's chairman, Republican Darrell Issa, Cummings asked "to examine the extent to which the problems in CEO compensation that led to the economic crisis continue to exist today." He also asked "why CEO pay and corporate profits are skyrocketing while worker pay stagnates and unemployment remains unacceptably high," and "the extent to which our tax code may be encouraging these growing disparities." http://www.commondreams.org/headline/2011/08/31stay away from moving propellers - they bite blue skies from thai sky adventures good solid response-provoking keyboarding Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,117 #91 September 1, 2011 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuotePaying more on your own does nothing whatever to correct deficiencies in the tax code. If anything, it (in a miniscule way) compensates for and masks deficiencies in the tax code. love it - it's everyone's civic duty to pay more taxes - therefore - I'll pay as little as possible to make my point so tax dodgers are actually heroes In GOP world, maybe. I believe in paying what I owe, not in cheating. That's mostly for small businesses. Mostly for small businesses?? Did you bump your head or are you intentionally acting like it? How's this for a comeback: It is mostly college professors who cheat on their taxes. Ummm NO. According to an IRS study the most common tax cheats are the self employed and small business owners. A government study found the most underreporting of income was by self-employed restaurateurs, clothing store owners, and—you’ll no doubt be shocked—car dealers. Telemarketers and salespeople came in next, followed by doctors, lawyers (heavens!), accountants (heavens, again!), and hairdressers. Business owners who over-deduct business-related expenses—such as car and entertainment—came in a distant second on the cheaters hit parade. Salaried employees, on the other hand, make up a negligible fraction of tax cheats. See also www.forbes.com/2008/10/21/taxes-irs-wealth-biz-beltway-cz_jn_1021beltway.html The IRS said they underreported and/or overdeducted. Considering the hideous maze that is the tax code is it any wonder? Show us where they were intentionally cheating or do you consider any and all cases to be cheating? I'm sure some were, and i am also sure some were doing the best they could to do an honest job. For as long as I have been in business I always have my work double checked by my accountant. I also double check what work of his I can. It is rare we don't find mistakes either on calculations or other areas. Often we are at odds as to whether certain items are deductable. Call three people at the IRS for clarification and you will get one yes, one no, and one maybe. Very funny. Random errors due to tax code complexity would on average cancel out, not lead to a consistent loss of $(hundreds of billions) in revenue due to tax cheating by small business owners..... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #92 September 2, 2011 YOU are the one that stated that Mr Buffet knows where his bread is buttered Now I may have to agree with you ***Report: Buffett's Berkshire Owes $1 Billion In Back Taxes Billionaire investor Warren Buffett triggered a major debate over taxes recently when he wrote in The New York Times that he should be paying more to the federal government. He called on Washington lawmakers to up tax rates on the rich. But it turns out that Buffett’s own company, Berkshire Hathaway, has been mired in a protracted legal battle with the Internal Revenue Service over a bill that one analyst estimates may total $1 billion. quote]"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DaVinci 0 #93 September 2, 2011 QuoteWarren Buffett announcing that he and his chums had been "coddled long enough by a billionaire-friendly Congress". The same WB whose company is not paying all its taxes? http://www.berkshirehathaway.com/2010ar/2010ar.pdf Read pg 56 "“At December 31, 2010… net unrecognized tax benefits were $1,005 million”, (~$1 billion). Unrecognized tax benefits represent the company’s potential future obligation to the IRS and other taxing authorities. They have to be recorded in the company’s financial statements.” So maybe his company should pay its tax bill. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dreamdancer 0 #94 September 18, 2011 latest Quote President Barack Obama is expected to seek a new base tax rate for the wealthy to ensure that millionaires pay at least at the same percentage as middle income taxpayers. A White House official said the proposal would be included in the president's proposal for long term deficit reduction that he will announce Monday. The official spoke anonymously because the plan has not been officially announced. Obama is going to call it the "Buffett Rule" for Warren Buffett, the billionaire investor who has complained that rich people like him pay a smaller share of their income in federal taxes than middle-class taxpayers. Buffett wrote in a New York Times op-ed piece last month that he and his rich friends "have been coddled long enough by a billionaire-friendly Congress." The measure would be in addition to £283 billion ($447 billion) in new tax revenue that Obama is seeking to pay for his short-term spending and tax cutting plan to jump start the economy. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/barackobama/8771736/President-Obama-to-seek-a-new-tax-rate-for-wealthy.htmlstay away from moving propellers - they bite blue skies from thai sky adventures good solid response-provoking keyboarding Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dreamdancer 0 #95 September 18, 2011 what shouldn't be difficult?stay away from moving propellers - they bite blue skies from thai sky adventures good solid response-provoking keyboarding Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #96 September 18, 2011 Quote ***President Barack Obama is expected to seek a new base tax rate for the wealthy to ensure that millionaires pay at least at the same percentage as middle income taxpayers. Obama is going to call it the "Buffett Rule" for Warren Buffett, the billionaire investor who has complained that rich people like him pay a smaller share of their income in federal taxes than middle-class taxpayers. uh, that will be a neat trick, since the reason for the supposed inequity is that people like Buffet make most of their taxable income each year from dividend payouts (stock gains only apply when realized, though only short term capital gains are taxed at income rates). Adding a new upper bracket won't change this. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Southern_Man 0 #97 September 19, 2011 Quote uh, that will be a neat trick, since the reason for the supposed inequity is that people like Buffet make most of their taxable income each year from dividend payouts (stock gains only apply when realized, though only short term capital gains are taxed at income rates). Adding a new upper bracket won't change this. Of course there are ways to change that. One simple idea (just thinking out loud) is to tax the first X number of dollars of capital gains at the now existing rate and then tax capital gains above that as regular income. Of course any system is imperfect."What if there were no hypothetical questions?" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shah269 0 #98 September 19, 2011 On one hand it's taxing money twice...which is wrong. On the other it can be argued that the money being pulled out is of a lesser value than the money that was invested. But it's also a very good way to dance around the tax code. A company could pay you say $10mill in cash or $10mill in stocks....at which point you could sell them and only pay 10% in taxes? It is a very effective way for the very well to do to shift the burden of taxes from to the company which they worked for and issued them the stocks or bonds which in turn transfers the cost of those taxes on to the people who actually buy the product. The cut and dry answer? There isn't one. People are pissed, there is a war on the middle class by the upper class and some people want blood. This may be just enough blood to calm a few people down. It will be as effective as the Corporate Jet tax...Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay. The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #99 September 19, 2011 Quote On one hand it's taxing money twice...which is wrong. On the other it can be argued that the money being pulled out is of a lesser value than the money that was invested. But it's also a very good way to dance around the tax code. A company could pay you say $10mill in cash or $10mill in stocks....at which point you could sell them and only pay 10% in taxes? It is a very effective way for the very well to do to shift the burden of taxes from to the company which they worked for and issued them the stocks or bonds which in turn transfers the cost of those taxes on to the people who actually buy the product. The cut and dry answer? There isn't one. People are pissed, there is a war on the middle class by the upper class and some people want blood. This may be just enough blood to calm a few people down. It will be as effective as the Corporate Jet tax... Or, we could look at it this way If this woman paid more than Mr Buffet then, the correct solution, is to LOWER the tax rate paid by her(but we all know she didnt, but that fact does not sell class warfare emotions)"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,465 #100 September 19, 2011 QuoteIf this woman paid more than Mr Buffet then, the correct solution, is to LOWER the tax rate paid by her You seem to be comparing apples and oranges in that one sentence. Can't compare actual taxes paid to tax rates. In this case, she would have paid less tax dollars, but a higher tax rate. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
