dreamdancer 0 #1 July 26, 2011 exceedingly inefficient... QuotePrivate insurers make money by screening out the sick, denying claims and raising premiums. They cause us to waste enormous amounts of money on excess paperwork and bureaucracy — their own paperwork and the paperwork they inflict on hospitals, patients and doctors like me. An estimated 31 cents of every health care dollar goes toward administration in U.S. health care, at least half of it unnecessary. It doesn’t have to be this way. Our nation needs to enact a single-payer national health insurance program, an improved Medicare for all. Instead of the being saddled with the mean-spirited, wasteful and exclusionary insurance arrangements we have now, an improved Medicare for all program would be fair, frugal and inclusive. By replacing the private insurers with a single, streamlined, publicly financed system that handled all bills, we’d recapture about $400 billion annually that’s currently spent on unnecessary paperwork -- enough to provide comprehensive coverage to all the uninsured and to improve coverage for the rest of us. Such a system could negotiate pharmaceutical prices like the Veterans Administration does, lowering drug costs by about 40 percent. The same principle would apply to other supplies and services, helping us rein in costs. The burden of rising health care costs on businesses would be sharply reduced, thereby enhancing the competitiveness of U.S. products overseas. Lowering out-of-pocket health cost would leave more money for discretionary spending that stimulates the economy. http://www.commondreams.org/view/2011/07/26-8stay away from moving propellers - they bite blue skies from thai sky adventures good solid response-provoking keyboarding Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #2 July 26, 2011 QuotePrivate insurers make money by screening out the sick, denying claims and raising premiums. And Medicare denies more claims than private insurers.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
StreetScooby 5 #3 July 26, 2011 Quote And Medicare denies more claims than private insurers. It would be interesting to see how their denials break down by race.We are all engines of karma Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Belgian_Draft 0 #4 July 26, 2011 And how would it be paid for?HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lefty 0 #5 July 26, 2011 QuoteQuotePrivate insurers make money by screening out the sick, denying claims and raising premiums. And Medicare denies more claims than private insurers. And Medicare takes longer to pay out, from what I've read.Provoking a reaction isn't the same thing as saying something meaningful. -Calvin Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #6 July 26, 2011 QuoteQuoteQuotePrivate insurers make money by screening out the sick, denying claims and raising premiums. And Medicare denies more claims than private insurers. And Medicare takes longer to pay out, from what I've read. The private insurers, on average, are faster. A couple are in the same timeframe as Medicare at 14 days, most are 10 days or less to first remittance.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DanJohnson 0 #7 July 26, 2011 QuoteQuotePrivate insurers make money by screening out the sick, denying claims and raising premiums. And Medicare denies more claims than private insurers. Listen, If government health care is provided to the entire population you can still provide for your own private health care plan. Personally I believe that the US government (at this point)should provide all citizens with health care or pull their nose out of my health care choices completely. Don't mandate what drugs I have access or to whom I can entrust my surgery. Get your nose out of my business and let me decide what is best for my health or pay for my health care. . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #8 July 27, 2011 QuoteQuoteQuotePrivate insurers make money by screening out the sick, denying claims and raising premiums. And Medicare denies more claims than private insurers. And Medicare takes longer to pay out, from what I've read. Ever run a business? I was really happy if my clients even paid within 30 days. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dreamdancer 0 #9 July 27, 2011 QuoteQuotePrivate insurers make money by screening out the sick, denying claims and raising premiums. And Medicare denies more claims than private insurers. citation please...stay away from moving propellers - they bite blue skies from thai sky adventures good solid response-provoking keyboarding Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dreamdancer 0 #10 July 27, 2011 Quote And how would it be paid for? it's cheaper than the private (and inefficient) system you have at the moment - so money saved for the deficit stay away from moving propellers - they bite blue skies from thai sky adventures good solid response-provoking keyboarding Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DougH 270 #11 July 27, 2011 Wow a news article about medicare for all, on a political action groups website who promotes universal healthcare. That right there some stellar fact finding, no bias in that article. Here is the bio on the author: "Johnathon Ross, M.D., M.P.H., is past president of Physicians for a National Health Program and an executive committee member of the Single Payer Action Network in Ohio (www.spanohio.org)""The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall" =P Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DougH 270 #12 July 27, 2011 QuoteGet your nose out of my business and let me decide what is best for my health or pay for my health care. . Whose nose is in your health? If you pay cash dollars out of your own pocket you can have what ever health care you want. If you are on a government (state or federal) or private insurance plan you need to shut up and deal with what they dictate. Health care is still supply and demand whether you like it or not. The worlds best surgeon in a specific procedure can only perform so many procedures per day, week, month, and year. That means not every one can get access to the best, and not every one can afford the best. If you want your own say the stfu and pay your way!"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall" =P Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sfzombie 3 #13 July 27, 2011 supply and demand my left nut! there is no excuse for healthcare to be so expensive in this country wehen the rest of the world has about 40% less cost on average for the same care. most of the doctors in india are educated here, and we have us citizens travelling there for medical procedures to save money. an no, i'm not gonna provide any citations, it's all shit i get from different websites, you can't really trust any of it anyway. universal healthcare is the only sensible way to go, most of the "western" nations have learned this. i haven't been able to afford healthcare for years, i make too much for medicare, and not enough to pay for my own if i want any luxuries like food, and gas for a vehicle. skydiving? havent jumped in over 2 years. if i'd got my license instead of getting married back in 98, i'd be jumping now, but student jumps are way too much. at least i don't bitch about it and blame obama. i've actually worked more since he got in. all of the broke people i know(most of my friends) love him. it's mostly people who are in higher income brackets bitching.http://kitswv.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
weekender 0 #14 July 27, 2011 Ok, some pure anecdotes but wanted to share for the fair minded readers. i have had gov't healthcare when i was young i the military. it was horrible. saw a PA and was told i had no right to ask for an actual dr. her nurse was an emt. it was everything i hated about the DMV in a medical setting. i visit my family in Rome every year. i dont admire their "free" system at all. my cousin is diabetic as is my wife. my private insurance provides her more modern procedures and she can see any Dr at anytime. I do not envy them one little bit. ive had private insurance for 20 yrs. and have a wife with a chronic illness(juvenile diabetes). no complaints other than its expensive. considering my experience with "free" healthcare i gladly pay it. our current system is working fine for me. i dont like paying more every year but do not like the alternatives i have experienced. also, i do NOT trust the politicians to set a a better system for MY family. i have no faith in our gov't and trust private industry over them everytime. i know others disagree."The point is, I'm weird, but I never felt weird." John Frusciante Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DougH 270 #15 July 27, 2011 Quotesupply and demand my left nut! there is no excuse for healthcare to be so expensive in this country wehen the rest of the world has about 40% less cost on average for the same care. most of the doctors in india are educated here, and we have us citizens travelling there for medical procedures to save money. I wasn't addressing the cost of health care, I think health care costs are crazy myself, I was addressing the silly statement that was made: "Get your nose out of my business and let me decide what is best for my health or pay for my health care." Unless you are paying for your health care with cash you really don't have any leg to stand on when it comes to complete freedom in determining your health care. The cost saving from cutting out private insurers administrative function out of the process is only part of the equation for the suposed cost savings from universal health care. That increase the percentage of premiums (or in this case tax revenue) that goes towards actual medical costs, but that alone does not reduce medical costs or medical inflation. MA is the perfect example of universal health care causing health care costs to skyrocket. The other part of the cost savings comes from rationing care, limiting choices, favoring certain medications and procedures over others, having people wait longer for care to decrease the volume. My resistance to universal health care is that it will be implemented in a half assed way that will funnel more money away from the private industry than it nets cost savings for. And at the end of the day it is going to cost me in more in my lifetime in the form of increased taxes, and my quality of care will go down over my life time, when compared to my employer provide health care that I pay into."The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall" =P Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sfzombie 3 #16 July 27, 2011 i will have to say that i too distrust the government in it's ability to efectively administer a program as important as healthcare. the problem lies not with the poilticians, but the system itself. it needs to be scrapped and started over with no federal government interference in anything the states should administer. in other words, the way the country was intended to be. pre-civil war. we the people -the united sheep of america- have let freedoms be stripped from us one by one until we have almost none left compared to the early 1800's. and it didn't start until we started to get soft, technology is to blame. nobody wants to give up any amount of convenience for the greater good. what do you think would happen if they started rationing anything for a war nowadays? in my opinion, and that's all it is, they should stop trying to extend the life expectancy, reverse some of the major medical breakthroughs, and quit trying to develop more. sorry about the rant, but it's the only way to really fix it is to totally revamp the entire system, and it may sound cold, but oh well. take one for the team. there was a reason that some babies aren't supposed to live when they had really bad shit wrong with them, it's called evolution. we need to stop the madness.....http://kitswv.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tkhayes 348 #17 July 27, 2011 QuoteThe private insurers, on average, are faster. A couple are in the same timeframe as Medicare at 14 days, most are 10 days or less to first remittance. certainly MY first concern when I am looking for health care is how quickly the insurer pays....sheesh! like I give a fuck. Medicare for all, better the system, remove those inhibitors, stop denying claims through legislation instead of privatization and then pay for it through the tax base. Just like we pay for the military. solution is easy solution is obvious no one gets 'denied'. access to all. It could even be done in steps over 5-10 years. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #18 July 27, 2011 QuoteQuoteThe private insurers, on average, are faster. A couple are in the same timeframe as Medicare at 14 days, most are 10 days or less to first remittance. certainly MY first concern when I am looking for health care is how quickly the insurer pays....sheesh! like I give a fuck. Medicare for all, better the system, remove those inhibitors, stop denying claims through legislation instead of privatization and then pay for it through the tax base. Just like we pay for the military. solution is easy solution is obvious no one gets 'denied'. access to all. It could even be done in steps over 5-10 years. We can't pay for it *NOW*, and it doesn't even cover the cost of the doctor's visit.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tkhayes 348 #19 July 27, 2011 Quotei will have to say that i too distrust the government in it's ability to efectively administer a p... I mistrust the govt too. No reason to scrap it entirely. that is why we have elections. I do not get to 'elect' my health insurance provider. Quote....the way the country was intended to be. pre-civil war. you mean with slavery, starvation, low life expectancies, disease, TB, - that sort of way we were 'intended to be'? Quote...there was a reason that some babies aren't supposed to live,,, so who gets to choose....? you? me? so much for the 'right to life' buit in the Constitution - you know the way things were INTENDED to be.... Quotesorry about the rant, I'm sorry too, but the solution ain't anarchy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dreamdancer 0 #20 July 27, 2011 QuoteThe Medicare program has many virtues. It has created incentives for hospitals and doctors to improve the quality of care. It has produced better cost control than the private sector, despite giving patients freedom to see any doctor and go to any hospital. The cost of administering the program is in the 1.3 percent to 3 percent range, much less than the 12-14 percent range typical of big employer-based private plans, and the 25-30 percent overhead associated with individual plans. Given these strengths, Medicare should have been the model for health reform. Instead, in passing the Affordable Care Act, Congress added a third floor to house with a crumbling foundation. That crumbling foundation is our inefficient, wasteful private-insurance-based system of financing health care. http://www.commondreams.org/view/2011/07/26-8stay away from moving propellers - they bite blue skies from thai sky adventures good solid response-provoking keyboarding Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tkhayes 348 #21 July 27, 2011 QuoteWe can't pay for it *NOW*, and it doesn't even cover the cost of the doctor's visit. We can't pay for it *NOW* as you say, because there is not enough tax revenue coming in. We COULD pay for it easily. as far as covering the cost of the doctor's visit, -doesn't that doctors visit also include a bunch of overhead and staffing required to deal with the insurance companies? Sorry but I call bullshit. My doctor has no time nor respect for insurance companies. They promise him and fail to deliver. They promise me and fail to deliver. Sounds just like the govt that you continuously complain about. I would rather see my 'wasted money' going to pay for some poor fucker than has not health care than helping to pay the backyard zoo and private jet that some CEO owns..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #22 July 27, 2011 QuoteQuoteWe can't pay for it *NOW*, and it doesn't even cover the cost of the doctor's visit. We can't pay for it *NOW* as you say, because there is not enough tax revenue coming in. We COULD pay for it easily. No, we couldn't. Medicare's unfunded liability is over 25 *TRILLION* dollars. QuoteAs far as covering the cost of the doctor's visit, -doesn't that doctors visit also include a bunch of overhead and staffing required to deal with the insurance companies? Insurance companies like Medicare, yes. QuoteSorry but I call bullshit. My doctor has no time nor respect for insurance companies. They promise him and fail to deliver. They promise me and fail to deliver. Insurance companies just like Medicare.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
weekender 0 #23 July 27, 2011 QuoteQuoteWe can't pay for it *NOW*, and it doesn't even cover the cost of the doctor's visit. We can't pay for it *NOW* as you say, because there is not enough tax revenue coming in. We COULD pay for it easily. as far as covering the cost of the doctor's visit, -doesn't that doctors visit also include a bunch of overhead and staffing required to deal with the insurance companies? Sorry but I call bullshit. My doctor has no time nor respect for insurance companies. They promise him and fail to deliver. They promise me and fail to deliver. Sounds just like the govt that you continuously complain about. I would rather see my 'wasted money' going to pay for some poor fucker than has not health care than helping to pay the backyard zoo and private jet that some CEO owns..... i am the opposite. i would much rather put my trust in the CEO. he wants to stay rich and in order to do so must continue to deliver a product people want to buy. As it is now i can complain and if not happy switch to another company run by some other CEO. I've seen the gov't run no competition model as stated in an earlier post. dont like it much. if some CEO needs to get rich for me to have good healthcare i'm fine with it. besides zookeepers and private jet pilots need jobs too."The point is, I'm weird, but I never felt weird." John Frusciante Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dreamdancer 0 #24 July 27, 2011 QuoteQuoteQuoteWe can't pay for it *NOW*, and it doesn't even cover the cost of the doctor's visit. We can't pay for it *NOW* as you say, because there is not enough tax revenue coming in. We COULD pay for it easily. as far as covering the cost of the doctor's visit, -doesn't that doctors visit also include a bunch of overhead and staffing required to deal with the insurance companies? Sorry but I call bullshit. My doctor has no time nor respect for insurance companies. They promise him and fail to deliver. They promise me and fail to deliver. Sounds just like the govt that you continuously complain about. I would rather see my 'wasted money' going to pay for some poor fucker than has not health care than helping to pay the backyard zoo and private jet that some CEO owns..... i am the opposite. i would much rather put my trust in the CEO. he wants to stay rich and in order to do so must continue to deliver a product people want to buy. As it is now i can complain and if not happy switch to another company run by some other CEO. I've seen the gov't run no competition model as stated in an earlier post. dont like it much. if some CEO needs to get rich for me to have good healthcare i'm fine with it. besides zookeepers and private jet pilots need jobs too. what about the competition model of the military? - generals don't need to get rich...stay away from moving propellers - they bite blue skies from thai sky adventures good solid response-provoking keyboarding Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
weekender 0 #25 July 27, 2011 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteWe can't pay for it *NOW*, and it doesn't even cover the cost of the doctor's visit. We can't pay for it *NOW* as you say, because there is not enough tax revenue coming in. We COULD pay for it easily. as far as covering the cost of the doctor's visit, -doesn't that doctors visit also include a bunch of overhead and staffing required to deal with the insurance companies? Sorry but I call bullshit. My doctor has no time nor respect for insurance companies. They promise him and fail to deliver. They promise me and fail to deliver. Sounds just like the govt that you continuously complain about. I would rather see my 'wasted money' going to pay for some poor fucker than has not health care than helping to pay the backyard zoo and private jet that some CEO owns..... i am the opposite. i would much rather put my trust in the CEO. he wants to stay rich and in order to do so must continue to deliver a product people want to buy. As it is now i can complain and if not happy switch to another company run by some other CEO. I've seen the gov't run no competition model as stated in an earlier post. dont like it much. if some CEO needs to get rich for me to have good healthcare i'm fine with it. besides zookeepers and private jet pilots need jobs too. what about the competition model of the military? - generals don't need to get rich... the military isnt in the business of providing a good or service to the public like healthcare. not apples to apples to me. You might not agree, i wont try to change your mind. its wired differently than mine if you cannot see my point. i am curious though. if you think the military is similiar to the healthcare industry what about grocery stores? What could be more important than the supply of food? how do we trust our food service delivery to profit motivated individuals? what keeps them from hoarding food to drive up the cost? after all, we NEED food."The point is, I'm weird, but I never felt weird." John Frusciante Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
