hwt 0 #1 July 25, 2011 In 1887 Alexander Tyler, a Scottish history professor at the University of Edinborough , had this to say about the fall of the Athenian Republic some 2,000 years prior: "A democracy is always temporary in nature; it simply cannot exist as a permanent form of government. A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters discover that they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates who promise the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that every democracy will finally collapse over loose fiscal policy, (which is) always Followed by a dictatorship." "The average age of the world's greatest civilizations from the beginning of history, has been about 200 years. During those 200 years, these nations always progressed through the following sequence: From bondage to spiritual faith; From spiritual faith to great courage; From courage to liberty; From liberty to abundance; From abundance to complacency; From complacency to apathy; From apathy to dependence; From dependence back into bondage." The Obituary follows:Born 1776, Died 2012 It doesn't hurt to read this several times.Professor Joseph Olson of Hamline University School of Law in St. Paul , Minnesota , About some interesting facts concerning the last Presidential election: Number of States won by: Obama: 19 McCain: 29 Square miles of land won by: Obama: 580,000 McCain: 2,427,000 Population of counties won by: Obama: 127 million McCain: 143 million Murder rate per 100,000 residents in counties won by: Obama: 13.2McCain: 2.1 Professor Olson adds: "In aggregate, the map of the territory McCain won was mostly the land owned by the taxpaying citizens of the country. Obama territory mostly encompassed those citizens living in low income tenements and living off various forms of government welfare..."Olson believes the United States is now somewhere between the"complacency and apathy" phase of Professor Tyler's definition of democracy,Some forty percent of the nation's population already having reached the "governmental dependency" phase. If Congress grants amnesty and citizenship to twenty million criminal invaders called illegal's - and they vote - then we can say goodbye to the USA in fewer than five years. knowing that apathy is the greatest danger to our freedom. This is truly scary! Of course we are not a democracy, we are a Constitutional Republic . Someone should point this out to Obama. Of course we know he and too many others pay little attention to the Constitution. There could not be more at stake than on Nov 2012. How many of us really looked at what has been happening to America over the years? Are you a part of America 's growing entitlement attitude or do you want to stop this in the little time we have left? So now that your have this information, what are you planning to do with it? ___________________________________ Obama was voted in by the inexperienced youth , minorities and socialist... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DanG 1 #2 July 25, 2011 Regarding the numbers quoted from Professor Joseph Olson, 19+29 does not equal 50. I'm pretty sure all fifty states (and DC) were won by either Obama or McCain.In point of fact, Obama won 28 states (and the district), McCain won 22. If your Professor won't cite the number of states won correctly, why should I believe any of his other statistics? - Dan G Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sfzombie 3 #3 July 25, 2011 you are completely correct in discarding the figures spouted by the author of the article. what you cannot discount is the chain of events, or in this case a circle. that is not an assumption or interpretation of statistics. it is true. the time line may be a little off ino our case, but the end result is inevitable. it is even way too late to do anything about it, try convincing the majority of the us population that they need to give up anything, they laugh at you and the the people in charge label you an extremist or worse, a conspiracy theorist.http://kitswv.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #4 July 25, 2011 QuoteA perfect democracy, a ‘warm body’ democracy in which every adult may vote and all votes count equally, has no internal feedback for self-correction. It depends solely on the wisdom and self-restraint of citizens… which is opposed by the folly and lack of self-restraint of other citizens. What is supposed to happen in a democracy is that each sovereign citizen will always vote in the public interest for the safety and welfare of all. But what does happen is that he votes his own self-interest as he sees it… which for the majority translates as ‘Bread and Circuses.’ ‘Bread and Circuses’ is the cancer of democracy, the fatal disease for which there is no cure. Democracy often works beautifully at first. But once a state extends the franchise to every warm body, be he producer or parasite, that day marks the beginning of the end of the state. For when the plebs discover that they can vote themselves bread and circuses without limit and that the productive members of the body politic cannot stop them, they will do so, until the state bleeds to death, or in its weakened condition the state succumbs to an invader—the barbarians enter Rome Robert A. Heinlein.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #5 July 25, 2011 "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch." -Benjamin Franklin Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DanG 1 #6 July 25, 2011 QuoteObama was voted in by the inexperienced youth , minorities and socialist... This is offensive on many levels. It implies that minorities should not be entrusted with the vote. I'm not sure how you feel about that, but I think the idea is disgusting. It also implies that young people can't be informed enough to vote. Bullshit. I'd wager that young people are just as informed as older people, in many case much more so. People like to say that the youth are the future, but those same people don't actually want the youth to have anything to do with the future. Furthermore, the same people bemoaning the ignorance of America's youth generally want to cut education funding. Talk about ignorance. Finally, Obama is not a socialist. Get a new mantra. - Dan G Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #7 July 25, 2011 96% of blacks voted for Obama. Many blacks who voted for him did so BECAUSE he is black. The emotion of having a black President over-rode everything else and you know it. While the % of blacks who voted for him wasn't much more than those who voted for Kerry or Gore, the numbers of blacks who registered for the first time in order to vote for Obama was higher than in previous elections. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DanG 1 #8 July 25, 2011 Actually 96% of black voters voted for Obama. Considering 95% of black voters voted for Gore in 2004, I think you'll have a hard time proving the overriding reason they voted for Obama was because he was black. You'll do better arguing that more black voters went to the polls because they finally had a candidate they could relate to. Of course, the OP has already implied that black people shouldn't be allowed to vote at all. How do you feel about that proposal? - Dan G Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GeorgiaDon 380 #9 July 25, 2011 Snopes could be your friend, should you decide to stop copying and pasting crap that has been circulating on the internet since the Bush/Gore election of 2000. Even so, the article is riddled with errors. It wasn't written by Professor Olson, "Alexander Tyler" is "Tytler" and he never wrote about the fall of the Athenian Republic (indeed, he never wrote anything attributed to him in your POS copy-and-paste), and most of the numbers given were false even following the Bush/Gore contest, and are even more unreal when applied to Obama. I'm sure there must be some conservatives out there who can make a logical case for their views, but when I see absolute rubbish like your cut-and-paste posted I have to think the poster is either extremely gullible or is entirely unconcerned with truth or honesty. As for the basic premise of your post, I think the greatest threat to American democracy is the ascendancy of cultural troglodytes who feel threatened by anyone who doesn't share their religious beliefs/social "values", have zero intellectual curiosity, and desperately want to return to an imagined America of somewhere between 1750 and 1950 when people who looked and acted just like they do held all the power. No amount of "American exceptionalism" will rescue a country that refuses to invest in its own people (for example by creating ever higher barriers to education) while grasping desperately to expensive but outmoded economic structures (the military/industrial complex) and technologies (gas powered transportation), when the rest of the world is recruiting their best and brightest for productive roles in economically and socially productive disciplines. Don_____________________________________ Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996) “Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GeorgiaDon 380 #10 July 25, 2011 Quote"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch." -Benjamin FranklinWhat is your alternative then? You get to pick who can vote, according to your "purity test"? Yeah, that'll work. Don_____________________________________ Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996) “Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,120 #11 July 25, 2011 >If Congress grants amnesty and citizenship to twenty million criminal invaders called >illegal's - and they vote - then we can say goodbye to the USA in fewer than five >years. Since that's how we BECAME the USA I tend to doubt it. >About some interesting facts concerning the last Presidential election: More interesting facts: Median IQ of Obama voters: 102 Median IQ of McCain voters: 96 Average divorce rate for conservative family values Texas: 4.1 per 1000 Average divorce rate for liberal gay-marryin' Massachusetts: 2.4 per 1000 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #12 July 25, 2011 QuoteActually 96% of black voters voted for Obama. Considering 95% of black voters voted for Gore in 2004, I think you'll have a hard time proving the overriding reason they voted for Obama was because he was black. You'll do better arguing that more black voters went to the polls because they finally had a candidate they could relate to. Of course, the OP has already implied that black people shouldn't be allowed to vote at all. How do you feel about that proposal? An easy argument to make is that Democrats had a huge push to get blacks to register to vote BECAUSE they knew they would vote for Obama. Easy to ignore the push by ACORN and other democratic sympathetic groups. I wonder what you would say if 96% of all white voters cast their ballots for McCain? http://www.census.gov/newsroom/releases/archives/voting/cb09-110.html Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 2 #13 July 25, 2011 Quote96% of blacks voted for Obama. Many blacks who voted for him did so BECAUSE he is black. The emotion of having a black President over-rode everything else and you know it. My devout Catholic, conservative Republican father in law has voted Republican in every presidential election. Oh, except for Jack Kennedy. What a shocker. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DanG 1 #14 July 25, 2011 I don't dispute whatsoever the fact that the Democrats tried hard to get blacks out to vote. That's just good politics. Are you implying that the Republicans don't try to get likely Republican voters out to vote? As I pointed out before, and you chose to ignore, blacks are very consistent Democratic voters. You're clinging to the idea that they voted for Obama because he was black. The facts seem to support the idea that they voted at all because there was a black candidate in the race. It will be interesting to see if Herman Cain gets the Republican nomination, if 96% of black voters vote for him. I find that highly unlikely. - Dan G Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #15 July 25, 2011 QuoteI don't dispute whatsoever the fact that the Democrats tried hard to get blacks out to vote. That's just good politics. Are you implying that the Republicans don't try to get likely Republican voters out to vote? As I pointed out before, and you chose to ignore, blacks are very consistent Democratic voters. You're clinging to the idea that they voted for Obama because he was black. The facts seem to support the idea that they voted at all because there was a black candidate in the race. It will be interesting to see if Herman Cain gets the Republican nomination, if 96% of black voters vote for him. I find that highly unlikely. Democrats specifically targeted registration of black voters because they knew that 96% would vote for Obama. Cain won't get the nomination because he is beginning to be perceived as a racist. Fairly or not, his comments about the mosque in Tennessee have cost him a huge amount of support within the Republican party. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DanG 1 #16 July 25, 2011 QuoteDemocrats specifically targeted registration of black voters because they knew that 96% would vote for Obama. No, they didn't target black voters because they knew 96% would vote for Obama. If that were the case, they would have targeted them at the same level in 2004. They targeted black voters in 2008 because they knew that they were more likely to actually go to the polls. The ones that went to the polls in 2004 voted Democratic at the same level as in 2008. Last time I checked, Al Gore was about as white as they come. More blacks went to the polls in 2008. You can call that racism if you want. I would say that black voters finally had a candidate they cared about, and thought would make a difference in their lives. We'll see if as many black voters show up in 2012. The percentage votes for Obama will probably still be about 96%. It's the sheer numbers that will make a difference. - Dan G Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpeedRacer 1 #17 July 25, 2011 Who cares what color people voted for who. As for the OP, first of all, we live in a constitutional republic, not a pure democracy. Secondly, in every country all through history people have been able to make arguments that everything is going to hell in a handbasket. Nothing different about today. There has always been, and always will be, pessimistic whiners with apparently credible arguments about why everything is going to hell. Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DanG 1 #18 July 25, 2011 QuoteWho cares what color people voted for who. The OP, apparently. - Dan G Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
devildog 0 #19 July 25, 2011 Quote More interesting facts: Median IQ of Obama voters: 102 Median IQ of McCain voters: 96 The way this term is going, I'm pretty sure those in the 102 camp will be deducted at least 10 points based on their 2008 pick alone :)You stop breathing for a few minutes and everyone jumps to conclusions. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #20 July 25, 2011 I think you will find the number of blacks who turn out in 2012 will be much lower than 2008. Many have become disenfranchised with Obama. They won't vote for a Republican, they will simply stay home. Especially if the economy continues to flounder and unemployment stays high. Unfortunately, blacks have been the hardest hit by the current economic conditions. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lefty 0 #21 July 25, 2011 QuoteQuote More interesting facts: Median IQ of Obama voters: 102 Median IQ of McCain voters: 96 The way this term is going, I'm pretty sure those in the 102 camp will be deducted at least 10 points based on their 2008 pick alone :) Only if they vote for him again. Everyone can be suckered once.Provoking a reaction isn't the same thing as saying something meaningful. -Calvin Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #22 July 25, 2011 HOLY FUCK do any of you people ever check SNOPES... that TRIPE has been floating around since 2000... and the weak of mind have only changed the names. http://www.snopes.com/politics/ballot/athenian.asp Someone sent me the same tripe over the weekend... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #23 July 25, 2011 QuoteSnopes could be your friend, should you decide to stop copying and pasting crap that has been circulating on the internet since the Bush/Gore election of 2000. Even so, the article is riddled with errors. It wasn't written by Professor Olson, "Alexander Tyler" is "Tytler" and he never wrote about the fall of the Athenian Republic (indeed, he never wrote anything attributed to him in your POS copy-and-paste), and most of the numbers given were false even following the Bush/Gore contest, and are even more unreal when applied to Obama. I'm sure there must be some conservatives out there who can make a logical case for their views, but when I see absolute rubbish like your cut-and-paste posted I have to think the poster is either extremely gullible or is entirely unconcerned with truth or honesty. As for the basic premise of your post, I think the greatest threat to American democracy is the ascendancy of cultural troglodytes who feel threatened by anyone who doesn't share their religious beliefs/social "values", have zero intellectual curiosity, and desperately want to return to an imagined America of somewhere between 1750 and 1950 when people who looked and acted just like they do held all the power. No amount of "American exceptionalism" will rescue a country that refuses to invest in its own people (for example by creating ever higher barriers to education) while grasping desperately to expensive but outmoded economic structures (the military/industrial complex) and technologies (gas powered transportation), when the rest of the world is recruiting their best and brightest for productive roles in economically and socially productive disciplines. Don Thanks Don... did you get this on in an email from some fellow skydivers over the weekend too??? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #24 July 25, 2011 QuoteQuoteActually 96% of black voters voted for Obama. Considering 95% of black voters voted for Gore in 2004, I think you'll have a hard time proving the overriding reason they voted for Obama was because he was black. You'll do better arguing that more black voters went to the polls because they finally had a candidate they could relate to. Of course, the OP has already implied that black people shouldn't be allowed to vote at all. How do you feel about that proposal? An easy argument to make is that Democrats had a huge push to get blacks to register to vote BECAUSE they knew they would vote for Obama. Easy to ignore the push by ACORN and other democratic sympathetic groups. I wonder what you would say if 96% of all white voters cast their ballots for McCain? http://www.census.gov/newsroom/releases/archives/voting/cb09-110.html Because most voters saw McCain as a bad deal..and TOTALLY GOAT FUCK STUPID when he let his little head choose his VP running mate.. womanizing... adulterer... oh.. that is not really important to the Family Values crowd... hey at least he just stuck to women. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #25 July 25, 2011 Quote Quote Obama was voted in by the inexperienced youth , minorities and socialist... This is offensive on many levels. Sorry But this statment is just plain fucking funnyNeed a tissue? Keep it up please Maybe someone will feel sorry for you"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
