maadmax 0
QuoteYou stated that you believe that God intervened and saved your child. Giving the enormous amount of suffering in Africa that is, only now, in the headlines, the vast number of children that are dying from starvation, with no end or hope in sight, why do you feel that a God would see your child as more important to save than the thousands who are dying of starvation? How about the large number of children who have suffered over the many years the world over? Are all of these children less important than yours in your God's eyes?
QuoteSo, what is/was your almighty, loving God's intentions when he turned his back on the millions of children who have been raped, abused, starved to death, enslaved, murdered... (the list is endless), over the many years? Were they only to have faith that this good guy in the sky will swoop down and smite their tormentors? Or, maybe all of the children who have suffered had no faith and what became of them was their punishment?
Good intentions in thought is only that, in thought. Without action, it is the delusion of a sick mind that a god would never leave or forsake us.
The horrific conditions that so many children have to endure, the world over, is evidence of that.
You guys fall back on that "God doesn't exist because he let innocent little Suzie die" BS all the time to justify your misunderstanding of it all
Show me where it says anywhere in any religion that God is supposed to come down daily and babysit every, or any, individual in the world. It's about your faith in him, not about his babysitting you.
"Oh lord, won't you buy me a color TV."
That loud *WHOOSH* is deafening!
My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239
Quote
Are you able to compehend the chain of posts leading to your original reply?Quote
I'm sure when you are not under the pressure of pride in an internet forum, you'd admit that there are some muslims who are more committed than christians, and some christians more commited that muslims....
...again, I find your bias quit remarkable.
No pressure, Babe. But I find it amazing that your own contradictory statements, when pointed out, go unanswered.
Now, if you want to talk about bizarre, ok…….
SO, I put this forth, again..... including, but not limitted to "I wasn't talking about Christians"
then go back to our exchanges in #321, 323 & 324 regarding Matthew, Muslims style of prayer and people preaching on corners. ....
even more bizarre . . . .
//////////////////
But why waste time bantering about biases and insignificant words? The big issue is that we disagree, yet, I do not try to sway you or your children, to my beliefs.
One more thing before I stop beating THIS DEAD HORSE.
These are excerpts from different instances where "God spoke to devout christians."
~~~~~~
A Texas woman who stoned two of her children to death and seriously injured a third on Mother's Day last year told psychiatrists she was driven to kill by a message from God and that she was sure they would rise again from the dead.
~~~~~~~
A Virginia man diagnosed with schizophrenia told reporters that he cut his 5-year-old son's head off to save him from the anti-Christ.
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Andrea Yates:
While in prison, Andrea stated she had considered killing the children for two years, adding that they thought she was not a good mother and claimed her sons were developing improperly. Yates told her jail psychiatrist, "It was the seventh deadly sin. My children weren't righteous. They stumbled because I was evil. The way I was raising them, they could never be saved. They were doomed to perish in the fires of hell." Yates also told her jail psychiatrist that Satan influenced her children and made the children more disobedient and told Psychiatrist Kids 'Didn't Do Things God Likes'.
What is the difference between Yates and Abraham?
Both heard voices from God and were told to kill their children, and both (would have) obliged very willingly.
Is the only difference that one happened during primitive times and the other one happened today? How come God's word is not pure in Andrea but is in Abraham?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
If I heard voices to tell me to kill my child, I would know I was crazy and seek help!
Michele Bachmann, God told her to run for congress and now, president.
Sweet!
I'm done.
These are excerpts from different instances where "God spoke to devout christians."
~~~~~~
A Texas woman who stoned two of her children to death and seriously injured a third on Mother's Day last year told psychiatrists she was driven to kill by a message from God and that she was sure they would rise again from the dead.
~~~~~~~
A Virginia man diagnosed with schizophrenia told reporters that he cut his 5-year-old son's head off to save him from the anti-Christ.
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Andrea Yates:
While in prison, Andrea stated she had considered killing the children for two years, adding that they thought she was not a good mother and claimed her sons were developing improperly. Yates told her jail psychiatrist, "It was the seventh deadly sin. My children weren't righteous. They stumbled because I was evil. The way I was raising them, they could never be saved. They were doomed to perish in the fires of hell." Yates also told her jail psychiatrist that Satan influenced her children and made the children more disobedient and told Psychiatrist Kids 'Didn't Do Things God Likes'.
What is the difference between Yates and Abraham?
Both heard voices from God and were told to kill their children, and both (would have) obliged very willingly.
Is the only difference that one happened during primitive times and the other one happened today? How come God's word is not pure in Andrea but is in Abraham?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
If I heard voices to tell me to kill my child, I would know I was crazy and seek help!
Michele Bachmann, God told her to run for congress and now, president.
Sweet!
I'm done.
jaybird18c 25
QuoteBoth heard voices from God and were told to kill their children, and both (would have) obliged very willingly.
Obviously, there are some psychological issues with some of the persons you mentioned. However, assuming a situation where the person "hears from God" in some way and they're not insane, one needs to consider the message. If the message is inconsistent with the Word of God then the message probably is not from God. Just because a person says they think they've heard from God does not mean they have. Check everything against Scripture.
Coreece 190
Quotethen go back to our exchanges in #321, 323 & 324
What about it babe?
Speak up...
Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are...
winsor 236
QuoteBoth heard voices from God and were told to kill their children, and both (would have) obliged very willingly.
Obviously, there are some psychological issues with some of the persons you mentioned. However, assuming a situation where the person "hears from God" in some way and they're not insane,...
"Hearing from god" defines insanity.
If one talks to an invisible friend, they are not too tigtly wrapped.
If it is a two-way conversation, they are psychotic.
Quote"Oh lord, won't you buy me a color TV."
That loud *WHOOSH* is deafening!
So.... what you are saying is, with God, all things are not possible.
But then, I made no mention of a color T.V.. I did, however, mention the suffering children that an almighty loving God who, without doubt, has turned his back on and surely has forsaken them to intervene on behalf of a child in America (which has been claimed.)
Now, go have your hearing checked, as I'm sure that whoosh was extremely detrimental to your auditory health (or possibly your ability to comprehend.)
"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young
maadmax 0
QuoteOne more thing before I stop beating THIS DEAD HORSE.
Sweet!
I'm done.
And there we have it, we walk away shaking our heads wondering why some people can't see the obvious. Until the next topic is posted of course.
jclalor 12
QuoteCheck everything against Scripture.
You would admit that not all Christians interpret Scripture the same? I'm sure that you will tell us, that you and your sect alone have been given the ability to correctly interpret the Bible.
So out of all the countless different Christian sects that try to convince us that they are the true Christians, you are it.
I would suggest anyone who thinks they hear God, are either not understanding their thought process or are Schizophrenic.
When you understand why you dismiss all of the other Gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.
jclalor 12
QuoteAdded: I heard this example in a hermaneutics class. "Philadelphia Freedom" by Elton John. The song sounds very patriotic. It sounds like it must have some sort of American patriotic/Liberty Bell kind of theme. To be honest, I thought that most of my life. However, in reality, the song was written in a time when women didn't make nearly as much as men in the workplace. There was a lack of equality. Elton John's friend, Billy Jean King (Pro tennis player) was winning championships and making a lot of money. She was, in Elton John's opinion, a shining example of the way things should be. She was also a lesbian making it even more symbolic. Equality for both women and homosexuals. Who would have thought it would be about that? You wouldn't know necessarily unless you really tried to understand what the author, Elton John, had in mind.
It's a very patriotic song. Your saying the song is unpatriotic because he is singing about women and gays wanting the same rights as everyone else?
What an outrage wanting equal rights in this country. First the colored folk and now the Gays?
The song was named after her tennis team, and I knew what the song was about when I was 13 in 1975.
A better example would be "Born in the USA" When Reagan used it in his campaign in 84, thinking it was Patriotic. The song was patriotic, but not for the reasons Reagan thought.
I always likes Greenwood's "stand up" live performances where all those right wingers 'Gladly stand up" in the comfort of a live performance and not at the recruiters office.
jaybird18c 25
So we agree that there should be generally accepted rules of interpretation and that we shouldn't just accept what a text "means to each individual" or use a text to demonstrate a person's point for which it was never intended by the author?
QuoteQuoteThey must not have prayed the right prayer, or something, right? Otherwise these passages would apply.
Matthew 7:7 Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:
8 For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.
9 Or what man is there of you, whom if his son ask bread, will he give him a stone?
10 Or if he ask a fish, will he give him a serpent?
11 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him?
Matthew 18:19 Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven.
Matthew 21:22 And all things, whatsoever ye shall ask in prayer, believing, ye shall receive.
You shoud really try and understand the author's intent before ripping off verses and misapplying them. Do you think it's important to know what the author is trying to convey rather than making up your own meaning and applying it to their work? Don't you think that would be the more accurate and resposible way of handling a text?
Added: I heard this example in a hermaneutics class. "Philadelphia Freedom" by Elton John. The song sounds very patriotic. It sounds like it must have some sort of American patriotic/Liberty Bell kind of theme. To be honest, I thought that most of my life. However, in reality, the song was written in a time when women didn't make nearly as much as men in the workplace. There was a lack of equality. Elton John's friend, Billy Jean King (Pro tennis player) was winning championships and making a lot of money. She was, in Elton John's opinion, a shining example of the way things should be. She was also a lesbian making it even more symbolic. Equality for both women and homosexuals. Who would have thought it would be about that? You wouldn't know necessarily unless you really tried to understand what the author, Elton John, had in mind.
Alright, rather than imply that I'm lazy or stupid for not having the same understanding of the text as you, why don't you enlighten me to the real meaning of Matthew 7: 7-10. Do you not think many of those African children were beleivers? Do you suppose they were not praying for food, or not to be harmed? How does that reconcile with the text.
What you say is reflective of your knowledge...HOW ya say it is reflective of your experience. Airtwardo
Someone's going to be spanked! Hopefully, it will be me. Skymama
Someone's going to be spanked! Hopefully, it will be me. Skymama
QuoteDo you not think many of those African children were beleivers? Do you suppose they were not praying for food, or not to be harmed? How does that reconcile with the text.
He has yet to give an answer to the question that I asked of him on this subject.
I wouldn't hold my breath waiting.
Honestly, I never expect an answer from the Christian who claim to have an intimate relationship with a God.
"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young
[replyNow, was this a communication from God? I don’t know for sure but it seems that way. My wife and her mother are very convinced.
Jaybird that was a very touching witness.
I can see that you love your child very much.
Let me ask you a question.
Do you love every child as much?
Do you love Muslim children as much as your own?
If a Muslim child was to take the life of your own child would you still love that Muslim child?
Because that is what Jesus taught us we need to do.
"Love your neighbor as yourself" , He said.
But you are a part of a military machine which has slaughtered at least tens of thousands of innocents , possibly hundreds of thousands?
A machine that tortures innocents?
Torture? Torture, Jaybird..?
As a Christian you can be a supporting part of this?
Love your neighbor as yourself.
Peace.
jclalor 12
***
Since none of us lived 2000 years ago, we will never know the context of the bible. If Christians were fighting with each other over interpretation before, during, and after the bible was written, How could we even pretend to claim we know the true message today.
That's not even adding in the complication that Every early manuscript, of every Gospel we have, is a copy of a copy of a copy. The early manuscripts were changed by so many people, for so many reasons, we have absolute proof of that.
QuoteSo we agree that there should be generally accepted rules of interpretation and that we shouldn't just accept what a text "means to each individual" or use a text to demonstrate a person's point for which it was never intended by the author?
Since none of us lived 2000 years ago, we will never know the context of the bible. If Christians were fighting with each other over interpretation before, during, and after the bible was written, How could we even pretend to claim we know the true message today.
That's not even adding in the complication that Every early manuscript, of every Gospel we have, is a copy of a copy of a copy. The early manuscripts were changed by so many people, for so many reasons, we have absolute proof of that.
***So telling Abraham to sacrifice his child IS consistent with principles derived from Scripture?
Well, back up a second.
It wasn't Abrahams' child.. explaining his lack of reluctance and why Sarah was kinda pissed .
See, previous to this near incident ,and this is history.. this is written, at about 1500 BC , Abram and Sari traveled to the bread basket of Egypt and continue on to the political and esoteric captial at Thebes. Abram passed off Sari to the Pharoah and everyone else as his sister.
The Pharoah(Tuthmosis II ) took Sari who was very beautiful as one of his lesser wives.
About 5 years later Abram and Sari are initiated into the White Lodge and change their names to Abraham and Sarah in recognition of their symbolic rebirth as new people.
They then reveal to Pharoah that all along they have been husband and wife.
Pharoah exiles them from Eygypt but not without a "parting gift" later named Issac.
They return to Canaan where Sarah delivers child.
Abraham instinctively knows this ain't his kid (hell he knew the Pharoah was bangin' his wife) and suddenly decides that God is talkin' to him!
God wants him to kill little Issac !
Thing is there is something about walking through the beauty of nature.
It has a calming effect on men.
{ One treatment the VA has to deal with victims of PTSD is to send them off with a group on nature getaways involving stress busters such as hiking, mountain biking and kayaking.}
So after the long hike through Nature , Abraham calms down and realizes that he ain't so pissed any more . He's also thinking about Sarah and how pissed she'll be if Issac isn't alive when thjey return.
Cooler heads prevail .
maadmax 0
Since none of us lived 2000 years ago, we will never know the context of the bible. If Christians were fighting with each other over interpretation before, during, and after the bible was written, How could we even pretend to claim we know the true message today.
That's not even adding in the complication that Every early manuscript, of every Gospel we have, is a copy of a copy of a copy. The early manuscripts were changed by so many people, for so many reasons, we have absolute proof of that.
That's not even adding in the complication that Every early manuscript, of every Gospel we have, is a copy of a copy of a copy. The early manuscripts were changed by so many people, for so many reasons, we have absolute proof of that.
Not a problem unless one is looking for excuses to reject God. The message still comes through loud and clear. We are sinners and we need a Savior to neutralize the penalty of our sins and restore us to God.
...
The horrific conditions that so many children have to endure, the world over, is evidence of that.
I believe that even in suffering there is hope. We all shall suffer and die, but in God there will always be hope. But as many of you point out repeatedly, some despise hope and would much rather wallow in their despair.