marks2065 0 #226 September 20, 2011 QuoteQuotehow do you figure, did everyone not enjoy the benifits of our national defence? Enjoy? Well, you certainly have a strange way of stating things, but no. I, for one, did not enjoy most of the "benifits" of our national defense system. Certainly not to the extent the military industrial complex did. The weapons manufacturers became billionaires, as did the contractors like Black Water and the military supply chain like Exxon. The national defense I enjoyed wasn't located in Afghanistan or Iraq. The national defense system I enjoyed was comprised a tiny fraction of the defense budget. QuoteDid everyone not use our interstate highway system? Again, no and certainly not to the extent commercial operations like the shipping industry does. Me? I barely use the interstate highway system at all compared to say, FedEx. Quotehow about our judicial system? I barely use that either. The only time I've been in a court is to fight a traffic ticket and serve on a jury. There are entire companies however, whose entire business model is based on lawsuits. Them tying up the court system is an enormous drain on society and of absolutely no benefit to me. Quotewere people kept safe in the skies? Yep, but I know people that have never been on a plane in their lives. Meanwhile there are others that make their living there. QuoteYou are correct that it is not completely equal, the less you make generally the more you take, like welfare and earned income credits ect, but those people are getting the bigger stake and not paying for it. I really don't believe you're malicious in your comments, but I do believe you've overlooked corporate welfare by a LARGE margin. It's absolutely not equal, but in ways you've never considered. since you are not speeking german or some other language I think you have benefitted from national defence. if you buy any product from a store you have used the transportation system (how did your computer get to you?). If any criminals have been taken off your street and nieghborhood you have benifitted from the legal system. so you have used the fed gov for things just like everyone else, therefore you, just like everyone else should pay your fair share. These are the common things that all people use no matter what you think. the rich (250k or more )pay for 30-40% of this bill. doesn't seem fair does it? Why does someone that makes $40k not pay anything? what is their fare share? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,113 #227 September 20, 2011 >since you are not speeking german or some other language I think you have >benefitted from national defence. You're right! We should all pay for national defense. >if you buy any product from a store you have used the transportation system (how did >your computer get to you?). You're right! We should all pay for our roads. >If any criminals have been taken off your street and nieghborhood you have benifitted >from the legal system. You're right! We should all pay for the justice system. >So you have used the fed gov for things just like everyone else, therefore you, just >like everyone else should pay your fair share. OK. Let's divide total costs for all that stuff (3.4 trillion) by the number of taxpayers in the US (130 million.) We'll give 2 year olds and the 85 year old retirees a break here. That's a $26,000 bill to every taxpayer in the US. Now let's see. In the US, 28% of taxpayers make under $26,000 a year. So they'll have to go to prison when they don't pay. (No freeloaders! They got the benefit, they must pay.) They could steal to pay their tax bills, I suppose, but we'll catch them. Won't cost too much more. So that's 34 million people in prison. It costs about $24,000 a year to house those prisoners. So that's another 800 billion to pay. Divided by the remaining taxpayers that's another $8000 bill for each person, each year. Hmm. But an additional 10% of taxpayers make under $33,000 a year, so they'll be going to jail too. And now we lost out on the $800 billion that we can't collect, cause they're in jail alread. So that means another 18% of the population will be . . . Hmm. This isn't working out so well. All those poor people we were going to get to pay "their fair share" are in jail, not making any money for us! Maybe people should pay a PORTION of what they make, pro-rated so that those who can afford it pay more. Fewer people in prison that way! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dreamdancer 0 #228 September 21, 2011 QuoteQuotethey've also got the money don't forget Smile so 'tis only fair... Your idea of "fair" does not seem to jive with reality. So if you and your wife have a car and I need one it is "fair" to take one of yours? the rich have been taking stuff off me and my family for many years now - same as from you... (time for them to pay back)stay away from moving propellers - they bite blue skies from thai sky adventures good solid response-provoking keyboarding Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #229 September 21, 2011 QuoteQuoteQuotethey've also got the money don't forget Smile so 'tis only fair... Your idea of "fair" does not seem to jive with reality. So if you and your wife have a car and I need one it is "fair" to take one of yours? the rich have been taking stuff off me and my family for many years now - same as from you... (time for them to pay back) Aww, here is a tissue..."America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dreamdancer 0 #230 September 21, 2011 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuotethey've also got the money don't forget Smile so 'tis only fair... Your idea of "fair" does not seem to jive with reality. So if you and your wife have a car and I need one it is "fair" to take one of yours? the rich have been taking stuff off me and my family for many years now - same as from you... (time for them to pay back) Aww, here is a tissue... now that you've used it - put it in the bin...stay away from moving propellers - they bite blue skies from thai sky adventures good solid response-provoking keyboarding Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #231 September 21, 2011 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuotethey've also got the money don't forget Smile so 'tis only fair... Your idea of "fair" does not seem to jive with reality. So if you and your wife have a car and I need one it is "fair" to take one of yours? the rich have been taking stuff off me and my family for many years now - same as from you... (time for them to pay back) Aww, here is a tissue... now that you've used it - put it in the bin... You have been delt such a bad hand of cards havent you . All those working people who have more than you It is such a shame you were born so poor And then to make it worse, all those evil rich people have stolen from you and your family Life is so cruel Now maybe you can whimper to some government long enough they will listen to you and steel the money those evil rich people have and give it to you Such a moral stance"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
marks2065 0 #232 September 21, 2011 Quote>since you are not speeking german or some other language I think you have >benefitted from national defence. You're right! We should all pay for national defense. >if you buy any product from a store you have used the transportation system (how did >your computer get to you?). You're right! We should all pay for our roads. >If any criminals have been taken off your street and nieghborhood you have benifitted >from the legal system. You're right! We should all pay for the justice system. >So you have used the fed gov for things just like everyone else, therefore you, just >like everyone else should pay your fair share. OK. Let's divide total costs for all that stuff (3.4 trillion) by the number of taxpayers in the US (130 million.) We'll give 2 year olds and the 85 year old retirees a break here. That's a $26,000 bill to every taxpayer in the US. Now let's see. In the US, 28% of taxpayers make under $26,000 a year. So they'll have to go to prison when they don't pay. (No freeloaders! They got the benefit, they must pay.) They could steal to pay their tax bills, I suppose, but we'll catch them. Won't cost too much more. So that's 34 million people in prison. It costs about $24,000 a year to house those prisoners. So that's another 800 billion to pay. Divided by the remaining taxpayers that's another $8000 bill for each person, each year. Hmm. But an additional 10% of taxpayers make under $33,000 a year, so they'll be going to jail too. And now we lost out on the $800 billion that we can't collect, cause they're in jail alread. So that means another 18% of the population will be . . . Hmm. This isn't working out so well. All those poor people we were going to get to pay "their fair share" are in jail, not making any money for us! Maybe people should pay a PORTION of what they make, pro-rated so that those who can afford it pay more. Fewer people in prison that way! You do like to spin things, except 3.4 tril is not for just those progects. We need to eliminate all gov money for special interest groups, eliminate tax loop holes and lower the tax rates. budget should be about 2.5 tril. There are way to many unneeded programs wasting money. The rich don't mind paying more, they mind paying all. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #233 September 21, 2011 Hmmm Bill Clinton talking to WHO???? Newmax Oh the shame of it all And what did he say? QuoteFormer President Bill Clinton tells Newsmax that Washington should not raise taxes until the slumping economy is turned around — and says President Obama’s plan to increase taxes on the wealthy won’t solve the debt problem. QuoteClinton acknowledges that the worldwide economic downturn has made it more difficult to raise money for his foundation. “But we’re doing well,” he is quick to add. “We’re going to have $6 billion worth of commitments here over a 5-to-10-year period, and they’ll affect another 100 million people above the people we’re already helping. That’s pretty good.” President Obama this week unveiled his plan to raise taxes on the wealthiest Americans in an effort to reduce the deficit, even though he could be sure that Republicans would reject the plan. Clinton says Obama’s whole approach to the deficit is “a little confusing.” He explains: “In the speech that the president gave to Congress, he didn’t propose any new taxes. The speech was $250 billion in tax cuts, $250 billion in spending over a period of two to three years. It focused mostly on a rather innovative set of payroll tax cuts and incentives to hire people. “I personally don’t believe we ought to be raising taxes or cutting spending until we get this economy off the ground. If we cut government spending, which I normally would be very inclined to do when the deficit’s this big, with interest rates already near zero you can’t get the benefits out of it. “So what I’d like to see them do is come up with a bipartisan approach, starting with the payroll tax cuts because they have the biggest return. “Then what I’d like to see is an effort made at a bipartisan resolution of the banking home mortgage crisis. “One of the things that President Reagan did with the Democratic Congress in the early 1980s that never gets any discussion is the way they set up this system to purge the debt overhang from the savings and loan collapse. It was unpopular but it had to be done. And as soon as we flushed it out there was a big increase in investment. “So that’s what we need to do here with this home deal. I don’t think you can tax or cut taxes, I don’t think you can spend or not spend enough to get America back to a full employment economy until we flush that debt. “What I would like to say to the president and Speaker Boehner is, O.K., you both have your deal. Go work it out. Meanwhile focus on putting American back to work because it just confused Americans. Americans lost the fact that whatever you feel about this millionaire surcharge, it won’t solve the problem.” http://www.newsmax.com/Headline/bill-clinton-obama-taxes/2011/09/20/id/411720"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,147 #234 September 21, 2011 Quote QuoteFormer President Bill Clinton tells Newsmax that Washington should not raise taxes until the slumping economy is turned around — and says President Obama’s plan to increase taxes on the wealthy won’t solve the debt problem. He's right, it won't. And calling on Warren Buffett to voluntarily send more money won't solve the debt problem. And asking the poorest 25% to pay more won't solve the debt problem. Cutting all foreign aid won't solve the debt problem, nor will eliminating the NEA, NEH and Department of Education.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #235 September 21, 2011 QuoteQuote QuoteFormer President Bill Clinton tells Newsmax that Washington should not raise taxes until the slumping economy is turned around — and says President Obama’s plan to increase taxes on the wealthy won’t solve the debt problem. He's right, it won't. And calling on Warren Buffett to voluntarily send more money won't solve the debt problem. And asking the poorest 25% to pay more won't solve the debt problem. Cutting all foreign aid won't solve the debt problem, nor will eliminating the NEA, NEH and Department of Education. And raising any taxes will make it worse Lowering taxes and eliminating a mountian of regulations would turn things around in a hurry"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #236 September 21, 2011 Got a question for you You seem to agree that raising taxes during an economic down turn is a bad idea But you indicated that you think taxes should be raised when the economy is good or better How do you square that? Taxing at either time would hurt the economy. You so much as admit that by supporting no tax increases now ?"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DaVinci 0 #237 September 21, 2011 Quotethe rich have been taking stuff off me and my family for many years now - same as from you... (time for them to pay back) So if you have two cars and Bob has none, he IS fine to take yours? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DaVinci 0 #238 September 21, 2011 QuoteAnd calling on Warren Buffett to voluntarily send more money won't solve the debt problem. It will help more than not doing it. QuoteAnd asking the poorest 25% to pay more won't solve the debt problem. It will help more than not doing it. QuoteCutting all foreign aid won't solve the debt problem It will help more than not doing it. Just raising taxes on the "Rich" won't solve the debt problem And taxes will have to be raised... But only an idiot would raise taxes before trying to cut spending. This congress has shown they will spend even when they do not have the money.... so just handing them more money will not cut spending... And spending needs to be cut. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #239 September 21, 2011 Quote Honestly. If it's a viable technology and can compete with oil, it can do so on its own..[RED] but we they must also be playing on the same field - penalizing one industry preferentially is just as bad subsidizing an industry preferentially[/RED] . . I want my money spent on research for things that will work rather than propping up things that can only work if subsidized. I really like both of these comments. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,147 #240 September 21, 2011 QuoteGot a question for you You seem to agree that raising taxes during an economic down turn is a bad idea ? Nope - I think taxes need to be raised and spending cut, right now. The first place to look for spending cuts is our bloated military, and the first place to look for tax revenues is from the people who benefited most from Bush's stupid tax cuts.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #241 September 21, 2011 QuoteQuoteGot a question for you You seem to agree that raising taxes during an economic down turn is a bad idea ? Nope - I think taxes need to be raised and spending cut, right now. The first place to look for spending cuts is our bloated military, and the first place to look for tax revenues is from the people who benefited most from Bush's stupid tax cuts. Seems you missed all the facts as to who pay how much Intentionally I am sure"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,147 #242 September 21, 2011 Quote Quote Quote Got a question for you You seem to agree that raising taxes during an economic down turn is a bad idea ? Nope - I think taxes need to be raised and spending cut, right now. The first place to look for spending cuts is our bloated military, and the first place to look for tax revenues is from the people who benefited most from Bush's stupid tax cuts. Seems you missed all the facts as to who pay how much I suspect I am far better informed than you are - about most things.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #243 September 21, 2011 Quote Quote Quote Quote Got a question for you You seem to agree that raising taxes during an economic down turn is a bad idea ? Nope - I think taxes need to be raised and spending cut, right now. The first place to look for spending cuts is our bloated military, and the first place to look for tax revenues is from the people who benefited most from Bush's stupid tax cuts. Seems you missed all the facts as to who pay how much I suspect I am far better informed than you are - about most things. Your arogance is very obvious"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,147 #244 September 21, 2011 Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote Got a question for you You seem to agree that raising taxes during an economic down turn is a bad idea ? Nope - I think taxes need to be raised and spending cut, right now. The first place to look for spending cuts is our bloated military, and the first place to look for tax revenues is from the people who benefited most from Bush's stupid tax cuts. Seems you missed all the facts as to who pay how much I suspect I am far better informed than you are - about most things. Your arogance is very obvious I spell and punctuate better than you do, too.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #245 September 22, 2011 Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote Got a question for you You seem to agree that raising taxes during an economic down turn is a bad idea ? Nope - I think taxes need to be raised and spending cut, right now. The first place to look for spending cuts is our bloated military, and the first place to look for tax revenues is from the people who benefited most from Bush's stupid tax cuts. Seems you missed all the facts as to who pay how much I suspect I am far better informed than you are - about most things. Your arogance is very obvious I spell and punctuate better than you do, too. Ya U rally drill in on what is impotant "America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dreamdancer 0 #246 September 22, 2011 QuoteU rally drill in on what is impotant what is really important to you seems to be the content of your navel... (keep looking you might find something there)stay away from moving propellers - they bite blue skies from thai sky adventures good solid response-provoking keyboarding Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coreece 190 #247 September 22, 2011 QuoteQuoteU rally drill in on what is impotant what is really important to you seems to be the content of your navel... (keep looking you might find something there) Hell ya...a round of fuzzy navels for everybody! Put it on DD's tab!Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dreamdancer 0 #248 September 22, 2011 QuoteElizabeth Warren on the debt crisis, taxing the rich, the myth of class warfare and what the rest of us paid for. She is lucidity itself. I hear all this, you know, “Well, this is class warfare, this is whatever.”—No! There is nobody in this country who got rich on his own. Nobody. You built a factory out there—good for you! But I want to be clear. You moved your goods to market on the roads the rest of us paid for. You hired workers the rest of us paid to educate. You were safe in your factory because of police forces and fire forces that the rest of us paid for. You didn’t have to worry that maurauding bands would come and seize everything at your factory, and hire someone to protect against this, because of the work the rest of us did. Now look, you built a factory and it turned into something terrific, or a great idea—God bless. Keep a big hunk of it. But part of the underlying social contract is you take a hunk of that and pay forward for the next kid who comes along. http://www.commondreams.org/further/2011/09/21-7stay away from moving propellers - they bite blue skies from thai sky adventures good solid response-provoking keyboarding Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
